I have already illustrated the error in thinking for you, why do you persist in denying the obvious (at least obvious to some people)? ... I was having fun with the Kantian thing in-itself problem (and errors of thought associated with it). Together with the problem people don't understand about subjective creations of mind vs the reality external of in-mind subjective creations.WinterWayfarer wrote:
No no no no no. There is oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere and you know it.topal63 wrote:
Another way of seeing the WRONGness of this statement is this way.nukchebi0 wrote:
There is oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere.
The oxygen is NOT in the Earth's atmosphere; the atomic element oxygen is in; where everything else we know is in. Space or rather Space-time. The Earth is in spacetime. The oxygen is in spacetime. You are in spacetime.
The atomic element oxygen is not in the atmosphere, rather it is in spacetime.
The atmosphere is a label for a collection of gases, water-vapor, etc, as elements gravitationally attracted to the mass of the Earth of which both: the Earth's atmosphere and the Earth exist in spacetime.Since this is a measurement and that is what your referring to: a measurement of temperature... it should be clear to you that all measurements are temporary and fleeting moments in time.laetrile wrote:
Prove this wrong:
+1C = +1C, where C refers to Celsius. Assuming that decimal digits are all exactly the same, 0 > to any figure you see fit.
1 might = 1, inside your brain, but subjective reality cannot be demonstrated to be real; or reality. So you have to set aside mental analytic constructs that exist only in-mind to examine the reality of this statement.
Does 1 ever equal 1 in reality, and what does it even mean if I measure 1 of anything. In reality the measurement itself is subject to error. It might be 1.00001 or 0.999997 or some other number of measure the moment you take the reading so,
+1C might actually be = +1.00001C or +0.999997C or +1.00000000000075 or some other value.
And if you repeat the measurements just moments later it might be this,
+1C might actually be = +0.9979998C or +1.00000097C or +1.000000104535 or some other value.
And not at any time were we able to establish that +1C was exactly +1C, or what the actual exact value was. And measuring any exact value in reality is basically impossible.
The construct ---> this = this, exist only in your mind, in reference to analytic things (like a math equality).
In reality the measure is approximate or: ≈. ... Thus +1C DOES NOT EXACTLY = +1C
In reality it is incorrect to say what you've stated, it is correct to state it this way,
+1C ≈ +1C.
+1C = +1C. +1C does not equal +1.000000001C (<-- EXACTLY! Yet you continue to misunderstand +1C is not known exactly, you don't know what the tempurature is exactly when you measure it)
In saying that "this = this exists in only your mind", you are quite right, because everything exists within our thoughts, but there are rules to math, and one of these rules is called the Reflexive Postulate, in which any number is equal to itself. In symbols: a = a. Therefore, +1C = +1C.
... in reality, you can't PROVE that +1C when measured is anything other than an inexact answer. It can be precise to a certain decimal place, but not a representation of the exact value. And if you can't PROVE that it is +1C you can't say that it is, or assume that it is. This is basic philosophy:101.MakeAnAttemptToUnderstandTheProblem wrote:
... first off everything - you know of - exists IN spacetime. The atmosphere is not some kind of container you can put things IN. Or that has any reality to it - that it (something) can be IN the atmosphere. You might not like language because it isn't precise, but that is too bad for you.
"Atmosphere" is a label for something not a thing in-itself, it IS a collection of gases that are gravitationally attracted to the mass of the Earth. Team is a label for people working together - there is no reality to the concept of team external of the members. There is no reality to the concept of "atmosphere" external of its members (the gases that make it up). As I already said "atmosphere" is a label (for a collection, not a real thing it-self, nor is it a container things are in - it is a label).
+1C exist only in your mind, you cannot demonstrate the reality of an exact measurement - ever.
It is always an approximate value and never an exact measure. And it stands as was already stated.
+1C = +1C, exists only in-mind, as a subjective thought, as an analytic construct,
The TRUTH in reality is (that the measure is not exact):
+1C ≈ +1C (is not exact, it is an inexact approximation).
You cannot measure +1C exact. And reality is not what you think it is. It is not dependent upon you, you are dependent upon it.
Atmosphere is a label (for a collection of other things), like team is a label, they aren't actually a real tangible thing. The members that make up a collection they are something (oxygen, water vapor; or in the team instance: the individual people) - the label is not. This also is basic philosophy:101.
And a more correct way to express the ("atmosphere" label + member statement) could be: oxygen can be a member of the collection known by the label "atmosphere" that indicates primarily gases (& water vapor); gravitationally attracted to the Earth, that are above the surface of the Earth.
Anyways if you can't see/understand what someone else is saying, that there is almost always another perspective to see something from, and from that perspective it could be viewed as wrong - you probably aren't going to have any fun with this thread - or understand it. ... Cheers mate!
Note to the DU: "Yes, I love that thread at least as much as NooBesT does." Uh, my fine Finnish friend you need to revise this to: "Yes, I love that thread at least as much as NooBesT does - and topal likes it too!"
Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-26 22:25:36)
