sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina
Mod Edit: This is the Official Topic, Discuss this subject here, any other topics about this subject will be removed - Bernadictus
_________________________________

Thanks to the mods for this sticky thread.  Please take 20 minutes to read this article in order to understand the Palestine-Israel Conflict. 

Israel and Palestine: A Brief History

The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about, Anonymous

Brief Overview:
History's legacy created divisive issues between Palestinians and Israelis. Judea, home of the Jews in ancient times, was conquered by the Romans and renamed Palestine. Palestine was later conquered  and inhabited by Arabs for over a thousand years. The Zionist movement arose to restore the Jews to Israel, largely ignoring the existing Arab population. Following the Balfour Declaration in 1917, Palestine was granted to Britain as a League of Nations mandate to build a national home for the Jewish people. The Arabs resented the Jews coming in to take their land. Led by Grand Mufti Hajj Amin El Husseini, they rioted repeatedly and later revolted, creating a history of enmity between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. Britain stopped Jewish immigration to Palestine. Following the Holocaust, in which 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis, pressure on Britain increased to allow  Jewish immigration  to Palestine.   In 1947, the UN partitioned the land into Arab and Jewish states. The Arabs did not accept the partition and war broke out. The Jews won a decisive victory, expanded their state and created several hundred thousand Palestinian refugees. The Arab states refused to recognize Israel or make peace with it. Wars broke out in 1956, 1967, 1973 and 1982, and there were many terror raids and Israeli reprisals. Each side believes different versions of the same history. Each side views the conflict as wholly the fault of the other and expects an apology.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-11-22 05:13:16)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6552|SE London

Nice article. Only skimmed it so far, but it all looks very interesting. Hopefully this thread won't be closed by the oppressive forces of censorship. With a bit of luck we can have a nice civil discussion.
Zimmer
Un Moderador
+1,688|6726|Scotland

I will make sure this does not get closed.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina

Bertster7 wrote:

Nice article. Only skimmed it so far, but it all looks very interesting. Hopefully this thread won't be closed by the oppressive forces of censorship. With a bit of luck we can have a nice civil discussion.
Please take your time and read it.  I strongly recommend everyone to read it.  Then, as you said we can have a nice debate based on real facts.

zimmer92 wrote:

I will make sure this does not get closed.
Thanks m8.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-11-21 14:11:00)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

With regards to the topic title.
It's hard to be objective I guess..(especially at wikipedia)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_a … _Palestine

It is proposed that this article be deleted, because of the following concern:


    Propaganda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_anti-Semitism

The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_and_anti-Semitism

The neutrality of this article is disputed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinia … l_violence

The neutrality of this article is disputed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia

The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed.

Sorry slightly off-topic but I thought it was pretty funny.

Last edited by Kmarion (2006-11-21 14:36:38)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6499|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia
I had this written out in the "Israel vs Hezbollah" topic, so I'm bringing it here.

Lisik wrote:

TeamZephyr wrote:

Lisik wrote:


If Hezbollah fire rockets and rise hand and screaming Hai, why not to use it like argument?
They fire rockets? Man, thats TOTALLY up with nazi levels of killing people.
V2

nazi was just more powerfull
Yeah, try again. They did not fire as many V2's as Hezbollah fire Katyushas, and the rockets are much different.

The reason the nazis are nazis is because of their genocide. I'm taking about the massacre of Jews in concentration camps, the massacre of gypsies and the disabled. The mass killings and executions of slavic people and communists.

Everytime someone finds time to criticise Israel you zionists pull out the "Nazi Card", which is pretty much the "If you oppost us YOUR A NAZI! or an ANTI-SEMITE!" It's fucking pathetic to justify criticism of your country and it's disgusting foreign policy you pull out that card and all of a sudden we are scum.

