M8 project cancelledcyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
compared to other largely used guns which would you pick IRL? AK101, M16/M4 or G36C?Lasdferret wrote:
Have you actually ever used the M16 or M4, the Vietnam version of the M16 sucked, but our modern versions all are quite amazing. The only thing the AKs have going for them is adaptability.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
USA: why? the tanks, planes and ships. new ones are decades ahead compared to other countries. for guns... yeah m16 suck ass and m4 is decent, now they're developing the M8 which pwnzorizes all guns
But I too go with USA, were quite farther ahead than anyone (thankfully)
SCAR is much better than the M4's and M8 looks good for now
for WW2:
ze germans. ME262 pwned every plane in the sky, tiger tanked pwned everything (sadly theyre not mass produced like the panzers)
Poll
Best Weapons making countries?
| Usa | 34% | 34% - 75 | ||||
| Uk | 10% | 10% - 23 | ||||
| Germany | 32% | 32% - 71 | ||||
| USSR/Russia | 12% | 12% - 27 | ||||
| Belgium | 2% | 2% - 5 | ||||
| France | 0% | 0% - 0 | ||||
| Italy | 0% | 0% - 0 | ||||
| Switzerland | 0% | 0% - 2 | ||||
| Austria | 1% | 1% - 3 | ||||
| Others | 5% | 5% - 13 | ||||
| Total: 219 | ||||||
I'm going to have to vote outside the border and say Germany without a doubt. Germany has been one of the biggest innovators in the world of weaponry in the last 200 years. This fact is even more evident when you take into account the quality, ruggedness and reliability of their weapons. Everything from rifles, pistols, explosives, bombs, tanks, aircraft, APC's etc etc etc, Germany was way ahead of the times in all fields.
Germany FTWx100.
Germany FTWx100.
Dude get your facts down, Italy has Beretta, Belgium has FN, and Switzerland has SIG, all FUCKING great gun makers. The AK 47 isn't accurate beyond 300m, and Russian tanks and vehicles get dick slapped by any country the go against. The Hind is a flying school bus, the Chechinians knock them down like they are going out of style. The SRAW project was canned, so was the M8 project. The M16A4 is fucking great(used it in Iraq), M4A4 is over rated, the new HK 416 (HK's version of the M4) is a sweet little piece of gear. SAS is goodKuSTaV wrote:
The good things of...
USA = Aircraft, ships, tanks, arty, SRAW.
UK = SAS
Germany = H&K
USSR/Russia = Vehicles overall, weapons
Belgium = wtf
France = d00d, fr4nc3 is t3h suxx0rz!!11 Ever heard of the FAMAS? That was a bs gun
Italy = ...
Switzerland = ...
Austria = Steyr
What weapons come from Belgium, Italy and Switzerland? I cant think of any.
USA is dominant in technology, but Russia has the productive ability to make 1000s of tanks, weapons in just few months, even weeks perhaps.
And what happened to china? You don't wanna screw with them with over 2 000 000 in their army alone.
The SAS are THE best special forces group of all time.
Germany has H&K, and if the US adopts the MP5 etc, they must be pretty f***ing good!
The rest suck from what no weapons i know, except for the Steyr, in which many countries have. Australia has their own version i think, but its called the Austeyr. (?)
but the SBS, Delta Force and SEALS are just as good. The FAMAS after a couple of revamps has one of the highest ROF around and its a pretty good shot too.
15lbs what fucking M16 you using? I had a M16A4 w/ACOG, w/PAQ-2 and surefire and it maybe topped out at 10lbsKyouteki wrote:
The M-16 already has a single person accuracy rating of up to 500 yards, and a group rating of up to 800, so no...i doubt the US will be switching, and the M4 has the same single person rating, but it's group person rating is slightly less, and it only weighs 4 pounds as opposed to the M-16's 15 pounds. I know this from experience.Miller wrote:
Corner shot is good yeah, but it uses a pistol, though can be modified to use those nade launchers... The new Isrealli assault rifle is what the USA should start using now IMO. I mean come on, as accurate as a sniper at 300 yards? Can't bad for such a small gun.haffeysucks wrote:
Belgium, who doesn't love FN?!
The Corner shot I believe is Israeli, and another gun I saw on Futureweapons that is very compact yet has the accuracy of a sniper rifle, I forgot the name.
