sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

Karama wrote:

Since the outbreak of the second Palestinian Intifada in September 2000, until late January 2007, the Israeli army has killed 5,050 Palestinian men, women and children, wounded 49,760 others and detained 10,4000 others, a report by the Palestinian Authority-run 'Palestinian State Information Service' has revealed.
The report, which was prepared by the Palestinian National Information Center, part of the PSIS, showed that 351 Palestinian women have been killed, 150 patients have died at checkpoints and 66 others have been killed due to beating by Israeli settlers. 36 medical staff have been killed, 9 members of the press, and 220 sportsmen.
According to the report, the number of Palestinians detained by the Israeli army authorities has risen to 10,400 including 553 detained prior to the outbreak of the Intifada.
Among the prisoners there have been 1,150 suffering from chronic diseases, 1,175 students, 330 under the age of 18, 106 teachers and 118 female prisoners.
In terms of damage to Palestinian public buildings, the report states that 645 civil and security installations have been damaged, 72,437 houses have been partially and completely damaged until July 31, 2006.
12 Palestinian schools and universities had been sealed off by the Israeli authorities up to August, 8, 2006. 359 schools had been shelled and 43 schools had been turned into military outposts, according to PSIS's data.
848 students and educational staff were also shot dead by the Israeli army during the reporting period and 4,792 were wounded.
As for Palestinian farmland, until July 31, 2006 , the report states that 13,572,896 trees were uprooted, 784 stores demolished, 15,549 bee hives and 1,360 water wells destroyed, and 207 farmers' houses demolished.
Concerning unemployment, the report stated that 30.3 % of the Palestinian workforce has been unemployed, totalling some 288,300 persons, until September 30, 2006. At the same time, ISIS says the poverty rate across the occupied Palestinian territories has reached 70%, according to data gathered until the third quarter of 2006.
As for Israeli violations against journalists, the report recorded 1,147 attacks.
The report also recorded that the Israeli army has erected 5,001 checkpoints since October 1, 2001 .
The report concluded that a total of 247,291 dunums of Palestinian-owned lands has been confiscated for the construction of the separation wall in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.
Karama: is a newly established non-governmental organization situated in Deheishe Refugee Camp near the West Bank city of Bethlehem.

Last edited by sergeriver (2007-05-07 17:51:58)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6557
http://www.btselem.org/english/Publicat … bidden.asp

Interesting reading from the ISRAELI human rights group B'tselem....
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6530|Global Command
Sweet feathery Jesus

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/feisal1.html

In early 1919, King Faisal, then the only recognized Arab leader in the world, executed a treaty with Chaim Weizmann adopting the understanding of the Balfour Declaration. It outlined relations between Palestine and the Arab state, recognizing the former as a National Home for the Jews, in which they should quickly settle. He wrote, "We Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our delegation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday to the Zionist organization to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper."
The agreement articles:

Agreement Between Emir Feisal Husseini and Dr. Weizman
His Royal Highness the Emir FEISAL, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of Hedjaz, and Dr. CHAIM WIEZMANN, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization.
mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consumation of their national aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them,

have agreed upon the following Articles;-

ARTICLE I

The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in the respective territories.

ARTICLE II

Immediately following the completion of the deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries between the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a Commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.

ARTICLE III

In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantee for carrying into effect the British Government's Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917.

ARTICLE IV

All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil.  In taking such measures measures the Arab peasant and tenant farmes shall be protected in their rights and shall be assisted in forwaxiiing their economic development.

ARTICLE V.

No regulation nor Iaw shall be made prohibiting or interfering in any way with the free exercise of religion; and further the free excercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship without discimimtion or preference shell forever be allowed. No religious test shall ever be required for the exercise of civil or political rights.

ARTICLE VI

The Mohammedan Holy Places shall be under Mohammedan control.

ARTICLE VII

The Zionist Organization proposes to send to Palestine a Commission of experts to make a survey of the economic possibilities of the country, and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organisation will place the aforementioned Comission at the disposal of the Arab State for the purpose of a survey of the economic possibilities of the Arab State and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organization will use Its best efforts to assist the Arab State in providing the means for developing the natural resources and economic possibilities thereof.

ARTICLE VIII.

The parties hereto agree to act in complete accord and harmony on all matters embraced herein before the Peace congress.

ARTICLE IX

Any matters of dispute which my arise between the contracting parties shall be referred to the British Government for arbitration.

Given under our hand at LONDON.
ENGLAND, the THIRD day of
JANUARY, ONE THOUSAND NINE
HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN.

Chaim-Weizmann.

Feisal ibn-Hussein.

RESERVATION BY THE EMIR FEISAL

If the Arabs are established as I have asked in my manifesto of January 4th addressed to the British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, I will carry out what is written in this agreement. If changes are made, I cannot be answerable for failing to carry out this agreement.

