+1 Saudi Arabia

2010-08-20 13:08:19

#26

.Sup: be nice; +2,646|6738|The Twilight Zone

Beduin wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
Beduin wrote:

right i dont think you would say that if someone blinded you with acid.
you can think what ever you want, but muslims do believe that it is a free ticket to paradise... to forgive

I don't think the ones who flew those planes in the two towers forgave anyone...

https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png

2010-08-20 13:08:34

#27

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,056|7056|PNW

mafia996630 wrote:
It is better to forgive.

Troooolllll!

2010-08-20 13:09:56

#28

Beduin: Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid; +510|6035|شمال

.Sup wrote:
I don't think the ones who flew those planes in the two towers forgave anyone...

I dont think someone did them anything in the first place... well at least not the civies

الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic

2010-08-20 13:19:06

#29

Doctor Strangelove: Real Battlefield Veterinarian.; +1,758|6753

Vengeance System > Justice System.

2010-08-20 13:27:39

#30

m3thod: All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz; +2,197|6956|UK

if my wife cheated on me, then the just punishement would be to stone the bitch to death.

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.

2010-08-20 13:33:26

#31

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,056|7056|PNW

Marijuana thread's that way, guys....ohhhh.

2010-08-20 13:39:58

#32

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5643|London, England

SenorToenails wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
i know...and i see no issue with that. punishment should fit the crime. eye for an eye. whatever.
I'm sure you agreed with this action too? This isn't justice, it's vengeance.

Justice is vengeance.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-08-20 13:45:09

#33

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6755

m3thod wrote:
if my wife cheated on me, then the just punishement would be to stone the bitch to death.

that's a vindictive, revanchist knee-jerk reaction... a year later you'd probably regret having her killed, tbh

plus cycles of negativity like that go absolutely nowhere...

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-08-20 13:46:28

#34

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6866|SE London

JohnG@lt wrote:
SenorToenails wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
i know...and i see no issue with that. punishment should fit the crime. eye for an eye. whatever.
I'm sure you agreed with this action too? This isn't justice, it's vengeance.
Justice is vengeance.

No it isn't.

2010-08-20 13:47:21

#35

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6755

Bertster7 wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
SenorToenails wrote:
I'm sure you agreed with this action too? This isn't justice, it's vengeance.
Justice is vengeance.
No it isn't.

it's a very poor form of justice, achieved in a reductive manner

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-08-20 13:48:03

#36

jord: Member; +2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.

Justice is idealism.

2010-08-20 13:51:07

#37

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6866|SE London

Uzique wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

Justice is vengeance.
No it isn't.
it's a very poor form of justice, achieved in a reductive manner

Wouldn't that be the other way round?

2010-08-20 13:58:22

#38

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5643|London, England

Bertster7 wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
SenorToenails wrote:

I'm sure you agreed with this action too? This isn't justice, it's vengeance.
Justice is vengeance.
No it isn't.

Then what is justice? Is it not a reaction to a negative action taken by another?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-08-20 14:01:14

#39

.Sup: be nice; +2,646|6738|The Twilight Zone

If justice was vengeance the man would be killed not sent to prison

2010-08-20 14:03:30

#40

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6814|Global Command

.Sup wrote:
If justice was vengeance the man would be killed not sent to prison

What about the economics of justice?

He is expensive to house. Bullets are cheap.

2010-08-20 14:04:06

#41

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5643|London, England

The Western system of 'justice' is entirely a misnomer. I don't remember the last time a judge patted someone on the back and told them how wonderful of a human being they were and handed them a reward. See, in a true justice system, the good would be rewarded and the bad would be punished.

What we have is a nicely, but incorrectly, named system of organized vengeance. Nothing more.

This is why I get the lolz when bleeding hearts wonder why their efforts to soften the system do nothing but encourage more bad behavior. They're rewarding the wrong people because they have the mistaken belief that it really is a system of justice.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-08-20 14:05:29)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-08-20 14:05:14

#42

.Sup: be nice; +2,646|6738|The Twilight Zone

ATG wrote:
.Sup wrote:
If justice was vengeance the man would be killed not sent to prison
What about the economics of justice?