His experience told him soSgtHeihn wrote:
15lbs what fucking M16 you using? I had a M16A4 w/ACOG, w/PAQ-2 and surefire and it maybe topped out at 10lbsKyouteki wrote:
The M-16 already has a single person accuracy rating of up to 500 yards, and a group rating of up to 800, so no...i doubt the US will be switching, and the M4 has the same single person rating, but it's group person rating is slightly less, and it only weighs 4 pounds as opposed to the M-16's 15 pounds. I know this from experience.Miller wrote:
Corner shot is good yeah, but it uses a pistol, though can be modified to use those nade launchers... The new Isrealli assault rifle is what the USA should start using now IMO. I mean come on, as accurate as a sniper at 300 yards? Can't bad for such a small gun.
4 lb M4.... good lord... not even a carbon receivered AR15 with a pencil barrel reaches 4 lbs
the U.S.,UK,russia
Ahhh no, the Germans didn't think they would need the A-bomb, so they diverted resources away from it, until it was too late, and the Manhatten Project in 1942 well before the war was over.LostFate wrote:
Germany would have had it first if they had'nt sabatarged the germans heavy water or what ever its called.Vampira_NB wrote:
USA for creating the A-Bomb
PLUS + it was the scientists from germany who created the a-bomb the americans took them to american after germany was defeated
Yeah no kidding, 4lb M4, just went on to Colt's web site, M4 unloaded 5.9lbs. Maybe he is thinking of the Bushmaster Carbon 4, ahhh no wait a min its 5.8lbs unloaded
Last edited by SgtHeihn (2006-08-07 21:15:36)
Switzerland, they build the Sig series of rifles which just kick ass. Specifically the 551 and the 552. It's kind of a combination of an AK an M16 a FAL and a G3, all the good points of each gun and none of the bad. Built to swiss watch making presicion too.
Russia And Germany
*sigh* Okay I know I'm going to leave a lot out.
Lets go back farther. Say Revolution era, everything was pretty equal. Brits had the most powerful navy, US had the most powerful frigets. Brits had numbers, US used accruacy (hunted a lot in the colonies).
Moving on, Civil War era. US used the first "true" submarines (be it the Alligator was designed by a French, but the French didn't want it so he went left them). Also, first turreted ships (monitor, although I thik they should've have ran with the idea instead of letting it die).
WWI (skipped a lot I know):
US: M1 (8 Shots, very accurate, semi-auto); Tommy Gun (auto or semi-auto, Germans learned to hate the sound of it); the Browning series (mentioned before, BAR if you got hit you're going down, 0.50 and 0.30 Machine Gun.); Springfield (Sniper, very accurate, although I like the German one better) Aircraft: P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51 etc, B-17, B-24, B-25, B-29. Also the US devolped a Jet fighter although it never saw action. Ships: Okay, just too many to list, we built a lot of them. Tanks: Sherman (sad sad sad) then we got the Pershing (end of war, the Germans learned what we felt like when the shells bounced off the armor).
Brits: Lee-Enfield (bolt-action), Stem(auto and semi), Bren (like the BAR somewhat). Aircraft, Lancaster, Spitfire, Hurrican, Typhon. Ships: Similar to the US's but their Carriers had steel decks (smart thinking). Tanks: Challenger, Churchill.
Germans: Mauser, MP42, MP44 (The MPs where nice but lacked the numbers), Luger, MG42, MG44 (Machine guns prone to overheating, barrel need to be changed every 2 minutes [costly time in a firefight]), Aircraft, MEs, BF-109, FW-190, ME-262 (was used wrong for too long to have any affect), Junkers, Stukas. Ships: U-Boats, Pocket Battleships (famous one is the Bizmark). Tanks: Tigers, Panthers, King Tiger. (Panthers where the most feared) Although, the Germans just never produced in the same quanities as the Allies could, also their tanks would break down, whereas the Sherman was easy to repair and kept on working. The Germans were too precise in their engineering which lead to relieablity problems.
Russians: Gun wise similar to the Germans, their Sub-machine gun had a drum of 71 pistol shots. Aircraft: IL-2, Yak, MiG, some weird bombers that I call flying bricks but carry to midget planes, they used a lot of US planes that we sent them mainly P-40s. Tanks: T-34 and the Joseph Stalin. Ships: err...
