wooly-back-jack
Jihaaaaaad!!!
+84|6979|England
I'll queue up for it 3 days before release and pitch a tent on the pavement
then I will play for 15hrs + per day and BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD!!!11



Not really, origionally I was looking forward to it but I think I have come to my senses.
Its just another moneyspinner from EA, and untill lots of people tell me otherwise, I wont be buying it.
Dr.Battlefield
Got milk?
+150|6990
About overpowered weaponary: You cant make GL less powerful. Because the only way you can do it is to increase damage radius(make it like with usual grenades) to avoid shooting infront of yourself and stay alive. OK lets say you did it. Now if you shoot infront of you you most likely will blow yourself up because of higher damage radius. But then GL will OWNZ everyone from distance , again because of this radius. It will be like you shoot more than 80 meters away, the grenade is landing 2m away from the guy and blow him up. Then all ppl will be only support and assault, no point in medic because even if you revived someone GL with higher range will hit both of you anyway. So its impossible to make GL more sensitive, but leave the same amount of power for it. Sure you can say its possible to make a timer for GL, but then whats the point to use it instead of usual grenades? 1 more option is to make a safe distance around the player when he cant fire GL. But this option will look stupid becaule you need to much work to do it + you will have to make a vertical clearance too. For example you stay on top of the roof and see the guy on the ground. You would use your GL but it wont let you do it because the guy is too close to you(estimated by area around). Program isnt smart and cant see that actually you cant kill yourself even if you shoot in your "safe" area. So you cant remake one thing and didnt break another.

Last edited by Dr.Battlefield (2005-11-15 11:30:35)

Cougar
Banned
+1,962|7003|Dallas
ha ha speelbal fails at life.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7001

I'm kinda looking forward ot Special Forces as an improvement to what we have now. I don't really trust EA anymore though so I'm gonna wait it out till people post some reviews on how improved it got. I'm usually pretty tolerant about game bugs, I mean considering release times, cost constraints, and company pressures, they do pretty well. But...

Some bugs are completelly unacceptable, I don't care how much time it would take to fix. The server browser is still a piece of crap, and it really isn't THAT hard to code a menu. Also, I'll get random crashes of the game sometiems without an error, blue screen, NOTHING. It makes me very aggravated. Hopefully they'll get it right this time.

And I'm not a big fan of people's attitute of "all software has bugs, deal with it"... it's this exact attitude that has let EA rush games that aren't complete because they know most players won't stick it to them and will buy their buggy game anyway. Writing bug free code does cost more and takes more time, but hey, if consumers don't care, why should EA? Just remember, we demand that our cars be 100% safe, we demand that our food have the highest quality possible, we demand lots of thing in this world, and all those industries take that into consideration to give high quality products. If we raise the standards on software, maybe they too will clean up their act.

Oh and btw, I've had everything Speedbal describe happen to me... and I can honestly say BF2 is the buggiest game I've ever played. So on with the boycott dude.

Last edited by GotMex? (2005-11-15 12:09:27)

TriggerHappy998
just nothing
+387|7086|-
Do you really think you're going to get enough people to boycott a game this big? Doubtful.

Oh, and the next person that uses red or blue text is going to get their posts deleted. Fucking hurts the eyes man.
xilix
Member
+0|7006

GotMex? wrote:

Just remember, we demand that our cars be 100% safe, we demand that our food have the highest quality possible, we demand lots of thing in this world, and all those industries take that into consideration to give high quality products. If we raise the standards on software, maybe they too will clean up their act.
You can't DIE from a buggy video game...ok well maybe some of you guys would.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7001

xilix wrote:

GotMex? wrote:

Just remember, we demand that our cars be 100% safe, we demand that our food have the highest quality possible, we demand lots of thing in this world, and all those industries take that into consideration to give high quality products. If we raise the standards on software, maybe they too will clean up their act.
You can't DIE from a buggy video game...ok well maybe some of you guys would.
Lol true, we can't hold the same standards for video games as for software controlled heart monitors. But still, some sort of responsibility has to be taken for the code. (I'm a Computer Science student so I'm all hyped about this sort of stuff).

I just think that EA shouldn't be allowed to charge us 49.99 for the game considering the state in which it was released. 49.99 is reserved for new, top of the line games, that are meant to be the leaders of the gaming community. Heck, I even paid about 60 when HL2 came out, and that was a pretty well made game. All I'm getting at is if we pay full price for a buggy game, as well as for a perfectly made game... well then, I guess I won't be worrying too much about bugs when I'm start writing computer games for some cool company or on my own.
Sgt.Gh0st
Pump-Action Pimp
+16|7021|The Hague, Holland

Hakula wrote:

Coolbeano wrote:

Speelbal wrote:

- Overpowered and underpowered weaponry. (GL & Mp5) Realism.
hate to tellya but those won't be good enough for many people, including me.

