InnerMonkey
Member
+62|6689

siciliano732 wrote:

Interesting how, if you attend a church and a pastor is preaching these types of topics...if you didnt agree with him...wouldnt you leave? 

Why has Obama continued to attend.  Interesting.

Or maybe it was his wife's comment about how she is proud of the US for the first time ever for their support of her hubby.  Interesting.
Not interesting at all really.  If I left every conversation that I didn't agree with 100%, I'd be a hermit.

Maybe he should beat his wife more so she doesn't say anything without his approval?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

siciliano732 wrote:

Interesting how, if you attend a church and a pastor is preaching these types of topics...if you didnt agree with him...wouldnt you leave? 

Why has Obama continued to attend.  Interesting.

Or maybe it was his wife's comment about how she is proud of the US for the first time ever for their support of her hubby.  Interesting.
Asked and answered.

Barack wrote:

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue…

    Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he’s been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

    The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
InnerMonkey
Member
+62|6689

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

I dont think it does, but a lot of people here obviously want some form of christian sharia law here
I see where you're coming from, but that's the very reason it does seem to be the case to me.  Now that anti-muslim sentiment is so high in this country, it means more than all the previous gay marriage, abortion, prayer in school etc hot topics of 'recent' elections.
san4
The Mas
+311|6659|NYC, a place to live
1. Obama is being dishonest when he says he was not aware of his pastor's radical and anti-American views. He was a member of that church for 20 years.

2. If a person wants to be President of the United States, Rev. Wright's views should make his blood boil.

But Obama has repeatedly said Rev. Wright is his spiritual mentor and he let Wright be associated with his campaign. This is after the guy blamed the US for 9/11. After he said the US government created the AIDS virus to kill blacks. After he said we should sing "God Damn America" instead of "God Bless America."

Why wasn't Obama enraged when he became aware of his pastor's views? How could he have tolerated this guy?

Last edited by san4 (2008-03-14 18:28:26)

InnerMonkey
Member
+62|6689
On the same token, why is Hillary tolerated considering what her husband did?  Bill sure wasn't faithful, or Christian in his actions, but she stayed with him.  It's almost as if she condoned it.


Just playing devil's advocate, but still
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6306|Oregon

InnerMonkey wrote:

I long for the day when religion doesn't control U.S. politics.
I agree wholeheartedly.
liquix
Member
+51|6424|Peoples Republic of Portland
my cousin once said he hates asians. Boy o Boy, let's get me fired from my job now. Go watch Fox news, for this is some pretty lame and pointless information.
san4
The Mas
+311|6659|NYC, a place to live

liquix wrote:

my cousin once said he hates asians. Boy o Boy, let's get me fired from my job now. Go watch Fox news, for this is some pretty lame and pointless information.
Is your cousin your "spiritual mentor"? Did you go to church and listen to his sermons for 20 years?
liquix
Member
+51|6424|Peoples Republic of Portland

san4 wrote:

liquix wrote:

my cousin once said he hates asians. Boy o Boy, let's get me fired from my job now. Go watch Fox news, for this is some pretty lame and pointless information.
Is your cousin your "spiritual mentor"? Did you go to church and listen to his sermons for 20 years?
Nope, but I have grown up surrounded by enormously violent media, rap music, etc. Does that mean sling crack rock, want to slap a b*tch, shoot hundreds of people like Rambo? No it doesn't. You may as well take away free speech, because you guys certainly hate the hell out of that right. IF nobody criticizes the policies of this nation, then who is to stop the government from running wild?

I find it extraordinary, what kind of person do you guys want to be president for God's sake? Bush snorted COCAINE, and now y'all are going berserk over Obama's pastor? Let me remind you that his pastor, is not Obama...just in case you forgot.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6306|Oregon

liquix wrote:

Bush snorted COCAINE, and now y'all are going berserk over Obama's pastor?
Best line of the thread. Thank you liquix. And if any of you doubt that W did indeed snort... then go ahead and believe that... but I'll believe what I want, and I KNOW Bush did coke. Not that I really care... I don't care much about anyone's past drug use... but still...
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|5965|Truthistan
You know that if Obama didn't attend a church they would go after him for that.... he attends a church and the pastor says some stuff and they go after him for that... can't win for losing

I don't see anyone going after nut jobs preaching hatred against gays or abortion clinics as these are Republican voters and if someone went after those guys they would be shouting freedom of religion.

So I'll say it... whatever the pastor said in the church was in the exercise of his religion so back off OR maybe we can start putting all those hate mongers who stir up domesitc terrorism behind bars for what they are saying about homos and abortion.
Schittloaf
not fulla schit
+23|5873|MN
I prefer to drink coke!