Japanese: Pretty much crap. They believe the spirit of the warrior would overcome the crappiness of the weapons they produced.
Cold War era: The Russians produced a lot of AK-47s then flooded the world market with them, thats why you see so many of them, not because they're great weapons but because they're very cheap. US M-16 prone to Jamming when first introduced but problems where fixed, overall the M-16 turned out to be a better weapon (don't give me only 3 shot burst crap, they did that so the soldiers wouldn't waste ammo, aiming is good). As far as planes went, US manuverablity vs. Russia Speed. Tanks, Russia's really never kept up with the US after 1980. Europe still produced some amazing weapons (not going to list because I'm getting sleepy).
Modern Day. US still produces high quality weapons and are always looking for the next thing in warfare (although they could do that a little faster). The Brits specialize in accuracy. The Germans just build big guns (what's with that? Seriously. Paris Gun, Big Berthas and now that current mobile one). Russians haven't done much AK-74 is about it. Everyone has pretty much said everything.
If we are looking for historically the best weapons, the US wins. Reading back on my post, I know I left a lot out, if you want to add something or debate I'll be willing to talk. lol. *sigh* I would just upload a complete history of warfare, if my HDD didn't crash. Although, I still have my paper copy so I might scan that, its very long but very detailed, yes it is legal for me to scan it as I wrote it for my HS Independent Study.
Lets go back farther. Say Revolution era, everything was pretty equal. Brits had the most powerful navy, US had the most powerful frigets. Brits had numbers, US used accruacy (hunted a lot in the colonies).
Moving on, Civil War era. US used the first "true" submarines (be it the Alligator was designed by a French, but the French didn't want it so he went left them). Also, first turreted ships (monitor, although I thik they should've have ran with the idea instead of letting it die).
WWI (skipped a lot I know):
US: M1 (8 Shots, very accurate, semi-auto); Tommy Gun (auto or semi-auto, Germans learned to hate the sound of it); the Browning series (mentioned before, BAR if you got hit you're going down, 0.50 and 0.30 Machine Gun.); Springfield (Sniper, very accurate, although I like the German one better) Aircraft: P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51 etc, B-17, B-24, B-25, B-29. Also the US devolped a Jet fighter although it never saw action. Ships: Okay, just too many to list, we built a lot of them. Tanks: Sherman (sad sad sad) then we got the Pershing (end of war, the Germans learned what we felt like when the shells bounced off the armor).
Brits: Lee-Enfield (bolt-action), Stem(auto and semi), Bren (like the BAR somewhat). Aircraft, Lancaster, Spitfire, Hurrican, Typhon. Ships: Similar to the US's but their Carriers had steel decks (smart thinking). Tanks: Challenger, Churchill.
Germans: Mauser, MP42, MP44 (The MPs where nice but lacked the numbers), Luger, MG42, MG44 (Machine guns prone to overheating, barrel need to be changed every 2 minutes [costly time in a firefight]), Aircraft, MEs, BF-109, FW-190, ME-262 (was used wrong for too long to have any affect), Junkers, Stukas. Ships: U-Boats, Pocket Battleships (famous one is the Bizmark). Tanks: Tigers, Panthers, King Tiger. (Panthers where the most feared) Although, the Germans just never produced in the same quanities as the Allies could, also their tanks would break down, whereas the Sherman was easy to repair and kept on working. The Germans were too precise in their engineering which lead to relieablity problems.
Russians: Gun wise similar to the Germans, their Sub-machine gun had a drum of 71 pistol shots. Aircraft: IL-2, Yak, MiG, some weird bombers that I call flying bricks but carry to midget planes, they used a lot of US planes that we sent them mainly P-40s. Tanks: T-34 and the Joseph Stalin. Ships: err...
Japanese: Pretty much crap. They believe the spirit of the warrior would overcome the crappiness of the weapons they produced.
Cold War era: The Russians produced a lot of AK-47s then flooded the world market with them, thats why you see so many of them, not because they're great weapons but because they're very cheap. US M-16 prone to Jamming when first introduced but problems where fixed, overall the M-16 turned out to be a better weapon (don't give me only 3 shot burst crap, they did that so the soldiers wouldn't waste ammo, aiming is good). As far as planes went, US manuverablity vs. Russia Speed. Tanks, Russia's really never kept up with the US after 1980. Europe still produced some amazing weapons (not going to list because I'm getting sleepy).
