IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6773|Northern California
This is the future, and as i yell everytime i see a PG&E commercial "THE FUTURE IS RENEWABLE ENERGY!!!"
https://www.delorean-dmc12.co.uk/pages/back_to_the_future/bttf16.jpg

What's the fuel derived from corn?  That looks like a keeper!  Hybrids are a waste of time.  They barely improve gas-free mileage (especially for family size cars), and electricity has to be the worst idea in the world...once they start exploding.
liquix
Member
+51|6736|Peoples Republic of Portland
Ethanol is probably not the solution because in many production scenarios the entire stalk of corn is used to produce the ethanol, which doesn't leave much to revitalize the soil. This sucks because food, which is more important than ethanol, would be sacrificed. For me, I will always vote Solar Energy or Fusion. For closest energy it would be Solar, I choose this because of the ridiculous amount of energy hitting the earth from the sun, trapping it is the problem though. Another choice is fusion, if it could be done. Imagine converting only 1 Kg of mass into pure energy, creating enough energy to power everything you would require for your entire life.

The most realistic to me still is Solar.

Another interesting Power source is wave energy. I saw a tv show on these where the wave energy was finally able to be captured on the influx and reversal of the water, using a bi-directional turbine blade. I suppose if the power plants were perfected, I could deal with some of the coastline being turned into wave energy plants. Not to bad of a deal, an endless energy source that is producing 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

AS for Nuclear, I would not condone this because of the obvious radioactive dangers. It does work, and works well, its just the danger that gives me the heeby jeebies. My close buddy is a nuclear engineer, and was telling me how he learned (originally) how they would redistribute the radioactive material back into mountain sized volumes of earth!

Hydrogen, Nope. The most effective way to produce enough hydrogen to power all of the cars in the USA is to build about 20 nuclear reactors to seperate hydrogen from seawater...once again a bad and expensive idea.

Last edited by liquix (2006-11-13 10:49:37)

stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7002|California

Ethanol is shit fuel. It lowers your MPG by half, so you will be refueling constantly
Sh1fty2k5
MacSwedish
+113|6992|Sweden
At least Hybrid cars is a good start
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7092|NÃ¥rvei

Sh1fty2k5 wrote:

At least Hybrid cars is a good start
Exactly, hybrids are the only possible solution in the short and semi-long term until a newer better and more efficient fuel is found .... if ever.

Hybrids like the Toyota Prius witch have a 1,5 liter combustion engine and an electric engine with uses lesser fuel and it dont have to be charged like a pure electric car. Runs on average at 0,3 liters pr kilometer.

For now this is the only alternative to the normal mass-produced car !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
nlsme
Member
+48|6698|new york
I have solar to power my entire house. Cost me 8 grand, but i now get a monthly check from the grid for my excees elec. Btw i also drive a 2 litre Chevy Cobalt SS, and my wife drives a Lexus hybrid.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6773|Northern California
Well yeah, fusion would be the end of ALL fuels probably.  Superconductors would be good too..but last i heard, they're nowhere near room temperature.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6936

kr@cker wrote:

odd how the only reason we seem to be close to having an oil "shortage" is due to the fact that socialist driven groups do their damndest to try to prevent oil research/production/exploration
Yeah, and the only reason junkies can't get enough heroin is due to the fact that the fascist pigs do their damndest to prevent heroin research/production/exploration...
vpyroman
Aeon Supreme commander
+16|6899|UCF
Nuclear Power(at the current stage) won't solve the problems. Sure its safer and produces more power, but the waste it generates is worse. As liquix said

liquix wrote:

My buddy is a nuclear engineer, and was telling me how he learned how they would redistribute the radioactive material back into mountain sized volumes of earth!
I would go with the compressed air car, or that crazy water fueled car. Those seem crazy and sci-fi-ish.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6778
Solar is batshit crazy. Ethanol is impossible without Sugarcane. Hydrogen is still a ways off. Batteries are getting better. Hybrids are effective. That's about it.

Oh, and whats this talk about nuclear? You guys are dum dums, the problem isn't how you GENERATE the power, its how you STORE it in the car. We won't ever see cars with nuclear reactors.

Last edited by jonsimon (2006-11-13 13:27:19)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6832|Southeastern USA

stryyker wrote:

Ethanol is shit fuel. It lowers your MPG by half, so you will be refueling constantly
yeah, that's why the indy circuit uses it
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6832|Southeastern USA

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

odd how the only reason we seem to be close to having an oil "shortage" is due to the fact that socialist driven groups do their damndest to try to prevent oil research/production/exploration
Yeah, and the only reason junkies can't get enough heroin is due to the fact that the fascist pigs do their damndest to prevent heroin research/production/exploration...
this link should help you improve your reach

http://www.stokesladders.com/products/
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7018|Salt Lake City

kr@cker wrote:

stryyker wrote:

Ethanol is shit fuel. It lowers your MPG by half, so you will be refueling constantly
yeah, that's why the indy circuit uses it
They actually use methanol.  The E85 type ethanol currently available for ethanol vehicles does have less energy in it than gasoline, so there is a reduction in power and mileage of the vehicle.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6936

kr@cker wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

odd how the only reason we seem to be close to having an oil "shortage" is due to the fact that socialist driven groups do their damndest to try to prevent oil research/production/exploration
Yeah, and the only reason junkies can't get enough heroin is due to the fact that the fascist pigs do their damndest to prevent heroin research/production/exploration...
this link should help you improve your reach

http://www.stokesladders.com/products/
this one will help you see the bigger picture

http://www.lizardpoint.com/fun/java/dinodots/dino1.html
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6831|San Diego, CA, USA

vpyroman wrote:

I would go with the compressed air car, or that crazy water fueled car. Those seem crazy and sci-fi-ish.
Source: Compressed Air Car

Urban legend: Source: Water Fuelled Car
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6825|Texas - Bigger than France

kr@cker wrote:

hmm, taxing a company to make it's product obsolete, sounds great!!
seems a bit like jealousy, PUNISH THE EVIL CAPITALIST PIGS FOR BEING SUCCESSFUL!!
<insert remark about oil greed here>
odd how the only reason we seem to be close to having an oil "shortage" is due to the fact that socialist driven groups do their damndest to try to prevent oil research/production/exploration
Agree with not taxing the company, but I do believe that actually the oil companies are positioned correctly to be the ones who develop and distribute the new form of energy.  Therefore, I think that the "evil" oil companies should be given tax breaks to develop the technology and bring it to market.

Kind of hybrid cars, except they did it wrong.  They allowed the automakers to charge a premium, so it's actually more expensive to buy a hybrid car (assuming you buy a new car every seven years)...based on comparing gas money saved versus the sticker price.  Stupid.

I always laugh at the "evil oil company" bit.  Is it the companies' fault or the consumers' fault?
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6832|Southeastern USA

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

stryyker wrote:

Ethanol is shit fuel. It lowers your MPG by half, so you will be refueling constantly
yeah, that's why the indy circuit uses it
They actually use methanol.  The E85 type ethanol currently available for ethanol vehicles does have less energy in it than gasoline, so there is a reduction in power and mileage of the vehicle.
methanol is used in drag racing, dirt tracks, your average redneck racing (usually in conjunction with gasoline and nitrous oxide) and i think f1
but indy to a ethanol/methanol blend, octane is well above what you get at the pump

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12740848

@ pug, I apologize for steering us toward speaking in liberalese, there is no such thing as taxing the company, the taxes will just be passed on to the consumer "taxing the company" is a way to invoke class warfare/jealousy and dupe people into voting for the bill

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-11-13 14:47:34)

Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6825|Texas - Bigger than France
Nah, I understood.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6778

kr@cker wrote:

@ pug, I apologize for steering us toward speaking in liberalese, there is no such thing as taxing the company, the taxes will just be passed on to the consumer "taxing the company" is a way to invoke class warfare/jealousy and dupe people into voting for the bill
Just to clarify, it is possible to tax a firm, but a portion of the tax can be passed to the consumer depending on the elasticity of demand for their product. So, in an industry that is relatively inelastic, the whole tax can be passed on to the consumer, but in the case of elastic demand, the supplier must pay the tax.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6832|Southeastern USA
and where does the money to pay the tax come from, does the firm print it themselves?
jonsimon
Member
+224|6778

kr@cker wrote:

and where does the money to pay the tax come from, does the firm print it themselves?
It comes from their capital or revenues. If you're going to argue that the firm pays taxes with consumers money, why don't we just jump to the conclusion that the government pays for everything, since they print all the money.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6832|Southeastern USA
which is obtained by selling a product/service to a consumer

the government pays for nothing, the taxpayers pay for everything
jonsimon
Member
+224|6778

kr@cker wrote:

which is obtained by selling a product/service to a consumer

the government pays for nothing, the taxpayers pay for everything
Like I said, that logic is as silly as saying the government pays for everything because all legal tender originates there.
liquix
Member
+51|6736|Peoples Republic of Portland
Lets all just buy suburbans, since the oil companies are faking the shortage anyhow! Who would think that a limited resource would run out!

Ok, the reason to get off oil is not only because of the finite amount, but the environmental impacts caused by its production and consumption. I still don't get how some people think we have ZERO effect on the environment. Go pour some bleach onto your lawn and tel me nothing happens. Also, your really going to be pissed when the polar icecaps melt so much that the saltwater/freshwater imbalance stops the north atlantic current, plunging us into a premature ice age Nah I still vote Solar/Wave energy.

Last edited by liquix (2006-11-13 15:47:00)

Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6825|Texas - Bigger than France

jonsimon wrote:

Just to clarify, it is possible to tax a firm, but a portion of the tax can be passed to the consumer depending on the elasticity of demand for their product. So, in an industry that is relatively inelastic, the whole tax can be passed on to the consumer, but in the case of elastic demand, the supplier must pay the tax.
This is true. 

I do think that if we wanted to "curb" oil use then making it more expensive will encourage new development.  I'm not a big fan of targeting the tax at the product, but more into making better use of what's already collected.  A sort of loose comparison would be like taxing tobacco products - to make it more expensive to smoke.  However the "Sin" tax is paid by the consumer and not by the company.  I'm not sure if oil falls into that category since is bundled with the economy.

I would prefer the consumer pay the tax myself, because if the company pays it, then they'll add their markup on top of it...which would be more expensive for me.

But you're right, people would still pay quite a bit more for oil in both cases.  Oil's still cheap...

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