Feisal ibn-Hussein.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6557
I love how those with but a passing interest in the Israel situation post things that have been dealt with like a million times already on the forum.

ATG, who elected this 'emir'? Where did he get his mandate from? Did the Arabs of Palestine elect him? Was he taking actions that were in the best interests of them? lol

That's like lowing promising some Iraqis that he will facilitate the pull out of US troops. He has no mandate to be playing with lives like that.

lol at the website.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-07 17:13:44)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563
ATG:  You do know that what it means when it says only "recognized Arab leader" is that he was the only one recognized by the West.  It's just the same as China is recognized as in control of Taiwan despite the fact that it isn't.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6530|Global Command

CameronPoe wrote:

I love how those with but a passing interest in the Israel situation post things that have been dealt with like a million times already on the forum.

ATG, who elected this 'emir'? Where did he get his mandate from? Did the Arabs of Palestine elect him? Was he taking actions that were in the best of interest of them? lol

That's like lowing promising some Iraqis that he will facilitate the pull out of US troops. He has no mandate to be playing with lives like that.
At the time, he was legit. At the time Britian ran the show.
The point is, history did NOT begin in 1948.
The article I linked is of course, discredited by you guys, fine. The fact is there have been jewish people in Palestine for thousands of years.
Advocate the destruction of the Jewish state will not bring peace.


It sucks to be Palestinian. I have compassion for them. I've said it before, why don't we convince the Jews to buy a large swath of the Amazon forest and move there.

I'm fine with it. Whatever it takes to end the conflict.

Israel has traded land for peace before, with the understanding that more land would come with the peace they promised.

You fellas overlook that.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6557
Faisal was an IRAQI who was just selling out his arab 'bruthas' on the empty promise of being granted independence by the Brits for accepting the Balfour Declaration. He was a slimy conniving self centred cunt who did NOT speak for all arabs.

ATG wrote:

Israel has traded land for peace before, with the understanding that more land would come with the peace they promised.
Oh yeah - that's right! Israel traded land for peace. They traded EGYPTIAN land they took in a war that they were the agressors in, prompted by British and French concerns over nationalisation of the Suez Canal. How very benevolent and kind-hearted of them. Sheesh.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-07 17:19:25)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563

ATG wrote:

Israel has traded land for peace before, with the understanding that more land would come with the peace they promised.

You fellas overlook that.
No we don't, we just acknowledge that the Israelis are trading Palestinian land.  It'd be like if I took your house and offered you a room.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6557

Bubbalo wrote:

ATG wrote:

Israel has traded land for peace before, with the understanding that more land would come with the peace they promised.

You fellas overlook that.
No we don't, we just acknowledge that the Israelis are trading Palestinian land.  It'd be like if I took your house and offered you a room.
Exactly - as with Egypt.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

ATG wrote:

Advocate the destruction of the Jewish state will not bring peace.
Nobody is advocating that.  We want peace like you do.  We just think that Israel exceeds the limits of reason.  Read the violations to human rights they committed in the last years.
san4
The Mas
+311|6690|NYC, a place to live

sergeriver wrote:

ATG wrote:

Advocate the destruction of the Jewish state will not bring peace.
Nobody is advocating that.  We want peace like you do.  We just think that Israel exceeds the limits of reason.  Read the violations to human rights they committed in the last years.
Nobody is advocating that? There would be a two-state solution today if that were the case.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

san4 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

ATG wrote:

Advocate the destruction of the Jewish state will not bring peace.
Nobody is advocating that.  We want peace like you do.  We just think that Israel exceeds the limits of reason.  Read the violations to human rights they committed in the last years.
Nobody is advocating that? There would be a two-state solution today if that were the case.
By nobody I mean here in this thread, not in the Middle East.
san4
The Mas
+311|6690|NYC, a place to live

sergeriver wrote:

san4 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Nobody is advocating that.  We want peace like you do.  We just think that Israel exceeds the limits of reason.  Read the violations to human rights they committed in the last years.
Nobody is advocating that? There would be a two-state solution today if that were the case.
By nobody I mean here in this thread, not in the Middle East.
I understand. But the views of people in the middle east are more important for peace. And it has been the official policy of one of the "partners for peace" that the other partner should be wiped off the map. I would not defend Israel's human rights record, but Israel's human rights record is not the reason there is no two state solution.
theelviscerator
Member
+19|6290
All I have to say is an athiest, cannot nor ever will not understand the Israeli Situation.