Modern Day. US still produces high quality weapons and are always looking for the next thing in warfare (although they could do that a little faster). The Brits specialize in accuracy. The Germans just build big guns (what's with that? Seriously. Paris Gun, Big Berthas and now that current mobile one). Russians haven't done much AK-74 is about it. Everyone has pretty much said everything.
If we are looking for historically the best weapons, the US wins. Reading back on my post, I know I left a lot out, if you want to add something or debate I'll be willing to talk. lol. *sigh* I would just upload a complete history of warfare, if my HDD didn't crash. Although, I still have my paper copy so I might scan that, its very long but very detailed, yes it is legal for me to scan it as I wrote it for my HS Independent Study.
One thing Stags, the Monitors served in WW1, the US used them off the East Coast to protect against Uboat attacks, don't know if any saw action
Last edited by SgtHeihn (2006-08-07 23:08:28)
Like I said, I probably forgot a lot... and I do mean a lot. Just remember the british also had a Jet the Comet (never saw action but still).
Also, I forgot the Japanese Aircraft, but I assume you all know about them. *sigh*
FYI, the Jet engine was almost invented during WWI as engineers where testing out ways to improve the Turbo Prop design, but the war ended before they got it.
Also, I forgot the Japanese Aircraft, but I assume you all know about them. *sigh*
FYI, the Jet engine was almost invented during WWI as engineers where testing out ways to improve the Turbo Prop design, but the war ended before they got it.
Nahh man wasn't downin ya, you had a lot of good points, BTW dont forget the V1(first cruise missle) and the V2(the first balistic missle)Stags wrote:
Like I said, I probably forgot a lot... and I do mean a lot. Just remember the british also had a Jet the Comet (never saw action but still).
Also, I forgot the Japanese Aircraft, but I assume you all know about them. *sigh*
FYI, the Jet engine was almost invented during WWI as engineers where testing out ways to improve the Turbo Prop design, but the war ended before they got it.
Also for the guy who brought up the Corner shot, the Germans had one in WW2
Last edited by SgtHeihn (2006-08-07 23:45:41)
Your a complete idot. First you say numbers don't mean jack, then you say the t-90s would loose because there is hardly any of them.Capt. Foley wrote:
Numbers dont mean SHIT, our equipment and tactics are way ahead of all Russian/Chinese equipment. Also you may say that the Russians have things like the T90 which could MABEY be considered equal to the M1A2 but I highly doubt that because of the fact that they have hardly ANY of them and they would get there asses kicked before the probably even made it to the front.ToXiC888 wrote:
Are we talking quality or numbers? For quality it would be the US/Germany and it would be Russia for numbers.
And i beleive numbers do mean jack. Russia sent 6 million troops through europe to deaft germany, the allies would of had a few million and in the pacific, the allies had a neraly 2 million strong army ready to invade Japan. History and geography aren't taught in America aren't they? Im amazed america even found its way too Europe.
Last edited by Cold Fussion (2006-08-07 23:54:30)
Is English taught in Sydney, Australia?Cold Fussion wrote:
Your a complete idot. First you say numbers don't mean jack, then you say the t-90s would loose because there is hardly any of them.Capt. Foley wrote:
Numbers dont mean SHIT, our equipment and tactics are way ahead of all Russian/Chinese equipment. Also you may say that the Russians have things like the T90 which could MABEY be considered equal to the M1A2 but I highly doubt that because of the fact that they have hardly ANY of them and they would get there asses kicked before the probably even made it to the front.ToXiC888 wrote:
Are we talking quality or numbers? For quality it would be the US/Germany and it would be Russia for numbers.
And i beleive numbers do mean jack. Russia sent 6 million troops through europe to deaft germany, the allies would of had a few million and in the pacific, the allies had a neraly 2 million strong army ready to invade Japan. History and geography aren't taught in America aren't they? Im amazed america even found its way too Europe.
Sorry, just had to ask. I mean, you question whether or not history and geography are taught in the US because someone kept his attention more on his his/geo teacher's firm buttocks instead of what he was trying to teach him. And since your post is drowning in incorrect spelling...
