Last edited by nukchebi0 (2007-07-19 22:31:37)
Because a lot of Palestinians were expelled from their homes and the Israeli's did a lot of bad things after WW2...nukchebi0 wrote:
Why were so many Arab nations angry at the creation of a Israeli state after WWII? I don't get it because Israel had existed as a state much earlier in history. It was Israeli territory originally, so why should it have not been then?
That, and because even though the Israeli's owned the land many generations ago, the Arabs were occupying it when it was stolen. It's not the fault of the Arabs who lived there that they lived on conquered territory. And it's (in their mind) not fair that their land was stolen from them. (Even though like you said it belonged to the Israelis long before) Personally I think the Arabs have a valid claim, because a similar example would be if Italy began taking over most of Europe and North Africa because it had belonged to Rome in the past. Another example could be if the Mongols wanted to reconquer all of Asia, or if Native Americans wanted to reclaim North America.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Because a lot of Palestinians were expelled from their homes and the Israeli's did a lot of bad things after WW2...nukchebi0 wrote:
Why were so many Arab nations angry at the creation of a Israeli state after WWII? I don't get it because Israel had existed as a state much earlier in history. It was Israeli territory originally, so why should it have not been then?
Yes, but all your examples cite present day countries wishing to regain past lands that were conquered in addition to the homeland of the people who conquered. That is, past past imperial territory, not past home territory. Rome started on the Italian peninsula, and then began conquering other lands which were owned by other people. The Mongols were likewise. They started out of Mongolia and conquered much of Asia, which was settled, and thus the homeland, of other people. It is fair now that these people own this land, and the descendents of Genghis Khan or Emperor Constatine's people have no claim to it. However, Israel was trying to regain its homeland, which had been conquered by other people. It seems even more fair, in this regard, that the Israelis got it back.Havok wrote:
That, and because even though the Israeli's owned the land many generations ago, the Arabs were occupying it when it was stolen. It's not the fault of the Arabs who lived there that they lived on conquered territory. And it's (in their mind) not fair that their land was stolen from them. (Even though like you said it belonged to the Israelis long before) Personally I think the Arabs have a valid claim, because a similar example would be if Italy began taking over most of Europe and North Africa because it had belonged to Rome in the past. Another example could be if the Mongols wanted to reconquer all of Asia, or if Native Americans wanted to reclaim North America.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Because a lot of Palestinians were expelled from their homes and the Israeli's did a lot of bad things after WW2...nukchebi0 wrote:
Why were so many Arab nations angry at the creation of a Israeli state after WWII? I don't get it because Israel had existed as a state much earlier in history. It was Israeli territory originally, so why should it have not been then?
Current Israel territory isn't jew homelandnukchebi0 wrote:
However, Israel was trying to regain its homeland, which had been conquered by other people. It seems even more fair, in this regard, that the Israelis got it back.
Edit: The Native American example is valid, but the others aren't.
Proof please. And if so, what is "jew homeland".Longbow wrote:
Current Israel territory isn't jew homelandnukchebi0 wrote:
However, Israel was trying to regain its homeland, which had been conquered by other people. It seems even more fair, in this regard, that the Israelis got it back.
Edit: The Native American example is valid, but the others aren't.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-07-20 02:03:59)
You can't just expect to get land back because you were there first, that reason has rarely worked in any circumstance except for some treaties signed in NA for native land. We kind of screwed them there. >_>nukchebi0 wrote:
Why were so many Arab nations angry at the creation of a Israeli state after WWII? I don't get it because Israel had existed as a state much earlier in history. It was Israeli territory originally, so why should it have not been then?
Edit: Sorry about the title. I was lazy. Thanks to the moderator who fixed it.
Perhaps if the jews had stayed and not pussied out when the Romans started oppressing them this problem would not exist today. The Irish didn't just wholesale ditch Ireland when the Brits invaded.Reject_Wolf wrote:
You can't just expect to get land back because you were there first, that reason has rarely worked in any circumstance except for some treaties signed in NA for native land. We kind of screwed them there. >_>nukchebi0 wrote:
Why were so many Arab nations angry at the creation of a Israeli state after WWII? I don't get it because Israel had existed as a state much earlier in history. It was Israeli territory originally, so why should it have not been then?