Well not in their lifetime anyways.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563

san4 wrote:

I understand. But the views of people in the middle east are more important for peace. And it has been the official policy of one of the "partners for peace" that the other partner should be wiped off the map. I would not defend Israel's human rights record, but Israel's human rights record is not the reason there is no two state solution.
I disagree.  It is because the Zionists have been so aggressive and violent that native Palestinians were not willing to make concessions.
san4
The Mas
+311|6690|NYC, a place to live

Bubbalo wrote:

san4 wrote:

I understand. But the views of people in the middle east are more important for peace. And it has been the official policy of one of the "partners for peace" that the other partner should be wiped off the map. I would not defend Israel's human rights record, but Israel's human rights record is not the reason there is no two state solution.
I disagree.  It is because the Zionists have been so aggressive and violent that native Palestinians were not willing to make concessions.
Show me where Hamas, Islamic Jihad or Hezbollah has said they would accept Israel's existence if Israel was less aggressive and violent.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563
All of which were created after Zionists ran around killing innocent Muslims to scare them of.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6530|Global Command

Bubbalo wrote:

ATG:  You do know that what it means when it says only "recognized Arab leader" is that he was the only one recognized by the West.  It's just the same as China is recognized as in control of Taiwan despite the fact that it isn't.
China isn't in control of Taiwan?
No cricket for you today Lizzard.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563
If China's in control of Taiwan how come the current government is pro-secession?  And how come the Taiwanese are using US war products?
EVieira
Member
+105|6480|Lutenblaag, Molvania

san4 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

san4 wrote:

I understand. But the views of people in the middle east are more important for peace. And it has been the official policy of one of the "partners for peace" that the other partner should be wiped off the map. I would not defend Israel's human rights record, but Israel's human rights record is not the reason there is no two state solution.
I disagree.  It is because the Zionists have been so aggressive and violent that native Palestinians were not willing to make concessions.
Show me where Hamas, Islamic Jihad or Hezbollah has said they would accept Israel's existence if Israel was less aggressive and violent.
Why does it matter what those radicals say? How do they keep Israel, one of the best armed nations, from giving freedom to the Palestines?

I'll tell you how. Its in Israels best interest that they remain the radicals they are. As long as they exist, Zionists can blame them for all the things they do, and keep building walls and "colonizing".

Zionists and these radical groups are simbiotic. The leech off of each other. If it weren't for so many civilians, I'd say just nuke the damn place and let them start over when the radiaton is gone...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Sparx
Member
+0|6202

EVieira wrote:

san4 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

I disagree.  It is because the Zionists have been so aggressive and violent that native Palestinians were not willing to make concessions.
Show me where Hamas, Islamic Jihad or Hezbollah has said they would accept Israel's existence if Israel was less aggressive and violent.
Why does it matter what those radicals say? How do they keep Israel, one of the best armed nations, from giving freedom to the Palestines?

I'll tell you how. Its in Israels best interest that they remain the radicals they are. As long as they exist, Zionists can blame them for all the things they do, and keep building walls and "colonizing".

Zionists and these radical groups are simbiotic. The leech off of each other. If it weren't for so many civilians, I'd say just nuke the damn place and let them start over when the radiaton is gone...
Yea. Another point in tow: Don't forget that the Zionist aggression at the formation of the state of Israel is what started this mess. And let us remember that by using the two state solution, Palestine will be a divided state. IE the Gaza strip and the West Bank. This in reality is impractical for a small country. It would be a nightmare to function properly without interaction with the buffer state of Israel. And we all KNOW that this doesn't work, it didn't work in the Communist Bloc, particularly Germany and Yugoslavia. So the two state solution would in fact lend to Israel's favor destabilizing the small state of Palestine's inability to sustain itself - which is also the point EViera has made. Undoubtedly there are SOME in Israel who would prefer if that entire region came under Israeli control. How can you deny the obvious truth of settlements appearing on Palestinian land? Isn't this the exact same thing that has been happening since before the state of Israel came into existence? Kibbutz's and compounds appearing? Too bad the Arab's hospitality was misplaced in their arriving cousins. The sad truth.

Last edited by Sparx (2007-05-08 03:30:04)

san4
The Mas
+311|6690|NYC, a place to live

Bubbalo wrote:

All of which were created after Zionists ran around killing innocent Muslims to scare them of.
Your argument doesn't work unless you can show me some Arab efforts to make peace on the condition that the Zionists be less violent and aggressive.

There aren't any because, from the Arab perspective, the founding of the Israeli state was the ultimate aggression. That is a rejection of a two-state solution--and confirms my original point. There would be a two-state solution today if Israel's enemies were willing to accept Israel's existence--like Egypt and Jordan did.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563

san4 wrote:

Your argument doesn't work unless you can show me some Arab efforts to make peace on the condition that the Zionists be less violent and aggressive.
If I walked into the US with an army, shot a whole heap of people to force the refugees into Canada, then called for peace, d'ya think it'd happen?
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6543|Texas - Bigger than France

Bubbalo wrote:

san4 wrote:

Your argument doesn't work unless you can show me some Arab efforts to make peace on the condition that the Zionists be less violent and aggressive.
If I walked into the US with an army, shot a whole heap of people to force the refugees into Canada, then called for peace, d'ya think it'd happen?
Was there a peace treaty after you did so?

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