I do agree with you on the numbers thing, though. To state that numerical superiority is meaningless is just ignorant.
Last edited by Rosse_modest (2006-08-08 03:56:22)
c7 > m16
halifax class frigate > oliver perry frigate
jtf,sas> seals
halifax class frigate > oliver perry frigate
jtf,sas> seals
Said U.S., but Germany is up there too. What tipped it for me was alot of German machines were hard to manufacture and maintain. i.e. Tiger
ummm...pointless...armaments?
USA
USA
Sweden makes good weapons
Last edited by herrr_smity (2006-08-08 10:32:38)
Germany of course.. G36 family. But America is also good.
CANADA they got the ferthest on juno beach in ww2 un like the other cuntries they were first to capture all of there obectives on d-day and thay were first of of the beaches
I think alot of people are forgetting the title, it says "of all time" When the Romans where walking around with short swords and balistas they had the armaments weapons of their age and this let them conquer a giant proporsion of Europe. During the middle ages the Britsih Longbowman could fire 6 hours accuratly a minute, and could fire an arrow every 5 seconds if you where just trying to hail it down on your enemy, a sea of black pointy sticks tends to do a job well. During WW2 the Germans had the best tanks (panzers, tigers etc) and the MG42 which killed thousands on DDay. The British had the spitfire, which was the only real reason why we where never invaded, and the Americans had atomic bombs which in short ended the war.
Nowadays, America has all the best current weaponry, the Apache, the new M8, the F-35 and the F/A-22, the M1A2 (which will and has beaten all other tanks on an open battlefield)
Also the American army is one of the only super power armies to actually be currently proving itself in an actual war, and from what little I know, expeirence and battle intelligence from your soldiers is more important than having the latest and greatest in armaments.
Basically in my mind, any weapon which out classed everything else of it's time is a great weapon, and any country that wields it at the time has the greatest armaments.
Nowadays, America has all the best current weaponry, the Apache, the new M8, the F-35 and the F/A-22, the M1A2 (which will and has beaten all other tanks on an open battlefield)
Also the American army is one of the only super power armies to actually be currently proving itself in an actual war, and from what little I know, expeirence and battle intelligence from your soldiers is more important than having the latest and greatest in armaments.
Basically in my mind, any weapon which out classed everything else of it's time is a great weapon, and any country that wields it at the time has the greatest armaments.
Not to be a total asshole, but the bismarck class was not a pocket battleship design, it was a battleship in every way.Stags wrote:
*sigh* Okay I know I'm going to leave a lot out.
Lets go back farther. Say Revolution era, everything was pretty equal. Brits had the most powerful navy, US had the most powerful frigets. Brits had numbers, US used accruacy (hunted a lot in the colonies).
Moving on, Civil War era. US used the first "true" submarines (be it the Alligator was designed by a French, but the French didn't want it so he went left them). Also, first turreted ships (monitor, although I thik they should've have ran with the idea instead of letting it die).
WWI (skipped a lot I know):
US: M1 (8 Shots, very accurate, semi-auto); Tommy Gun (auto or semi-auto, Germans learned to hate the sound of it); the Browning series (mentioned before, BAR if you got hit you're going down, 0.50 and 0.30 Machine Gun.); Springfield (Sniper, very accurate, although I like the German one better) Aircraft: P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51 etc, B-17, B-24, B-25, B-29. Also the US devolped a Jet fighter although it never saw action. Ships: Okay, just too many to list, we built a lot of them. Tanks: Sherman (sad sad sad) then we got the Pershing (end of war, the Germans learned what we felt like when the shells bounced off the armor).
Brits: Lee-Enfield (bolt-action), Stem(auto and semi), Bren (like the BAR somewhat). Aircraft, Lancaster, Spitfire, Hurrican, Typhon. Ships: Similar to the US's but their Carriers had steel decks (smart thinking). Tanks: Challenger, Churchill.