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/image … l?tl=g32c6

Last edited by Schittloaf (2008-03-14 20:40:03)

san4
The Mas
+311|6659|NYC, a place to live

liquix wrote:

san4 wrote:

liquix wrote:

my cousin once said he hates asians. Boy o Boy, let's get me fired from my job now. Go watch Fox news, for this is some pretty lame and pointless information.
Is your cousin your "spiritual mentor"? Did you go to church and listen to his sermons for 20 years?
Nope, but I have grown up surrounded by enormously violent media, rap music, etc. Does that mean sling crack rock, want to slap a b*tch, shoot hundreds of people like Rambo? No it doesn't. You may as well take away free speech, because you guys certainly hate the hell out of that right. IF nobody criticizes the policies of this nation, then who is to stop the government from running wild?

I find it extraordinary, what kind of person do you guys want to be president for God's sake? Bush snorted COCAINE, and now y'all are going berserk over Obama's pastor? Let me remind you that his pastor, is not Obama...just in case you forgot.
You never declared violent media or rap music your "spiritual mentor." If you did, you shouldn't be President.

The pastor can speak his mind, and anyone is free to join his church. But the President of the United States should not be guided by someone who expresses hatred for the American government. It's not too much to ask.
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|6730|San Antonio, Texas

djphetal wrote:

And to Sniper3:
The facts are there, blacks in the USA do commit more violent crimes per capita than do whites, but a more telling statistic may me the relation to socio-economic state to crime... and the socio-economic state of African-Americans is still the victim of racism, both now and in centuries past. If you were implying that by design (literally, as far as you and anyone who believes in Intelligent Design is concerned... figuratively, as far as I and the rest of us who believe in Evolution are concerned), black people are more violent, then that is racist of you... and also makes me wonder where in the bible you get that opinion from?
So stating facts makes me a raciest? Go cry me a river, while your at it, call me a bigot. And I did not say by "design" blacks are more violent, but the situations they are brought up in cause them to be more violent, including their parents/grandparents.




siciliano732 wrote:

Interesting how, if you attend a church and a pastor is preaching these types of topics...if you didnt agree with him...wouldnt you leave? 

Why has Obama continued to attend.  Interesting.
No, he says he didn't know about these statements, only one or two of them. And that the pastor was "like an uncle", and was close to retiring. (Won't even go into the conspiracy theory of why he is retiring.)

siciliano732 wrote:

Or maybe it was his wife's comment about how she is proud of the US for the first time ever for their support of her hubby.  Interesting.
Sounds like she was paying attention in church though.


Kmarion wrote:

Asked and answered.

Barack wrote:

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue…

    Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he’s been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

    The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.
What else do you think he is going to say? Of course he's going to denounce the statements made by his pastor.


Barack wrote:

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation.
He just admitted that he did hear "one or two" controversial statements.


Barack wrote:

he has never been my political advisor
But he was a political advisor. Obama put him on an advisory committee for his campaign.
liquix
Member
+51|6424|Peoples Republic of Portland

san4 wrote:

liquix wrote:

san4 wrote:


Is your cousin your "spiritual mentor"? Did you go to church and listen to his sermons for 20 years?
Nope, but I have grown up surrounded by enormously violent media, rap music, etc. Does that mean sling crack rock, want to slap a b*tch, shoot hundreds of people like Rambo? No it doesn't. You may as well take away free speech, because you guys certainly hate the hell out of that right. IF nobody criticizes the policies of this nation, then who is to stop the government from running wild?

I find it extraordinary, what kind of person do you guys want to be president for God's sake? Bush snorted COCAINE, and now y'all are going berserk over Obama's pastor? Let me remind you that his pastor, is not Obama...just in case you forgot.
You never declared violent media or rap music your "spiritual mentor." If you did, you shouldn't be President.

The pastor can speak his mind, and anyone is free to join his church. But the President of the United States should not be guided by someone who expresses hatred for the American government. It's not too much to ask.
well, now we have ourselves a difficult situation. If a prospective president is "guided" by their chosen religious figurehead, are we then to consider every prospective president's religious leader? I am curious to see who Hillary and McCain find guidance in, if anyone. Of course I don't intend to commit a slippery slope fallacy here, but the the validity of my statement remains.

I can't help but see this entire fiasco as yet another religious gouge at Obama, first claims of Islam, now claims of his pastors feelings controlling Obama. Why does it even matter where he goes to church, or who, whatever happened to a separation of church and state. Why do we not discuss policy, rather than theoretical influence.

