BF2S Forums New info about next patch: 1.2

No fix for 203...

My original post:

CackNBallz wrote:

I think the AA is pretty effective against helicopters as is. Less missiles for the attack chopper means more time the attack helicopter needs to reload and less time shredding infantry, probably means more action for the gunner though as the ammo can last a good time if used efficiently.  That is fine, the TV missile lifespan shortened? Hmmm... It is because the missile flies so far that I have shot down jets with it, among other cool terrain hugging missile shots that kill tanks.  Oh well... I guess I can live with that.

Air power is too powerful, and even I as a half-decent helicopter pilot can concede that helicopters still stay too long in the air. I can survive sometimes survive 3 SRAW hits (I guess the last ones are glancing hits to the tail or something) and still make it back for repairs.

Everything else I think is pretty good for the game.  Especially the fix for not shooting while jumping, this alone will help negate the n00b tubers from jumping while firing their launchers, causing them to kill themselves and negating any points gain (+2 for kill -2 for suicide).  I think the keyword here is "shoot" whereas grenades, flashbangs, C4 and the knife is a throw or a stab for the latter.

I reload first and then sprint a split second later, so this is just a nice little bonus.  In regards to the weapon accuracy, I think they are going to change that where you aim is where you hit for the sniper rifles, I am guessing more in lines to the M24 accuracy.  The LMGs are probably going to be tweaked to have a closer spray of bullets to what you see through the iron sight.

All this is good to let the skillful players flourish and force the exploiters to use different tactics.

topal63 wrote:

AA is utterly ineffective against mid-range & beyond targets/or moving targets.
LOCKS result in nothing unless the guy sits their & takes the hit.

USUALLY the AA looses the lock on the opposing target are re-targets friendly vehicles & destroys them.

The AA isn't utterly ineffective against helicopters at mid- or long-range.  Mid-range is where I make most of my kills, even if they are using flares moving in all three axes (plural of axis), the trick is to aim well above them and sometimes shoot before you get a lock as the AA algorithm seems to seek out the nearest heat signature below the missile; I have shot down a few jets using this tactic as well, especiall when they are doing a crawling strafing or bombing run.  Long range is when they are retreating in a relatively stable vector., again aim high with a lock and you will most likely get them.

I refrain from shooting my stingers if there is friendlies in the sky that is in my FOV using the map (with a quick scan of the map hitting the M key) as well as the mini-map and seeing my cone of vision on the map.

topal63 wrote:

As for bunny-hop throwing C4 - that is a skill - to be able from a high postion run a throw 14 onto a moving
tank. Your idea of what is skill-less makes little sense; or nothing was offered as real opinion.

+

Bunny-hopping at close range merely needs the altitude of the splash damaged raised; therefor you bunny-hop & noob-tube; which is less annoyingly refered to as: jumping and shooting; would result in you not surviving . . . AND/BUT! Some minor-obstacles require you to hit the space bar to get over.

Jumping over a wall  + shooting an enemy target with a grenade launcher thats about 15-20 meters in front of you is a skill.

I never contested against throwing C4, I use it myself and that is how I got the Veteran Explosive Ordinance Badge.  It is a skill, to sprint forward, jump and throw, press back then right- and immediately left-click and take minimal damage to yourself.

I was simply stating the the fix specifically stated the inability to shoot while jumping.  Throwing and stabbing is different than shooting.  Re-read my post and you will see that I didn't mention anything bad about C4, grenades or knives, just stating that the utilization of those weapons is different from firearms; I just neglected to put it in another paragraph to separate the negativity of the n00b tubing to the difference stated above. Although, seeing as it was in the context of that particular fix I didn't see the need.

Shooting a grenade by jumping doesn't increase the blast radius, it just gives you a better angle to shoot at their feet and also take less splash damage yourself.  I do concede that not being able to shoot while jumping is not a great fix to the problem as I have killed many armoured vehicles by jumping over a wall and shooting them with SRAWs, but the immediate benefit is to use the grenade launcher as it is meant to be used for medium ranges, entrenched infantry, light transport vehicles, damaging hovering helicopters, and for killing groups of infantry.

You either misconstrued what I was attempting to state or you don't understand proper semantics.

topal63 wrote:

As far as fiixes:
1.) AA needs fixing. . . it has gotten worse with patches.
2.) Browser is to slow.
3.) Tanks rattle to peices on some maps when going over small hills.
+
Tanks are not properly equiped to defend themeselves against chopper attacks.
Higher lift on gun + possible leed indicator for both MG and main-gun + one shot kill on a chopper
would make attacking the tank from behind a must for choppers; and give a little bit of fight to a tank on map with chopper

RIGHT NOW tanks are easy-ass kills - for choppers.

4.) Air power is over powered in the game over ground defenses against it
+
There is not enough serious dog-fighting going on in the sky.

MAPS are to hard to change - to give ground defense more cover from splash damage; from
bombs; arty; etc.; so another soultion to reduce over-powered air assaults are:

. . . the #1 AA fix +
The planes should take more damage from each other + faster; when air to air combat is happening.