Sorry.
The games weapons have no realism in them sorry.
I'd go with Hakula.
xilix
Member
+0|7006

GotMex? wrote:

xilix wrote:

GotMex? wrote:

Just remember, we demand that our cars be 100% safe, we demand that our food have the highest quality possible, we demand lots of thing in this world, and all those industries take that into consideration to give high quality products. If we raise the standards on software, maybe they too will clean up their act.
You can't DIE from a buggy video game...ok well maybe some of you guys would.
Lol true, we can't hold the same standards for video games as for software controlled heart monitors. But still, some sort of responsibility has to be taken for the code. (I'm a Computer Science student so I'm all hyped about this sort of stuff).

I just think that EA shouldn't be allowed to charge us 49.99 for the game considering the state in which it was released. 49.99 is reserved for new, top of the line games, that are meant to be the leaders of the gaming community. Heck, I even paid about 60 when HL2 came out, and that was a pretty well made game. All I'm getting at is if we pay full price for a buggy game, as well as for a perfectly made game... well then, I guess I won't be worrying too much about bugs when I'm start writing computer games for some cool company or on my own.
I hear ya man, but whatever it is about software makes it very difficult to work with from a QA standpoint.   Heck 49.95 doesnt seem so bad when you consider the company I work for spent $40 Million developing a new Billing application and dumped the whole project after 2 years of not being able to get it to work.  Now we're 30 million into the budget for its replacement and they cant get that working correctly either.  My advice to you as a programmer, get in with PeopleSoft, their developers charge boatloads to contract to companies - one guy was making over $800K/yr on contract.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7013|Noizyland

I agree with a lot of these problem. They do happen. Especially high unexplained pings, which I always make a point to holler about. I call them lag strikes. I was kind of annoyed when i found that the whole co-op option didn't exist, but I got on with it. I'd like to see them bring it back in a future patch.

And my personal message to EA: I don't mind waiting until you have the game working as it should.

Then again, I'm not an EA customer as such, as I am yet to get a computer that can play the first Duke Nukem. Someone give me NZ$2000 would you?
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Speelbal
Member
+146|6991|Netherlands
Well, as discussion leader (I started this thread) I can conlude everyone has an opinion what seems to be mine or entirely not mine. There are some kidies out there too tha want to post insults:

Cougar wrote:

ha ha speelbal fails at life.
Please do not post here, this is an adult conversation. True?

My opinion in short and rephrased is, EA doesn'take care about their customers.
Someone said, if we ask more from our software, EA would set the standard higher too. Good point. If we all just say: yea all games have bugs we are not going anywhere. Isn't there an option wich you want to include, a bug out of the game? Yes ofcourse. Most game providers listen to that feedback.
Let me ask you something: Who has contacted EA's technical support? Have they given you a solution? How high do you lay the bar? Do you want your solution within 1 week? 1 hour? 10 minutes? If we all say "A week is fine" we can't use our software for a week. We did pay for it!!

I don't want you to boycott. You may buy it, I will not hold you down. But think twice before you buy, that's all I ask. Know that Battlefield 2 has these bugs, and you can say, well that never happened to me, but they're there, trust me.
Also question yourself if the expansion pack is worth your money. I know: 30 dollars/euros is ridiculous and this price is so high because of the copyright. (You pay 45 % for the brand, rest for development costs. -And ofcourse piracy-)

Just think twice, all I ask.

Good night for now, I am going to bed.
odessaman
Member
+0|7017
I agree, I won't give EA another dime since BF2 sucks with bugs and half the time you can't even play online.

odessaman
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7082|Bryan/College Station, TX
A well thought out and written arguement against EA/DICE on how we feel about their incomplete release of the game and all the internal bugs that are the result. That they should improve their Alpha test team because obviously they are not catching all the bugs. There are obvious issues with balance and gameplay.

This letter needs to be written up and needs to be concise and to the point.

Then we give instructions on how and where to put this letter. Be it EA official support or on the official EA forums.

We then each post a copy of this letter on those forums. Each of us. We do not add to previously posted letters. We litter the forum with this letter showing our support of it. That should be several hundred posts of this exact same letter. We do not repost the letter more than once. We are making a statement not overly spamming their forums.

We do this and I think we may see a reply or even some action done.

What do you think?
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Cronjob
Member
+1|6976|Broomfield, Colorado
People who complain the most about software quality and the development and maintainance process tend to be those with the least (if any) actual experience in it. Software is never released perfect. Even if it's million dollar enterprise software for millions of end-users. Software development is a recursive process and each iteration refines the previous.

I've already plunked down the dough and downloaded the game and can't wait to play. I wish the content had come with the game in the first place, but hey - it's only another $30. And I'd rather pay $30 a couple times a year for more content and upkeep than $15/mo like an MMORPG or something else.

