BF2S Forums Pot might be legal in Cali next year?

ruisleipa wrote:

it's weird cos you're advocating a society where potentially there are LOADS of bums, alocholics, druggies and so on, people you onbviously hate for some reason, cluttering up the streets and making life worse for honest joes like yourself. I don't get it.

Don't bother.  I've tried explaining these sorts of things to lowing a million times or more.

All it takes is like 5 minutes of thought to realize that this is how reality works.

The War on Drugs is useless and very expensive.  That much you, lowing, and I all agree on.  Unfortunately, he doesn't get the other side of all this.

If we finally wake up and legalize things like pot, we should tax and regulate them, and then use the funds to help pay for rehab costs.  Having rehabilitation systems in place isn't just for the addicts themselves, it's to maintain order in society, and it's a cheaper option than letting these people become desperate and crazy enough to commit crimes for more drugs.

Even from a purely pragmatic and selfish viewpoint, rehabs make sense to have.  Unfortunately, lowing has the selfishness without the pragmatism.  Maybe if he ever actually attains some of that, he'll understand the necessity of things like rehab.

lowing wrote:

androoz wrote:

lowing wrote:

Sure, as long as you do not plan to go to work at least 8 hours after your last drink. If you do you will be fired if caught.

and if weed was legal, you wouldnt be allowed to smoke at least 8 hours or whatever before work?

No way, there is no way they will allow a pilot or a mechanic or a cop or a doctor etc. to do drugs "off duty"

yet they would allow people to do drugs such as alcohol (which is arguably more dangerous) "off duty"?

Turquoise wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

it's weird cos you're advocating a society where potentially there are LOADS of bums, alocholics, druggies and so on, people you onbviously hate for some reason, cluttering up the streets and making life worse for honest joes like yourself. I don't get it.

Don't bother.  I've tried explaining these sorts of things to lowing a million times or more.

All it takes is like 5 minutes of thought to realize that this is how reality works.

The War on Drugs is useless and very expensive.  That much you, lowing, and I all agree on.  Unfortunately, he doesn't get the other side of all this.

If we finally wake up and legalize things like pot, we should tax and regulate them, and then use the funds to help pay for rehab costs.  Having rehabilitation systems in place isn't just for the addicts themselves, it's to maintain order in society, and it's a cheaper option than letting these people become desperate and crazy enough to commit crimes for more drugs.

Even from a purely pragmatic and selfish viewpoint, rehabs make sense to have.  Unfortunately, lowing has the selfishness without the pragmatism.  Maybe if he ever actually attains some of that, he'll understand the necessity of things like rehab.

I am not an idiot turquoise. I understand the war on drugs is useless, I also endorse legalizing drugs. I endorse taxing the ever living shit out of it not to subsidize drug abuse, but to subsidize education, ( if govt. insists on controlling it) infrastructure. etc.. you are actually endorsing legalizing drugs then using the money collected to rehab the very drug users who chose that way of life only to have go at it again. Kinda a revolving door of wasted money don't you think? However it does fit in with a usual govt. run program.

What you don't have to bother with is trying to tell me that drug addicts and over weight people are the same burdon on society. They are not.

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

androoz wrote:

and if weed was legal, you wouldnt be allowed to smoke at least 8 hours or whatever before work?

No way, there is no way they will allow a pilot or a mechanic or a cop or a doctor etc. to do drugs "off duty"

I think people's perceptions of pot will change over time if it is legalized.  Eventually, pot will be treated about the same as alcohol.

It will also likely be made illegal to smoke in all indoor areas (other than your home or a hotel room).

this I agree with. Do not expect a pilot or an aircraft mechanic to be a known drug user and still keep a job, legal or not.

androoz wrote:

lowing wrote:

androoz wrote:

and if weed was legal, you wouldnt be allowed to smoke at least 8 hours or whatever before work?

No way, there is no way they will allow a pilot or a mechanic or a cop or a doctor etc. to do drugs "off duty"

yet they would allow people to do drugs such as alcohol (which is arguably more dangerous) "off duty"?

Alcohol is legal and a drug...........................

androoz wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I think people's perceptions of pot will change over time if it is legalized.  Eventually, pot will be treated about the same as alcohol.