1) Yes it needs to be fixed against jets.  Against helicopters the AA is fine.
2) I agree.
3) I agree, tanks should not be damaged from bumps and terrain, this problem primarily affects the Abram for some reason.  No lead indicator needed, that is what tracers in the machineguns are for, every fifth round fired is a tracer.  For aiming the main turret, you just need practice to find the right elevation for the shell trajectory to hit its target.  Less missiles in the attack helicopter will lessen the amount of tank destroyed by lesser skilled pilots alone.  The new AA will hopefully help to prevent brazen attacks by attack choppers as well.  That is of course if your team is working together.
4) I believe dog fighting isn't done because it takes a lot of effort to chase after another skilled pilot for a few minutes at a time to only get 2 points for the kill while they could be gaining more points themselves by their normal bombing and machinegun strafing runs. Hopefully the missiles will better track the jets after a lock to encourage more dogfighting as that would increase the fun factor a lot.

More terrain cover and objects are always a plus!

Ok, I only bothered reading half of that, and quite honestly it just makes me laugh.

All of the noobs that complain about Bunny hopping dolphin diving, and the rest, your still going to suck just as much after the patch as you do before the patch, let me explain.

Most people started playing this game, died lots learnt to bunny hop and became good.

The rest of you cant bunny hop and therefore suck, and yes everybody that complains about it I have seen them trying to do it, but its merely a series of jumps, rather than actual bunny hopping, and because you cant do it you die and complain about it. >>> Next point.

Those that are good and can bunny hop can obviously adapt and are much better gamers, than those that cant.

Therefore, when the patch comes out and makes all the changes including no bunny hopping etc. It would be very reasonable to beleive that they AGAIN will adapt and still be much better than you.

By all means its fine to complain and say oh the bunny hopping is bad, stupid coding, unrealistic. etc.

But to whine about how you only die because people bunnyhop and that youll be so much better when its removed is crap. My 2 Cnts

Where am I whining that I die from bunnyhoppers? Quote from me or someone else where they complain about dying from bunnyhoppers. 

I kill bunnyhoppers most of the time.  It is very predictable where they are going to land, using a pistol or knife tends to kill them quickly rather than with a rifle going fully auto.  Once someone gets the hang of actually taking their time and aiming which you must do with the pistol, then it will help you with hitting them with a machinegun. They also get very angry if you consistently knife them while they are jumping and can't hit you with the assault rifle spraying everywhere but me.

I don't like bunnyhopping because it looks stupid and it tells me that that player has little to no understanding of infantry skills.  If you have to rely on jumping around to save your neck then you aren't staying aware of your surroundings, you aren't moving from cover to cover, you aren't in a squad and you most likely have a grenade launcher in your hands. 

If you are on the ground you can move laterally, if you are jumping you have a predictable trajectory of where you are going to land.  Sure you can avoid fire from novice players for the time being, but anyone else you will dead.  Never go prone if you are in CQC, you lose your mobility, if anything use crouch

Try to learn circle strafing with a pistol, it is a very accurate weapon and you can drop someone in a hurry.  Try going behind cover and sneaking up and ambushing an enemy.  You may get more out of this kind of gaming experience with using proper infantry tactics, especially with Special Forces.

"Those that are good and can bunny hop can obviously adapt and are much better gamers, than those that can't. Therefore, when the patch comes out and makes all the changes including no bunny hopping etc. It would be very reasonable to beleive that they AGAIN will adapt and still be much better than you."

Well if they are better gamers in the first place, why even bother using such a superfluous and practically useless tactic?  What are the benefits of jumping around constantly? I will have to agree that if someone is saying they will play better when it is removed is crap.  I am saying that when it is removed the gameplay experience will be better for everyone when those bunnyhoppers actually play properly (heck they may even learn to be a better gamer because they don't have to resort to it.)

It nice to see EA is finally going to address some of the issues in BF2, it makes me happy and I may actually buy SF now that they are fixing some long outstanding crap.

I don't like bunnyhopping because it looks stupid and it tells me that that player has little to no understanding of infantry skills.  If you have to rely on jumping around to save your neck then you aren't staying aware of your surroundings, you aren't moving from cover to cover, you aren't in a squad and you most likely have a grenade launcher in your hands.

That's one of the most stupid things i've ever heard. Okay not really, but it's pretty close to that.

Well state why it is one of the most stupid things you have heard of and perhaps your statement will have merit and be more conducive to the discussion at hand.

I dislike bunnyhopping, and I stated it like that as a hyperbole.  Of course, not every bunnyhopper does all those things, but I have seen that a predominant proportion of them tend to have a grenade launcher in their hands.  These same people are a liability to their squadmates if they are willing to fire off a grenade in close proximity to themselves, in turn, they are usually a lone wolf.

If I come around a corner and some guy just starts spazzing out and jumping all over the place shooting off a flurry of rounds but not hitting me, they lack proper infantry combat skillsets.  If they are at mid-range, and I start shooting at them and they start hopping around, I know where they are headed because jumping around gives momentum in a certain direction and it is harder to correct or change direction than if they were on the ground to apply a force to the ground to change the vector. It's simple physics.