All in all, the quality of BF2 has surpassed that of many other game launches and systems. Not perfect, but . . . pretty damn good.

People on the outside love to rag on the job those on the inside are doing, but whatever you think the resource of the BF2 teams are and however much you think they can accomplish, cut it by 75% and that's the reality. No matter what company or group or team you're on, they're never as funded, staffed, flexible or dynamic as you might think. It's beauracracy and it's everywhere, short of maybe a little 10 guy startup.
Speelbal
Member
+146|6991|Netherlands
Yes we know that all software has bugs. Don't go on about it all day.

We raise the bar, we expect more from our software. New developments in the software industry should come from both sides: customer and supplier.
Coolbeano
Level 13.5 BF2S Ninja Penguin Sensei
+378|7002

Speelbal wrote:

Also question yourself if the expansion pack is worth your money. I know: 30 dollars/euros is ridiculous and this price is so high because of the copyright. (You pay 45 % for the brand, rest for development costs. -And ofcourse piracy-)
yeah, 11 dollars for a legit game, I'm willing to pay for it.

'specially considering BF2 was 12.

oh and trigger happy; What about magenta? It's a form of red and blue like pink is a form of red.

Last edited by Coolbeano (2005-11-16 02:50:43)

LSD_Wash
Member
+64|7052
I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at people bitching about these minor bugs while having 100, 200, even 300 hours of playing time in this 'horrible buggy game'.  I'm frustrated by the odd bug here and there but it certainly isn't annoying enough to make me stop playing and definately not enough to make me boycott them.

Consider for a minute (in between your whining sessions) the scale and complexity of this game.  From the physics, to the graphics, to the audio, to the networking, to the level design, to the ranking system, and on and on.  This game is a MONSTER of a game.  They've managed to tackle amazing technical obsticles and create an EXPERIENCE that makes you forget you are playing a game.  It gets your adrenalin pumping and your heart racing... and it's really all a bunch of bits and bytes of data flying around in clever ways.  To me, as a professional software developer for over 10 years, I'm amazed by this feat of programming prowess and design skills.  My hat's off to Dice.

Also consider this, this software is running on tens of thousands of various computers, with various video cards, with various driver versions, various sound vards, with various network connections, etc.  There is simply NO way that any company out there could test every configuration, even with 100 testers working for a year, you could never get the same test results as tens of thousands testing the game.

Cronjob said it best, those bitching the loudest have never had any experience writing software.

On a side note, the browser issue is really puzzling to me.  As complex as this game is in terms of rendering, physics, etc. you know they have some brilliant developers on staff.  So how could they screw up a simple menu/server list so badly?  My theory is that they threw a newbie (intern?) developer on that job for that very reason... it's one of the 'easy' jobs.  They probably save their 'uber' developers' time for rendering issues, physics issues, etc.  I could be wrong but that's just my theory.

In short (too late for that... yeah yeah) I say, cut them a LITTLE slack (not TOO much) and enjoy the game!

Last edited by LSD_Wash (2005-11-16 08:52:58)

Turtle
Member
+7|6996|Boulder, CO

Coolbeano wrote:

Speelbal wrote:

Also question yourself if the expansion pack is worth your money. I know: 30 dollars/euros is ridiculous and this price is so high because of the copyright. (You pay 45 % for the brand, rest for development costs. -And ofcourse piracy-)
yeah, 11 dollars for a legit game, I'm willing to pay for it.

'specially considering BF2 was 12.

oh and trigger happy; What about magenta? It's a form of red and blue like pink is a form of red.
Damn man, where the hell do you buy your games? Black Market Afghanistan?

Speelbal: This is not an out of the ordinary price for an expansion. Neither was the cost of bf2.
CMDR_Dave
Redneck
+66|7080|Missoula, MT
Nice LSD...nice. 
Speelbal
Member
+146|6991|Netherlands

Turtle wrote:

Coolbeano wrote:

Speelbal wrote:

Also question yourself if the expansion pack is worth your money. I know: 30 dollars/euros is ridiculous and this price is so high because of the copyright. (You pay 45 % for the brand, rest for development costs. -And ofcourse piracy-)
yeah, 11 dollars for a legit game, I'm willing to pay for it.

'specially considering BF2 was 12.

oh and trigger happy; What about magenta? It's a form of red and blue like pink is a form of red.
Damn man, where the hell do you buy your games? Black Market Afghanistan?

Speelbal: This is not an out of the ordinary price for an expansion. Neither was the cost of bf2.
Lol at the first sentence!