Edit: Sorry about the title. I was lazy. Thanks to the moderator who fixed it.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-07-20 02:10:35)
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-07-20 02:14:02)
You sound rather anti-Israel in general here, like you don't even believe Israel deserves to exist.CameronPoe wrote:
The reason:
- Germany decided that they wanted to wipe every last jew from the face of the planet.
- Germany get defeated in WWII. It transpires that they killed 6 million jews. The world feels sorry for jews.
- The United Nations decide that Germany must pay for their crimes and therefore the overwhelmingly arab region of Palestine (originally called Cana'an), an ex-Ottoman empire province which had nothing to do with Germany, is selected as a location for a jewish state.
- The UN votes on the proposition with far flung countries like New Zealand being given a say in what will no doubt detrimentally impact on Palestinian arabs - nice and fair. The motion is passed.
- The arabs rightly disagree with this being imposed on them and the arab v jewish immigrant (the British had been irresponsibly allowing jewish immigration to Palestine since WWI, when they should have been safeguarding the citizens of the region they were tasked with administering) tit-for-tat violence and terrorism (on both sides) ratchets up until the Brits withdraw. Acts like the Jewish bombing of the King David hotel make Britain realise that they can no longer control the situation (kinda like Iraq).
- Hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians flee their homes thinking that they will return within weeks once the fighting has stopped. Little do they know that they will never see their homes, farms, businesses or properties again - Israel has taken them all and won't give them back.
The Jews didn't pussy out.CameronPoe wrote:
Perhaps if the jews had stayed and not pussied out when the Romans started oppressing them this problem would not exist today. The Irish didn't just wholesale ditch Ireland when the Brits invaded.Reject_Wolf wrote:
You can't just expect to get land back because you were there first, that reason has rarely worked in any circumstance except for some treaties signed in NA for native land. We kind of screwed them there. >_>nukchebi0 wrote:
Why were so many Arab nations angry at the creation of a Israeli state after WWII? I don't get it because Israel had existed as a state much earlier in history. It was Israeli territory originally, so why should it have not been then?
Edit: Sorry about the title. I was lazy. Thanks to the moderator who fixed it.
"You abandon it, you lose it" - I'm sorry but they had no right to demand a state in Palestine. Perhaps a state carved out of Germany but no Palestine. Your 'it was theirs years ago' argument is redundant given the fact that prior to any Jewish kingdom there it was part of the Egyptian empire: perhaps we should give it back to Egypt?nukchebi0 wrote:
You sound rather anti-Israel in general here, like you don't even believe Israel deserves to exist.
The "overwhemingly Arab" region of Palastine referred to above was also called Canaan, and was the original territory of Israel. It makes sense this area was selected. It used to be theirs. Not Arab territory, but Israeli territory. Do the jewish people not deserve back what was theirs?
Edit: Or did I misinterpret horribly and are you just pointing out that Irsrael could have handled the transition better by ensuring smoother eviction of Palestian citizens?
Ever heard of Masada? Ever heard of the jewish diaspora? Any idea why Europe had more than 6 million jews in it in the 1930s?nukchebi0 wrote:
The Jews didn't pussy out.CameronPoe wrote:
Perhaps if the jews had stayed and not pussied out when the Romans started oppressing them this problem would not exist today. The Irish didn't just wholesale ditch Ireland when the Brits invaded.Reject_Wolf wrote:
You can't just expect to get land back because you were there first, that reason has rarely worked in any circumstance except for some treaties signed in NA for native land. We kind of screwed them there. >_>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_rebellion
Oh please...sergeriver wrote:
I feel this topic could get closed, coz some mods don't like Israel threads, even when the topic isn't about Israel.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=81004
Courtesy of badhq.