They would also not need to jump around if they were behind cover, and moving from cover to cover.

Is it still an inane statement now?

This new patch is going to be great.I like the changes which will not affect my gaming style in the least.

AH HA you all are retarded, thats a King/Super cobra, not the one in the game muwhahaha, i dont even know what the hell we are talking about any more.  Anyway the point was that Muffy said it should have 72 missiles, well they are rockets and if it had that many you couldnt put TV guided on it.  *Sigh*

How about having the option of picking your payload before you took off?  Wouldnt that be cool?

76 Rockets or 38 rockets and 8 tv missiles  that would be sweet and we wouldnt have to argue in this forum?

Last edited by dobbs (2005-12-14 13:45:59)

Just imagine firing off over 70 missiles!!! It would be a gatling gun rate of missiles fired at a convoy of armour.

You would hardly be able to see anything with all the vapour trails, smoke, debris and destruction going on.  Not for the weak videocards!

dobbs wrote:

How about having the option of picking your payload before you took off?  Wouldnt that be cool?

76 Rockets or 38 rockets and 8 tv missiles  that would be sweet and we wouldnt have to argue in this forum?

Not really, because then the gunner is given almost no use.  The gun is good, but face it, without TV guided missiles, the gunner loses more than half his functionality.

If you want something with 76 rockets, make a single-seater helo.  Other than that, the current layout (and the new layout) will FORCE teamwork between the helo gunner and pilot, something which is currently lacking with gung-ho pilots who just want to kill everything themselves.

Operator_Stavros wrote:

All you people with low reading and research comprehension that are arguing about the choppers, read this

The density of this crowd is amazing, we can't even tell apart TV missiles and unguided rockets.  The comment made from EA is pretty dumb too seeing as he called the rockets "missiles". 

Now to be completely clear what type of ordinance is on the chopper that you cary 14 of? Hmm shouldn't be too hard.....Still thinking?  Well you carry 14 rockets in a single "reload" on your chopper.  SO they are lessening the amount of rockets for a single reload.  Now I'm guessing they are prolly keeping the amount of reloads the same.

Now on the the Real life chopper.  It has 4 weapon hardpoint on the stubby winglets.  If you are carrying rockets and Guided missiles, then you only get two rocket pods which is 19+19=38 unguided rockets.

So ingame now we have 14 rockets and 3 reloads right(could be two, im not that much of a chopper whore I forget)  That makes 42 rockets, more  that the real life version would carry with the same loadout.  SO they are going to change that and make it only 8 rockets x 3 reloads = 24 rockets 

Now I know I had to get all third grade with you on the math, but it amazes me some of the fallacies I read her...

Now if I'm wrong I'll eat crow, no need to be all STFU n00b, i p0wner j00! Until then SHUT UP ABOUT THE "BALANCED" NERFED CHOPPERS

*EDit*  Damn by the time I typed that whole spiel.  The special ed ppl edited their posts to actualy make coherent thoughts, and 6 more ppl posted their one liners.

Please don' t lump everyone in this "discussion" together as "people with low reading and research comprehension".  My latest post pointed out a lot of the things you say here; I just did it a little more diplomatically.  The only thing I was unclear on was the number of unguided rockets available per reload, which I asked about.
EDIT Never mind...

Last edited by atlvolunteer (2005-12-14 14:24:35)

- Helicopter now carry 8 missiles rather than 14
- TV-Guided missile now have a shorter range
- Hit points on all air vehicles has been reduced
- AA missile lock has been improved

This is gonna make all the chopper whores mad, but it doesn't really apply to me because I play maps where I don't have to deal with it (i.e. Karkand )

- Support kits have had their primary weapons adjusted for accuracy
- Sniper kits have had their primary weapons adjusted for accuracy
- Anti-Tank kits have had their primary weapons adjusted for accuracy

Does this mean better or worse? The default weapons for the support and AT aren't really used too much, and the sniper weapons ought to be improved.

- "Dolphin Diving" is no longer possible
- Players can no longer jump and shoot at the same time
- "Prone Spamming" is now fixed
- "Sprint exploit" is now fixed

I don't really see these kind of exploits a lot, so I'm not really sure. I use them when I'm running from a tank, or I'm trying to kill that assualt guy who snuck up behind me while I'm sniping. I think that the problem with noob tubers could be solved a la America's Army, where the grenade have a minimum range.

- The Sa80 weapon has been improved
- The G3A3 weapon has been improved
- Reload while sprinting has been enabled

The SA80 family of weapons is really shitty in real life but they really should improve them in the game. The G3A3 ought to have its accuracy improved. But with regards to good gameplay, I'm not sure how it will pan out.

- Chinese and MEC APCs can now shoot through penetrable materials
- Damage decreased for the M134

I don't see why this would be a bad thing...

- Medic defibrillator paddles have been adjusted. They now reload while not in use.

Now this would help me because I like to medic whore on Karkand

Okay, just wanted to add my thoughts on this...I have read the entire post.

By the way, I think we should skip the racist slurs like "chink"...this isn't the place.