BF2S Forums Russia: the REAL Threat to the World

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-08-15 03:10:14)

Braddock wrote:

Well that for me was the great flaw of communism - the need to restrict people's right to leave if they wished. Capitalism can accommodate such a thing way easier as their philosophy is that if you don't want to do the work someone else will take your place and reap the benefits, Communism on the other hand is a team effort and needs everyone's commitment. I personally don't think mankind is evolved enough to make something like Communism work, we are still to animalistic in individualism.

Chrisimo wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Chrisimo wrote:

Well, ask yourself if you'd rather be 'governed' by the US or by Russia.

Neither thanks. They aren't all that different really.

Yes, they are. I was born in and raised in West Germany while my best friend was born and raised in the GDR. It is a pretty good example of the difference between the US and the SU/Russia.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

I'm not sure you're getting my point. Isolationism. No binding alliances.

You really think ditching our allies is a good idea.

Cutting ties at the next peaceful time would be 1000% good for this country.

jord wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

You really think ditching our allies is a good idea.

Cutting ties at the next peaceful time would be 1000% good for this country.

"Hey guys thanks for fighting in our shitting Desert wars but I'm afraid we're gonna be alone now cya"

"But alliances work to ways"

"Yeah we're not allies no more goodbye".

And thus the number hating US peaks.

usmarine wrote:

i thought NATO was created for precisely this situation.  Well, mobilize EU....get rolling.

fadedsteve wrote:

usmarine wrote:

i thought NATO was created for precisely this situation.  Well, mobilize EU....get rolling.

Yep!! Its time for the EU to strap a nutsack and get with the program!   Its time for Germany, France, and England and the rest of the lot to tell Russia to go fuck itself.  The USA can help a lot but it takes a team effort to deal with the Russians!

The risk of a new era of east-west confrontation triggered by Russia's invasion of Georgia heightened today when Moscow reserved the right to launch a nuclear attack on Poland because it agreed to host US rockets as part of the Pentagon's missile shield.

As Washington accused Russia of "bullying and intimidation" in Georgia and demanded an immediate withdrawal of Russian forces from the small Black Sea neighbour, Russia's deputy chief of staff turned on Warsaw and said it was vulnerable to a Russian rocket attack because of Thursday's pact with the US on the missile defence project.

"By deploying, Poland is exposing itself to a strike - 100%," warned Colonel General Anatoly Nogovitsyn. He added that Russia's security doctrine allowed it to use nuclear weapons against an active ally of a nuclear power such as America.

The warning worsened the already dismal mood in relations between Moscow and the west caused by the shock of post-Soviet Russia's first invasion of a foreign country.

There were scant signs of military activity on the ground in Georgia, but nor were there any signs of the Russian withdrawal pledged on Tuesday under ceasefire terms mediated by the European Union.

Instead, the focus was on a flurry of diplomatic activity that exposed acute differences on how Washington and Berlin see the crisis in the Caucasus.

Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, went to Tbilisi to bolster Georgia against the Russians as President George Bush denounced Russian "bullying and intimidation" as "unacceptable".

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, met Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev on the Black Sea close to Georgia's borders and sent quite a different message, offering a mild rebuke of Moscow.

"Some of Russia's actions were not proportionate," she said.

Unlike the Americans and some European states who are saying the Russians should face "consequences" for their invasion, Merkel said negotiations with Moscow on a whole range of issues would continue as before and spread the blame for the conflict. "It is rare that all the blame is on one side. In fact, both sides are probably to blame. That is very important to understand," she said.

In Tbilisi, Rice was much more forthright, saying that the invasion had "profound implications for Russia ... This calls into question what role Russia really plans to play in international politics.

"You can't be a responsible member of institutions which are democratic and underscore democratic values and on the other hand act in this way against one of your neighbours."

The Russians have been refusing to pull back their forces in Georgia until President Mikheil Saakashvili signed the six-point ceasefire plan arranged by President Nicolas Sarkozy of France earlier this week, although the Russians had refused to sign it themselves.