I have a tendency to get rather heated when wild and outrageous articles are sprung upon the forums, and I apologize for that.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6306|Oregon

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

djphetal wrote:

And to Sniper3:
The facts are there, blacks in the USA do commit more violent crimes per capita than do whites, but a more telling statistic may me the relation to socio-economic state to crime... and the socio-economic state of African-Americans is still the victim of racism, both now and in centuries past. If you were implying that by design (literally, as far as you and anyone who believes in Intelligent Design is concerned... figuratively, as far as I and the rest of us who believe in Evolution are concerned), black people are more violent, then that is racist of you... and also makes me wonder where in the bible you get that opinion from?
So stating facts makes me a raciest? Go cry me a river, while your at it, call me a bigot. And I did not say by "design" blacks are more violent, but the situations they are brought up in cause them to be more violent, including their parents/grandparents.
No, I said "if" you thought that 'by design' blacks were more violent, then you are a racist.
I agree... the situations blacks are brought up in cause them to be more violent.
I never said stating facts made you a racist. I agreed with your stats. A bigot? Maybe... it depends on one's definition. You say you "despise" homosexuals which is a fairly bigoted remark, but one person's single remark doesn't make them a bigot. You have to decide that for yourself.
Jibbles
Rifle Expert
+56|6600|Mexifornia, USA
Just remember,

"A government that is big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have"
                                                                                                                                     - Jefferson


Fun little quote to bear in mind for the upcoming election.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6381|'Murka

djphetal wrote:

InnerMonkey wrote:

I long for the day when religion doesn't control U.S. politics.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Do you people not see that this has ZERO to do with religion? The only linkage to religion is that it's Obama's former pastor of 20 years making these claims and saying these horrible things. If it were anyone else on his team that he had been associating with for the past 20 years who was found to spew this kind of hate-filled invective, it would cause the same reaction.

For the last time...it is not about religion.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

Barack wrote:

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue…

    Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he’s been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

    The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

What else do you think he is going to say? Of course he's going to denounce the statements made by his pastor.
You are right, what else would he say. You would be happier if he didn't speak out against his remarks? This type of attack is weak. When you can't finf anything real to smear a candidate, smear the people around him. Everyone is susceptible this type of asymmetrical attack.

Barack wrote:

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation.

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

He just admitted that he did hear "one or two" controversial statements.
How did you get that? Guess what.. I've heard controversial comments, am I racist?


Barack wrote:

he has never been my political advisor

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

But he was a political advisor. Obama put him on an advisory committee for his campaign.
I suggest you look at his role. He did not advise him on Policy.

This stuff is so transparent it almost laughable. One of the insinuations is that Barack is racist against white people. Here's some late breaking news. HIS MOM IS WHITE.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|6693|Eastern PA
Statements one of McCain's spiritual advisors:
John Hagee

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803140013?f=s_search
As Media Matters for America has noted, on the September 18, 2006, edition of National Public Radio's Fresh Air, host Terry Gross said to Hagee, "You said after Hurricane Katrina that it was an act of God, and you said 'when you violate God's will long enough, the judgment of God comes to you. Katrina is an act of God for a society that is becoming Sodom and Gomorrah reborn.' " She then asked, "Do you still think that Katrina is punishment from God for a society that's becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah?" Hagee responded:

    HAGEE: All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are -- were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.

...

A March 7, 1996, article (accessed via the Nexis database) in the San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to "meet with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a 'slave sale,' an East Side minister said Wednesday." The Express-News further reported:

    Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a "slave sale" to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, "The Cluster."

    The item was introduced with the sentence "Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone" and ended with "Make plans to come and go home with a slave."
More Hagee

http://www.forward.com/articles/12824/

On the Antichrist: “He’s going to make a seven-year treaty with Israel and set up his image to be worshiped in Israel. And that is where I’m convinced that a Jewish person who understands who he is shoots him, because the Bible says he’s wounded in the head and recovers wondrously, emulating the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. At this point in time when he comes back to life he has the personality of a Hitler. He now pursues the Jewish people. The Jewish people then go to Petra, which is a place in Jordan that is a natural fortress. And that God is going to provide for them there protection from him. And as he gets ready to pursue him, the Bible says that he, the Antichrist, hears tidings from the east that disturb him. The tidings from the east is that… the Chinese army is marching up the Euphrates River, 200 million of them, and they’re moving toward the battle of Armageddon, because they want the oil that will make them a superpower.”

On the Israeli-Palestinian peace process: “When the Annapolis Conference was being planned and the topic of dividing Jerusalem came up, one man asked me, ‘Where do you stand on this based on the Bible?’ I responded that ‘the plan of the Antichrist is to divide Jerusalem.’ If America puts pressure on Israel to divide Jerusalem we are following the blueprint of the Prince of Darkness. Amos 3:2 states that any nation that divides the Land of Israel will come under the severe judgment of God.”
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2007/3/5/105015/2167/
In "Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude To war" Hagee has stated that Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves by rebelling against God and that the Holocaust was God's way of forcing Jews to move to Israel where, Hagee predicts according to his interpretation of Biblical scripture, they will be mostly killed in the apocalyptic Mideast conflict Hagee's new lobbying group seems to be working to provoke and which John Hagee believes to be a necessary precondition for the "Rapture" that will lift Christians, but not Jews, bodily into Heaven to enjoy physical immortality amidst paradise.