Last edited by Cerpin_Taxt (2007-07-20 04:27:55)
Wow, a fan. Sorry, but we don't accept people from the JD.Cerpin_Taxt wrote:
Oh please...sergeriver wrote:
I feel this topic could get closed, coz some mods don't like Israel threads, even when the topic isn't about Israel.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=81004
Courtesy of badhq.
Could it have been closed because you have made like 40 Israel threads!? (this list doesn't include any of your Israel threads from the past month...God only knows how long it would be if it did)
How to Achieve Peace for Dummies
47% of Americans Think Israel is Justified in Killing Civilians
The Real Job of the IDF
Does Israel want the rockets to stop?
Wouldn't You Hate Them Too if You Were Living There?
The Israeli SOLUTION to the Palestinian Problem
Jews Want Israel to Raise its Moral Standard
Should Olmert Resign?
Is this Fighting Terrorism or Supporting it?
Jerusalem Should Be Declared Capital of the World
It's All About Education
Is Retaliation the Solution?
A Nuke Would Be Nicer
Israel Used Palestinian Kids as Human Shields
Two-Thirds of Palestinians Want Peace Settlement
Israel Nukes and the Refusal to Sign the NPT Go Unpunished
Palestinians: scapegoats for Hitler's Failures?
They steal your home: what would you do?
Israel Won't Deal with the New Palestinian Government
Winds of Change?
Israel leaving the Occupied Territories
I am Israel
Interesting Video About .s.a.l
Palestine & Israel Discussion Thread
247 People Gazassinated Since June
First Step to Achieve Peace: US Incredible Opportunity
Global Leaders Call for Action on Arab-Israeli Settlement
How Many More People Should Israel kill?
Isn't it outrageous?
Could Israel be anti-semite?
Is Israel fucking with the world?
Should Israel negotiate with Hezbollah?
How 'd you solve the conflict between Israel and muslin countries?
No. But since you are obviously so much smarter than me, I am sure you could tell me why.CameronPoe wrote:
Ever heard of Masada? Ever heard of the jewish diaspora? Any idea why Europe had more than 6 million jews in it in the 1930s?nukchebi0 wrote:
The Jews didn't pussy out.CameronPoe wrote:
Perhaps if the jews had stayed and not pussied out when the Romans started oppressing them this problem would not exist today. The Irish didn't just wholesale ditch Ireland when the Brits invaded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_rebellion
I see why. They definitely should have ensured a smoother, less disruptive relocation of Palestinian people.CameronPoe wrote:
"You abandon it, you lose it" - I'm sorry but they had no right to demand a state in Palestine. Perhaps a state carved out of Germany but no Palestine. Your 'it was theirs years ago' argument is redundant given the fact that prior to any Jewish kingdom there it was part of the Egyptian empire: perhaps we should give it back to Egypt?nukchebi0 wrote:
You sound rather anti-Israel in general here, like you don't even believe Israel deserves to exist.
The "overwhemingly Arab" region of Palastine referred to above was also called Canaan, and was the original territory of Israel. It makes sense this area was selected. It used to be theirs. Not Arab territory, but Israeli territory. Do the jewish people not deserve back what was theirs?
Edit: Or did I misinterpret horribly and are you just pointing out that Irsrael could have handled the transition better by ensuring smoother eviction of Palestian citizens?
The UN Decree did not have any clause in it at all whatsoever about evicting Palestinians or exchanging populations.
Today Israel is a reality and those born into what I view in the context of 1948 as an illegal state are blameless - their zionist ancestors are to blame for their fate. As such I believe in a two state solution with Israel alongside a 1967 bordered Palestine. I'm just trying to show you why Israel is viewed by many as an abherration, especially in the arab world which had to bear the horrible brunt of it.
Why on earth should the Palestinians have been relocated? If someone told you tomorrow that the UN decided your house and business was being given to a Mexican immigrant would you not regard yourself as having been done an injustice?nukchebi0 wrote:
I see why. They definitely should have ensured a smoother, less disruptive relocation of Palestinian people.
I agree. We just need the Holoship from Star Trek: Insurrection to put them all on.nukchebi0 wrote:
I see why. They definitely should have ensured a smoother, less disruptive relocation of Palestinian people.