I know. But not well spend on a game that will not be supplied thanks to customer feedback.
<eN>Madcat
Member
+2|7079
Its all true, out of all the games i have played, EA games i seem to have to most problems with, lag issues and some of the game requirements are just of the charts.  When i send them questions they say sorry, we cannot answer i because we are gay.  Ubisoft, others, i send the fucker and its in my inbox within the next 10 hours.  EA just does not have the skills to talk to customers and hear their opions. One of the many reasons why I can't find any Ea forums(Not sure of this).  EA is jsut rich with all their sports franchises they don't have to worry about anything else. End
Cronjob
Member
+1|6976|Broomfield, Colorado

Speelbal wrote:

Yes we know that all software has bugs. Don't go on about it all day.

We raise the bar, we expect more from our software. New developments in the software industry should come from both sides: customer and supplier.
People have unrealistic expectations. Do you know how many parts your car has? Not as many as your operating system or your favorite videogame.

Every line of code is, essentially, another part. It's another potential point of failure. If your car has 15,000 parts and your copy of BF2 has 2.5 million parts, which do you expect to have a greater failure rate? Especially since one is an easily testable piece of hardware and the other is a piece of software in which failure can only be detected by a million monkeys bashing on a million copies for a million hours (plus a bit of luck).

And any car analogies are a bit silly if you're using them to say "software should be this reliable", because cars have recalls and poorly manufactured parts that require fixing all the time. And even then, you're talking about a car - not a piece of software. A car is essentially the same bundle of parts every year. A piece of software, if beaten until the very last bug and glitch is found, logged, fixed and QA'd, will be obsolete and uninteresting by the time it is finally released as "perfect".

So, it's a compromise. Do you wan't modern games with modern graphics? Or do you want a few more years of testing and QA to go on to make sure that a very playable game is stripped of every last little glitch first? I'd rather have BF2 today and play it while they're working out the last few major kinks than have BF2 in 2008 or 2009, still with today's graphics and technology and performance (you can't add 2006-2008 technology to it, obviously, since you'd have to freeze your development tree to focus on just the fixes for a few years).
dop3man
I'm your pusher
+9|6976|yorkshire penisula
i agree with the op,bugs bugs and more bugs,but the game has given me and my bro nearly 400 hours of gaming and awesum gaming at that,it doesent live up to its potential but then again hardly anything does.
ive pre-order'd it and im gunna love it even more than BF2,also ive read that another patch will be out for the release which may address sum issues,a boycott would be nice to teach EA a lesson,but that aint gunna happen,too many bf junkies out there(me included).
good points tho
Kriznik
Member
+0|7010
SpeelBall

i havent any problem with game why? ... all games are same, but every system is different

try to clean up at your home before you start messing around to EA
Cronjob
Member
+1|6976|Broomfield, Colorado

Speelbal wrote:

Also question yourself if the expansion pack is worth your money. I know: 30 dollars/euros is ridiculous and this price is so high because of the copyright. (You pay 45 % for the brand, rest for development costs. -And ofcourse piracy-)
Thirty bucks is ridiculous? Are you serious? You clearly have a computer that is high-end enough to play BF2. You have a high-speed internet connection. You have spare time to post in BF2 forums. You may not be a Rockafellar but you are obviously not dirt poor.

Should the BF2:SF content have been included in BF2 in the first place? Probably. Chances are they couldn't release six months ago with that content, because they didn't have the resources dedicated to the project to finish and QA it. And it was probably a business decision to suck in some extra revenue by packaging a good chunk of what should have been original content into another $30 package. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that.

You get more play out of BF2 (and will out of BF2:SF) than you would a $20 CD, $100 concert ticket or $25 DVD. Hell, if you drink starbucks once a day, that's a week of lattes.

I know not everyone makes a lot of money or has a lot of spending cash for entertainment after their expenses and a lot of people are just kids with no sources of income. Still . . . Man, it's $30 and it's a fairly sizable content pack.

By the way, you don't pay anything for piracy. It isn't like a grocery store where you're paying for shrinkage of a physical product. When a copy of BF2 is "pirated", no tangible good is taken so no direct loss is caused. You can't even suggest that it's a lost sale, since it's unlikely there would have been a sale to such a person in the first place.

Development costs are expensive. You clearly have no idea what expenses are involved in the software business (especially the game industry). I suppose you think your local videogame store is making a killing on the sales, too? On a $50 box, the retailer is lucky to get $5 profit. The developer has to pay for a building to work in, an IT department, legal department, marketing and sales, executives, engineers, managers, taxes and other payroll expenses, physical packaging and delivery, QA/testing, servers to play on (which they don't charge any fee for), maintainance and monitoring of those servers and development of new content, customer service people, website content people . . . All of these expenses go up with the economy, yet games are still $50 (for the most part) just like they have been for at least ten years.

Maybe you're new to the computer world, but you shouldn't expect your hardware and software to run like a toaster. It is a significantly more complex device as are the things you install and run on it. It will always be this way unless you somehow develop an autonomous system that magically perfects your code for you and intuitively knows what you (a human) really had in your head when you wrote that subroutine late lastnight at work. That ain't ever going to happen.

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