...In his 2006 book "Jerusalem Countdown" that has sold over 1.1 million copies so far, Pastor John Hagee writes that Jews themselves are responsible for antisemitism, for their own persecution, and for the Holocaust itself :

    "It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God's chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day....

    How utterly repulsive, insulting, and heartbreaking to God for His chosen people to credit idols with bringing blessings He had showered upon the chosen people. Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of anti-Semitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come.... it rises from the judgment of God uppon his rebellious chosen people." ( "Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude To War", paperback edition, pages 92 and 93 )
The Prophet Jeremiah... paints a vivid picture of the human agents God intended to use to bring the Jewish people back to Israel:

'But now I will send for many fisherman', declares the Lord', 'and they will catch them. After that I will send for many hunters and they will hunt them down on every mountain and hill and from the crevices of the rocks.'

I believe this indicates the positive comes before the negative.....

First, God sent the fisherman to Israel. These were the Zionists, men like Theodore Herzl who called for the Jews of Europe and the World to come to Palestine and establish the Jewish state. The Jews were encouraged to escape while there was still time....

[Then] God sent the hunters. The hunter is one who pursues his target with force and fear. No one could see the horror of the Holocaust coming, but the force and fear of Hitler's Nazis drive the Jewish people back to the only home God ever intended for the Jews to have-Israel.... I am stricken with awe and wonder at his boundless love for Israel and the Jewish people...( "Jerusalem Countdown", paperback edition, pages 132 and 133 )

Last edited by Masques (2008-03-15 10:28:47)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6500|Global Command

Schittloaf wrote:

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

Better sig now?

And I dispise gays, on religious grounds. And for blacks, lets just say that the larger population of black people in an area, the higher the crime rate. Oh shit, did I just say that?!? I must be a raciest for looking at facts...
LOL funny how if anyone says any facts pointed towards Obama its either Racist or Praise to the Dem's .. typical bullshit.

I', just laughing my ass off watching the democrat party self destruct..

BTW anyone ever question the Clintons ... seems like people who oppose them end up mysteriously dying ... IE 2 shots to the head.

just look for yourself   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVpab2R_NU
please don't interject such obvious fecal matter into an otherwise mostly intelligent debate.
san4
The Mas
+311|6659|NYC, a place to live

Kmarion wrote:

You are right, what else would he say. You would be happier if he didn't speak out against his remarks? This type of attack is weak. When you can't finf anything real to smear a candidate, smear the people around him. Everyone is susceptible this type of asymmetrical attack.
This type of attack is very strong because Obama attended this crackpot's church for 20 years. That is a long time, and such a long association says something about Obama. The fact that Obama denounced everything his pastor said does not explain why he spent 20 years following a radical pastor.

No one else is susceptible to this type of attack because no one else running for President has such a long and close relationship with someone who has such radical views.
clogar
damn ain't it great to be a laxer
+32|5926|Minnesota
a tint of hypocrisy in there
Schittloaf
not fulla schit
+23|5873|MN

ATG wrote:

Schittloaf wrote:

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:


Better sig now?

And I dispise gays, on religious grounds. And for blacks, lets just say that the larger population of black people in an area, the higher the crime rate. Oh shit, did I just say that?!? I must be a raciest for looking at facts...
LOL funny how if anyone says any facts pointed towards Obama its either Racist or Praise to the Dem's .. typical bullshit.

I', just laughing my ass off watching the democrat party self destruct..

BTW anyone ever question the Clintons ... seems like people who oppose them end up mysteriously dying ... IE 2 shots to the head.

just look for yourself   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVpab2R_NU
please don't interject such obvious fecal matter into an otherwise mostly intelligent debate.
well since you dont believe me watch her ad on tv   http://www.doubleviking.com/videos/page1.html/8344.html
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6508|Long Island, New York

Schittloaf wrote:

ATG wrote:

Schittloaf wrote:


LOL funny how if anyone says any facts pointed towards Obama its either Racist or Praise to the Dem's .. typical bullshit.

I', just laughing my ass off watching the democrat party self destruct..

BTW anyone ever question the Clintons ... seems like people who oppose them end up mysteriously dying ... IE 2 shots to the head.

just look for yourself   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVpab2R_NU
please don't interject such obvious fecal matter into an otherwise mostly intelligent debate.
well since you dont believe me watch her ad on tv   http://www.doubleviking.com/videos/page1.html/8344.html
Are you serious when you post this shit? Are you gonna keep posting user-made videos and keep trying to pass them off as real?

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