Israel deserves NONE of the land that you stole off the Palestinian people. None of the Jewish people of Israel are directed descended from the people who once lived in Judea, you are all descended from Europe, America and other places, you stole the land you call yours off the Palestinian Arabs with your "immigration", then you took advantage to start a nation for yourselves without thinking about the locals and then got annoyed when the locals and their friends tried to get that land back.

It's time to dismiss this "Jewish State", you have to create a nation of co-existance, a nation with real democracy, with free religion and free speech. Live in peace with the Palestinians in a single nation called "Republic Of Palestine", you're lucky to be where you are, now try to enjoy the gift that they let you have as you CO EXIST FOR FUCKS SAKE, and the reason you can't co-exist is because of Zionist pricks like yourself who can't accept the fact that OTHER LIVED THERE BEFORE YOUR IMMIGRATION.

To quote Peter Garrett, "The time has come, a fact's a fact, it belongs to them, let's give it back"
Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel
Remember the days of old, consider the years of ages past.... (Deuteronomy 32:7)

The birthplace of the Jewish people is the Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael). There, a significant part of the nation's long history was enacted, of which the first thousand years are recorded in the Bible; there, its cultural, religious and national identity was formed; and there, its physical presence has been maintained through the centuries, even after the majority was forced into exile. During the many years of dispersion, the Jewish people never severed nor forgot its bond with the Land. With the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Jewish independence, lost two thousand years earlier, was renewed.


HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS



http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/History/Histo … %20History

Last edited by Lisik (2006-11-22 05:31:14)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6552|SE London

Lisik wrote:

Remember the days of old, consider the years of ages past.... (Deuteronomy 32:7)

The birthplace of the Jewish people is the Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael). There, a significant part of the nation's long history was enacted, of which the first thousand years are recorded in the Bible; there, its cultural, religious and national identity was formed; and there, its physical presence has been maintained through the centuries, even after the majority was forced into exile. During the many years of dispersion, the Jewish people never severed nor forgot its bond with the Land. With the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Jewish independence, lost two thousand years earlier, was renewed.


HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS



http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/History/Histo … %20History
Maybe you should read the article posted in the OP.

Here's a relevant little snippet.

Palestine also remained the center of Jewish worship and a part of Jewish culture. However, the Jewish connection with the land was mostly abstract and connected with dreams of messianic redemption.
*edit* I get an error from your link so can't really comment on the content. The source however, is hardly unbiased.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-11-22 05:49:26)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina

Lisik wrote:

Remember the days of old, consider the years of ages past.... (Deuteronomy 32:7)

The birthplace of the Jewish people is the Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael). There, a significant part of the nation's long history was enacted, of which the first thousand years are recorded in the Bible; there, its cultural, religious and national identity was formed; and there, its physical presence has been maintained through the centuries, even after the majority was forced into exile. During the many years of dispersion, the Jewish people never severed nor forgot its bond with the Land. With the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Jewish independence, lost two thousand years earlier, was renewed.


HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS



http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/History/Histo … %20History
Lisik did you read the article in the OP of this thread?  Please read it and tell me if you find something unfair in it.  Your opinion is important since you live in Israel.  I usually disagree with you, but I really want to know what you think about it.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

I don't mean to dumb this down but given the fact this is the only official thread on the subject I would like to have those interested to answer this question. Simply put, do you think it is possible for these two to coexist given their long brutal history together? Lets hear a yes or no and then an explanation.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|6734|d
NEW RULE: All people that want to respond on this thread HAVE to read the article.

i hate having ignorant bastards fukin up a good debate.
Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel
the article is BS.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

mafia996630 wrote:

NEW RULE: All people that want to respond on this thread HAVE to read the article.

i hate having ignorant bastards fukin up a good debate.
I have read it. You should understand this topic will deviate slightly considering the fact that any other new post with any sort of relevance to this issue will be deleted if not posted in this thread.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina

Lisik wrote:

the article is BS.
Please explain why it's BS.

It's written by Dr. Ami Isseroff, technical writer and programmer who lives in Rehovot, Israel. He is Executive Secretary of MidEastWeb for Coexistence.