Germans: Mauser, MP42, MP44 (The MPs where nice but lacked the numbers), Luger, MG42, MG44 (Machine guns prone to overheating, barrel need to be changed every 2 minutes [costly time in a firefight]), Aircraft, MEs, BF-109, FW-190, ME-262 (was used wrong for too long to have any affect), Junkers, Stukas. Ships: U-Boats, Pocket Battleships (famous one is the Bizmark). Tanks: Tigers, Panthers, King Tiger. (Panthers where the most feared) Although, the Germans just never produced in the same quanities as the Allies could, also their tanks would break down, whereas the Sherman was easy to repair and kept on working. The Germans were too precise in their engineering which lead to relieablity problems.
The pocket battleship classes were Deutschland, Admiral Scheer, Admiral Graf Spee and they were relatively easy prey for the British battleships.
what do you want, a cookie? a missed keystroke will brand me for life!JE3146 wrote:
try 6.5 lbs...Kyouteki wrote:
The M-16 already has a single person accuracy rating of up to 500 yards, and a group rating of up to 800, so no...i doubt the US will be switching, and the M4 has the same single person rating, but it's group person rating is slightly less, and it only weighs 4 pounds as opposed to the M-16's 15 pounds. I know this from experience.Miller wrote:
Corner shot is good yeah, but it uses a pistol, though can be modified to use those nade launchers... The new Isrealli assault rifle is what the USA should start using now IMO. I mean come on, as accurate as a sniper at 300 yards? Can't bad for such a small gun.
And I know this from experience...
The Bismark was labeled as a pocket battleship as to aviod the Treaty signed after WWII, also it was sunk by a bunch of Byplanes (their AA guns couldn't track the slow moving planes, oops)
Okay, that german corner shot, had one problem, after shooting for awhile the bullets would break though the barrel and start shooting straight-ish again.
If we are going to talk about Ancient warfare, Chinese their numbers tactics and weaponary was far superior to anything else. Greeks, they had flamethrowers. And don't forget the small country of Tibet, they use to be a dominating force in the region until they found religon and switched.
Also, if are going to talk about Roman military might we will compare them to US military might. The Roman's where one of the greatest militaries ever because they adopted their enemies armor, weapons and tactics. Adding their own ideas to make them better. This is what the US did, we looked at our enemies and allies weaponary, armor and tactics, studied them and found was to make them better. The M-60 is our verison of the German Machine guns. The Pershing tank was built after studying captured Panzers. Our rocket program was lead by German Scientists who moved to the US after WWII. What makes a country great isn't jus their ability to produced amazing armaments on their own but also to adapt them from other powers and improve on that.
If we want to talk about highly trained military. Each branch of our Armed forces has Special Forces (yes even the Coast Guard). The Navy has the SEALs we all know that, the Marines well shit they're Marines, Air Force Red Barets, Army Rangers. Then there are joint specil forces like Delta. As far as training goes they are all equal to any other nations special forces, you have to ask why wouldn't they be. It would seem dumb not to have the best. Also, US special forces all specialize in different theaters of warfare.
*sigh* If you want to debate pick a specific era and catagory.
Okay, that german corner shot, had one problem, after shooting for awhile the bullets would break though the barrel and start shooting straight-ish again.
If we are going to talk about Ancient warfare, Chinese their numbers tactics and weaponary was far superior to anything else. Greeks, they had flamethrowers. And don't forget the small country of Tibet, they use to be a dominating force in the region until they found religon and switched.
Also, if are going to talk about Roman military might we will compare them to US military might. The Roman's where one of the greatest militaries ever because they adopted their enemies armor, weapons and tactics. Adding their own ideas to make them better. This is what the US did, we looked at our enemies and allies weaponary, armor and tactics, studied them and found was to make them better. The M-60 is our verison of the German Machine guns. The Pershing tank was built after studying captured Panzers. Our rocket program was lead by German Scientists who moved to the US after WWII. What makes a country great isn't jus their ability to produced amazing armaments on their own but also to adapt them from other powers and improve on that.
If we want to talk about highly trained military. Each branch of our Armed forces has Special Forces (yes even the Coast Guard). The Navy has the SEALs we all know that, the Marines well shit they're Marines, Air Force Red Barets, Army Rangers. Then there are joint specil forces like Delta. As far as training goes they are all equal to any other nations special forces, you have to ask why wouldn't they be. It would seem dumb not to have the best. Also, US special forces all specialize in different theaters of warfare.
*sigh* If you want to debate pick a specific era and catagory.