It will also likely be made illegal to smoke in all indoor areas (other than your home or a hotel room).

this I agree with. Do not expect a pilot or an aircraft mechanic to be a known drug user and still keep a job, legal or not.

androoz wrote:

lowing wrote:

No way, there is no way they will allow a pilot or a mechanic or a cop or a doctor etc. to do drugs "off duty"

yet they would allow people to do drugs such as alcohol (which is arguably more dangerous) "off duty"?

Alcohol is legal and a drug...........................

Although I would agree pot is not as dangerous as alcohol, you will not find a pilot or mechanic with alcohol in their system keeping a job. Same goes for pot. Legal or not

lowing wrote:

I am not an idiot turquoise. I understand the war on drugs is useless, I also endorse legalizing drugs. I endorse taxing the ever living shit out of it not to subsidize drug abuse, but to subsidize education, ( if govt. insists on controlling it) infrastructure. etc.. you are actually endorsing legalizing drugs then using the money collected to rehab the very drug users who chose that way of life only to have go at it again. Kinda a revolving door of wasted money don't you think? However it does fit in with a usual govt. run program.

What you don't have to bother with is trying to tell me that drug addicts and over weight people are the same burdon on society. They are not.

The funds should go to both education and rehabs.

Look, I really do wish it was as simple as letting idiots take the fall for their own bad decisions, but if you go far enough down that road, you begin to notice that the people you've left behind start to destroy society around you.

Let me give you a good example.  Have you ever been to Fresno?  It's a hellhole of meth addiction.  They have rehab programs, but they are poorly funded and unable to handle the burden of need there.  As a result, a shitload of crime occurs among addicts that will do whatever they can to get their next fix.

A better funded rehab program there with more power to actually separate these people from society to wean them off of their addictions could rebuild Fresno.  As things currently stand, it's just rotting from the inside, while everyone -- addicts and non-addicts -- suffers.

The big picture here is that suitable rehab structures are necessary to prevent other cities from reaching that point.  It benefits more than just addicts to have the appropriate structures in place, and in general, it's much cheaper than just throwing all addicts in prison.

Where did I say that overweight people are the same burden on society as drug addicts?

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-04-08 17:03:57)

Now we can have all the pot heads in one state.

androoz wrote:

Alcohol is legal and a drug...........................

And it's the scum of wider society. Nearly 50% of crime in Australia is related to alcohol in some way. Your argument fails.

Hey, if pot's legal, awesome.  Go for it, I don't have a problem with it.

But if you step back at see the playbooks of the pot-hater and the pot-lover, very little of either side's predictions will be accurate.

Pointless arguing about it imho.

But I do think regulating the industry will drop the prices.  Those currently reaping the benefits aren't savory characters, so you'll have a little transition period because they gots to get paid...then business as usual.  Some of the corrupt will never switch to a life that doesn't involve crime.

For instance, do you think human trafficking will increase when pot is legal?  I do, amongst other things...

So the savings the DEA reaps from not running around collecting pot dealers would shift elsewhere.

I can do the pro-pot side too if you liek

Last edited by Pug (2010-04-08 20:11:05)

lowing wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

who mentioned DUI? not me. Anyone can be in a car accident, but by driving a car they choose to engage in a potentially harmful or lethal activity. Ditto fast food, not exercising, smoking etc etc. What you're saying is that there should be no care for anyone who has engaged in any activity potentially harmful, presumably whether legal or illegal, right?

you didn't address this point.

lowing wrote:

No I am advocating for a society where people take responsibiltiy for themselves, and society holds them to it...but I agree with you that is something you would never understand.

Well I understand the theory but I don't understand how you think it would make society a better place, and why you would want to encourage bums, addicts and so on in your towns and cities. Apart from anything else it would increase your taxes which instead of paying a tiny amount for rehab would end up paying shitloads for prisons, police etc etc. It's not logical.

Sorry, I am not gunna entertain some bullshit that suggests, someone who is over wieght is the same as a drug addict. Don't look now, but fat people are still producers in society. drug addicts, not so much, or not for long.