I think you'll say it's BS if it doesn't say Israel deserves the whole land.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-11-22 07:07:19)

Lisik
Member
+74|6471|Israel

sergeriver wrote:

Lisik wrote:

the article is BS.
Please explain why it's BS.

It's written by Dr. Ami Isseroff, technical writer and programmer who lives in Rehovot, Israel. He is Executive Secretary of MidEastWeb for Coexistence.

I think you'll say it's BS if it doesn't say Israel deserves the whole land.
Dr. Ami Isseroff from Rehovot wooooooooooooooooooow im so impressive. The article I posted was writed by thousands Dr's. You bring me one and call it Most Objective Article? lol just lol
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina

Lisik wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Lisik wrote:

the article is BS.
Please explain why it's BS.

It's written by Dr. Ami Isseroff, technical writer and programmer who lives in Rehovot, Israel. He is Executive Secretary of MidEastWeb for Coexistence.

I think you'll say it's BS if it doesn't say Israel deserves the whole land.
Dr. Ami Isseroff from Rehovot wooooooooooooooooooow im so impressive. The article I posted was writed by thousands Dr's. You bring me one and call it Most Objective Article? lol just lol
Pls explain why the article is BS.  You never back your statements with logical arguments.  Which article of yours was written by thousands of "Dr's"?  I'm sure is totally non biased.
Did you even read it?

Each side believes different versions of the same history. Each side views the conflict as wholly the fault of the other and expects an apology.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-11-22 08:01:31)

rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6530
"It is also ignorant to believe something just because it is in print." - Me

Last edited by rawls2 (2006-11-22 08:34:26)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina

rawls2 wrote:

"It is also ignorant to believe something just because it is in print." - Me
I studied a bit this issue, and I can tell this is an objective article.  I don't believe what the article says, I know it.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6508|Long Island, New York
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=54295

Continuing off this gem of a thread...

Hitler lover over there claims 6 mil people being gassed and tortured is "mistreatment".
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6614
and 88 is also code for neo nazis
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina

Poseidon wrote:

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=54295

Continuing off this gem of a thread...

Hitler lover over there claims 6 mil people being gassed and tortured is "mistreatment".
Dude don't waste your time with someone so nasty and ignorant.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6519|Southeastern USA
ok since you won't do it i will



kr@cker wrote:

if you want to get back on topic, i'll make it easy for you:

list the defining events of the video (i found 4)

ask yourself what's missing

ask yourself what can be determined and supported from the information provided

ask yourself what can't be determined and supported fromthe information provided
defining events:
subject being apprehended
subject makes grab for soldiers gun
subject is released as top priority is changed to maintaining control of weapons
subject ignores stop order, and is shot in leg

what's missing:
events leading up to the physical confrontation

what can be determined:
two IDF personnel were attempting to detain a subject, subject resisted

what can't be determined:
why the subject was being detained, could have sparked from a simple ID check, could have been harrassment by IDF personnel (though if this was the case i doubt it would have been edited out)

my conclusion:
based on evidence given, a subject was shot in the leg after assaulting two IDF personnel and attempting to leave the scene

your conclusion:
evil israelis hunt down random people on the street and shoot them as they go out to purchase milk for their 5 pre-school age children

i transeferred my post here so you can respond mr ausch88, i'm interested how you came to your conclusions with so little information to work with.

here's his link for those that missed it

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-11-22 12:18:22)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6727|Argentina
No, kr@ker don't invite that guy.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6519|Southeastern USA
i'm removing all arguments or racism and just asking him to make a legitimate examination of his video and rebut my argument. he won't last long if he comes here and tries to act like a knob again.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6623
Any alternative links?  I'm not giving youtube my fucking postcode any time soon.  I would use a throwaway email and fake name but I really can't be bothered.

If it's anything like the "who killed little Muhammed" video, then my opinion is "inconclusive".  People interpreted that video as "proof" that both the Palestinian militia and IDF were responsible, depending on who you asked.

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