Saakashvili signed today, while accusing the Russians of being "evil" and "21st century barbarians". Rice said Medvedev had also signed it.

"Russia has every time been testing the reaction of the west. It's going to replicate what happened in Georgia elsewhere," said Saakashvili. "We are looking evil directly in the eye. Today this evil is very strong, and very dangerous for everybody, not just for us."

Rice's show of solidarity with Georgia's beleaguered president was theatrically undermined when Russia dispatched a column of armoured personnel carriers towards the Georgian capital.

As the talks were taking place, 10 armoured personnel carriers laden with Russian troops set off from Gori, penetrating to within 20 miles of Tbilisi.

"Georgia has been attacked. Russian forces need to leave Georgia at once," said Rice. The withdrawal "must take place, and take place now ... This is no longer 1968," she added in reference to the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia 40 years ago next week.

The ceasefire terms favour the Russians who routed the Georgians. But the secretary of state argued the plan would not affect negotiations over the central territorial dispute between Georgia and the two breakaway pro-Russian provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The deal allows Russian troops to remain in the two provinces and to mount patrols and "take additional security measures" on Georgian territory beyond the two enclaves.

Senior Russians continued to insist today that Russian troops had not stepped outside South Ossetia and Abkhazia despite the fact they have been deep inside Georgian territory in several places all week.

"Our ground forces never crossed the border of the conflict zone," said Sergei Ivanov, the deputy prime minister.

Moscow also indicated it would resist possible European attempts to deploy international peacekeepers in the contested territories.

"We are not against international peacekeepers," the Russian president said. "But the problem is that the Abkhazians and the Ossetians do not trust anyone except Russian peacekeepers." He also attacked the agreement between Washington and Warsaw on the missile shield and said claims that the shield was aimed at Iran were "fairy tales"

"This clearly demonstrates the deployment of new anti-missile forces in Europe has as its aim the Russian Federation," said Medvedev. "The moment has been well chosen."

The timing of Thursday's agreement on missile defence means that tensions are soaring on Russia's southern and western borders.

Polish armed forces today paraded in Warsaw to mark a rare defeat of the Russians 888 years ago and President Lech Kaczynski hailed the accord on the Pentagon project as a boost for Poland's security.

In return for hosting 10 interceptor rockets said to be intended to destroy any eventual ballistic missile attacks from Iran, Poland is to receive a battery of US Patriot missiles for its air defences and has won a mutual security pact with Washington.

fadedsteve wrote:

usmarine wrote:

i thought NATO was created for precisely this situation.  Well, mobilize EU....get rolling.

Yep!! Its time for the EU to strap a nutsack and get with the program!   Its time for Germany, France, and England and the rest of the lot to tell Russia to go fuck itself.  The USA can help a lot but it takes a team effort to deal with the Russians!

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-08-15 13:56:22)

Lotta_Drool wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

usmarine wrote:

i thought NATO was created for precisely this situation.  Well, mobilize EU....get rolling.

Yep!! Its time for the EU to strap a nutsack and get with the program!   Its time for Germany, France, and England and the rest of the lot to tell Russia to go fuck itself.  The USA can help a lot but it takes a team effort to deal with the Russians!

Yeah, this is why I am for:

BRING ALL THE US TROOPS IN EUROPE HOME NOW.  fuck europe can make its own bed and sleep in it.  I pay enough in taxes already.

iamangry wrote:

I would like to point out that we pushed russia into this position this time.  I'm sorry, but the missile shield is asking for it.  There's no way around that.  If we wanted to do this right, we should have included Russia in the plan.  If you look at the globe from a russia-centric point of view, you see that they are almost completely surrounded by BMD, to the north in the arctic and alaska, to the east in J-pan, and to the west in Poland.  I'd be a little worried if I were them too.  Not that I'm not all for making sure Russia stays suppressed, but it would have been nice to have done it in a more... elegant way.