Nope, what would make society a better place is hold people accountable for their actions, and people actually accepting responsibility for their actions.

rus: healthcare costs will increase due to greater access to a harmful product, both directly and indirectly

lowing: you shouldn't be comparing fat to stoned.  i'm not going to bother figuring out who started this tangent, but the argument should be comparing fat to normal and stoner to normal.  rus is correct in the implication though, people will have to pay for their increase healthcare...hooray for obama.  but i would imagine there will be a special tax placed on the product to pay (hopefully) most of those costs.

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

I am not an idiot turquoise. I understand the war on drugs is useless, I also endorse legalizing drugs. I endorse taxing the ever living shit out of it not to subsidize drug abuse, but to subsidize education, ( if govt. insists on controlling it) infrastructure. etc.. you are actually endorsing legalizing drugs then using the money collected to rehab the very drug users who chose that way of life only to have go at it again. Kinda a revolving door of wasted money don't you think? However it does fit in with a usual govt. run program.

What you don't have to bother with is trying to tell me that drug addicts and over weight people are the same burdon on society. They are not.

The funds should go to both education and rehabs.

Look, I really do wish it was as simple as letting idiots take the fall for their own bad decisions, but if you go far enough down that road, you begin to notice that the people you've left behind start to destroy society around you.

Let me give you a good example.  Have you ever been to Fresno?  It's a hellhole of meth addiction.  They have rehab programs, but they are poorly funded and unable to handle the burden of need there.  As a result, a shitload of crime occurs among addicts that will do whatever they can to get their next fix.

A better funded rehab program there with more power to actually separate these people from society to wean them off of their addictions could rebuild Fresno.  As things currently stand, it's just rotting from the inside, while everyone -- addicts and non-addicts -- suffers.

The big picture here is that suitable rehab structures are necessary to prevent other cities from reaching that point.  It benefits more than just addicts to have the appropriate structures in place, and in general, it's much cheaper than just throwing all addicts in prison.

Where did I say that overweight people are the same burden on society as drug addicts?

you didn't , the dumb fuck you are agreeing with did...Next time you want to side with someone, ya might wanna read what he posts.

Sorry, I do not give a shit what happens to fresno, or detroit etc....I am not going to support legalizing self destruction THEN offer my money to bring them back from the brink ONLY to see them self destruct again. Cut the rope, send them to prison so the rest of us can get on with living.

If you actually made prison a fuckin prison istead of air conditioned tv rooms, with a library and gym, it prpbalby wouldn't cost so much to run one. DO away with entertaining frivolous laws suits and creature comforts and view it as what it is supposed to be. Punishment for crime. We would it would be a lot cheaper. Make it so fuckin bad that the last place on earth people would want to go to would be prison. Lets see what happens then.

Wow congrats. Hope it will be legal in CPH too!

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

you didn't , the dumb fuck you are agreeing with did...Next time you want to side with someone, ya might wanna read what he posts.

It's not really fair to assume that I agree with everything anyone posts.  I would've cited that example if I had actually agreed with it.

lowing wrote:

Sorry, I do not give a shit what happens to fresno, or detroit etc....I am not going to support legalizing self destruction THEN offer my money to bring them back from the brink ONLY to see them self destruct again. Cut the rope, send them to prison so the rest of us can get on with living.

You're willing to do that even if it costs you more to imprison them than rehabbing them would?

lowing wrote:

If you actually made prison a fuckin prison istead of air conditioned tv rooms, with a library and gym, it prpbalby wouldn't cost so much to run one. DO away with entertaining frivolous laws suits and creature comforts and view it as what it is supposed to be. Punishment for crime. We would it would be a lot cheaper. Make it so fuckin bad that the last place on earth people would want to go to would be prison. Lets see what happens then.

A lot of the reason why prisons fail to teach the right lessons is the culture itself.  You could make the place a total dungeon, but as long as gangs form and people participate in illegal trades between prison and the outside world, you will still have problems.

It's not the amenities that are the problem, although I would support stripping them down.  Keeping cells as simple as possible is a good way to cut costs.

What would really fix our prison system is more solitary confinement and less opportunities for people to congregate into gangs.

what coste me more? constant revoling door rehab, and the legal system that is used to get there? Or lock a fucker away  and force hard labor on him, cleaning up the streets? I will take the free workforce thanks.

I am not interested in teaching lessons in prison, I wnat prsion to be a fuckin prison, A place you most definately do not want to go.