He is expensive to house. Bullets are cheap.

the goal is justice even if it costs

2010-08-20 14:05:22

#43

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6866|SE London

JohnG@lt wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Justice is vengeance.
No it isn't.
Then what is justice? Is it not a reaction to a negative action taken by another?

No it isn't.

It's about fairness, impartiality and harmony. Read some Plato - that explains it far better than I could ever hope to.

JohnG@lt wrote:
The Western system of 'justice' is entirely a misnomer. I don't remember the last time a judge patted someone on the back and told them how wonderful of a human being they were and handed them a reward. See, in a true justice system, the good would be rewarded and the bad would be punished.

In many ways I agree with this. Modern justice systems are less about justice and more about having a deterent in place to reduce crime. Not just a system of organised vengeance. They are a tool of the state, not something for the victim.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2010-08-20 14:12:35)

2010-08-20 14:22:30

#44

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

SenorToenails wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
SenorToenails wrote:

I'm sure you agreed with this action too? This isn't justice, it's vengeance.
To a degree, yes. But then again, we might as well call the justice system the vengeance system, because in practice, it functions this way far more often.

Justice is an idealistic concept that is hard to quantify and even harder to really administer. Vengeance is generally the best that most societies accomplish.
Justice is based on something more than just 'you did X, you get X'. Vengeance is exactly that, and it's obtainable because it's the easy way. It's also inhumane. And then there is the possibility of wrongful conviction...because then you've just maimed the wrong guy. What happens then? Where is his vengeance?

No argument here. I would agree that capital punishment has unfortunately killed the wrong people sometimes. There is a very high profile case of this being investigated in Texas.

So yes, "an eye for an eye" certainly has drawbacks as a mode of punishment, although I would suggest this is not because of any moral reasons. Wrongful convictions are the result of a flawed investigation. So, for that reason, I believe the harshest punishments should be limited to very heinous cases. If the punishment for paralyzing someone in a fight is paralysis, then the defendant should be given a few attempts at appeals before suffering paraylsis himself.

However, if someone is clearly responsible for this injury upon someone in a context where there was an attempt at making the victim suffer permanent damage or an attempted murder, then I believe the punishment of paralysis is fully justified.

If this man truly did act with malice toward the victim in a senseless and murderous display of violence, then I believe it really is justice to paralyze him in return. Sometimes, I believe vengeance and justice are one and the same, but then again, my ethics are very utilitarian.

2010-08-20 14:25:50

#45

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

m3thod wrote:
if my wife cheated on me, then the just punishement would be to stone the bitch to death.

Well, I think that's going a bit far....

2010-08-20 14:31:01

#46

cpt.fass1: The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n; +329|6981|NJ

I think justice was served. He got into a fight and paralyzed a person, maybe the person who lost the fight shouldn't have gotten into it in the first place.

No eye for an eye, justice was served, the weaker of the two got what was coming to him.

2010-08-20 14:31:24

#47

13rin: Member; +977|6764

Turquoise wrote:
m3thod wrote:
if my wife cheated on me, then the just punishement would be to stone the bitch to death.
Well, I think that's going a bit far....

Hmmm... Not for a Muslim, which M3th happens to be...

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

2010-08-20 14:31:36

#48

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

ATG wrote:
.Sup wrote:
If justice was vengeance the man would be killed not sent to prison
What about the economics of justice?

He is expensive to house. Bullets are cheap.

Bullets are cheap, but the current death row appeals system is expensive as hell... (that can be fixed, however)

2010-08-20 14:32:21

#49

13/f/taiwan: Member; +940|5983

Killing people is always the best solution.

2010-08-20 14:33:22

#50

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

DBBrinson1 wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
m3thod wrote:
if my wife cheated on me, then the just punishement would be to stone the bitch to death.
Well, I think that's going a bit far....
Hmmm... Not for a Muslim, which M3th happens to be...

Well, a lot of people (Christians included) would sympathize with killing their wife/husband if she/he cheated on them.

I think that has less to do with religion and more to do with emotions. Granted, I can totally understand how angry someone can get in that situation.

BF2S Forums +1 Saudi Arabia

Beduin wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Beduin wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

.Sup wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

m3thod wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

.Sup wrote:

ATG wrote:

.Sup wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

m3thod wrote:

ATG wrote:

.Sup wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

m3thod wrote:

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