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2010-04-05 17:45:23
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6777
Thank you Wikileaks for this.

This is a disgrace. How can you be so sure there is an RPG & AK's and be so far from the truth? Surely being "the good guys" you need to be 100% sure that they were armed.

Why would you engage a unarmed van driver helping a wounded person? Is that in the ROE?

The cover-up in the aftermath is even more of a disgrace.

We are supposed to be liberating this country and all we are doing, and have been doing, is creating resentment and more insurgents.
2010-04-05 17:46:56
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

All we are doing? Not likely.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-04-05 17:49:08
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,736|6747|Oxferd Ohire

BN wrote:

Thank you Wikileaks for this.

This is a disgrace. How can you be so sure there is an RPG & AK's and be so far from the truth? Surely being "the good guys" you need to be 100% sure that they were armed.
That would require getting closer, no? And who knows, what if they were hiding weapons....
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
2010-04-05 17:53:45
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6659

BN wrote:

Thank you Wikileaks for this.

This is a disgrace. How can you be so sure there is an RPG & AK's and be so far from the truth? Surely being "the good guys" you need to be 100% sure that they were armed.

Why would you engage a unarmed van driver helping a wounded person? Is that in the ROE?

The cover-up in the aftermath is even more of a disgrace.

We are supposed to be liberating this country and all we are doing, and have been doing, is creating resentment and more insurgents.
Presumably it is in the ROE, because they radioed it in and were given confirmation from their CO to engage.

The cover up is the disgrace here, the fact that the pilots killed civilians whilst following the SOP is a tragedy, not an outrage.
2010-04-05 18:03:52
VspyVspy
Sniper
+183|6682|A sunburnt country
Note to self, don't hang out with insurgents in a war zone.
2010-04-05 18:10:44
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6677

VspyVspy wrote:

Note to self, don't hang out with insurgents in a war zone.
Was it confirmed that they were insurgents?  Could very well be bodyguards.  Considering this was supposed to be the hottest of the hot zones, insurgents would be out in the open casually minding there own business with two Apache over there heads?
2010-04-05 18:10:54
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6694|United States of America
The problem here is that there was initially the misidentification of the camera as a weapon when the guy peaked around the corner, which really seemed to shake up the pilots. Afterwards, those people who weren't in the air were relying on what they were hearing (that the individuals had weapons) to make their decisions. It certainly is regrettable that innocent people were killed, but as had been stated previously, it's easy to nitpick all these decisions from an armchair after the fact. The pilots didn't seem to be acting reckless, but they made a mistake---we're supposed to learn from those, aren't we? They shouldn't be crucified for it, though.
2010-04-05 18:12:14
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

VspyVspy wrote:

Note to self, don't hang out with insurgents in a war zone.
or this guy
https://i43.tinypic.com/iee8no.gif
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-04-05 18:34:32
Canin
Conservative Roman Catholic
+280|6484|Foothills of S. Carolina

I watched the leak and read the thread, and now I am tired. The pilots followed ROE and did their job, which was to protect the ground troops from an ambush. Its called WAR not patty cake. Don't go walking in a war zone with armed men, don't point weapons or even a camera at a chopper in a war zone unless you want some type of response. I am saddened at the loss of human life, but then again, there are greater atrocities in the world than this.

As far as the reporters having access to every move the military makes, I think they should have been barred from access long ago, all they do is report the bad and bring down the moral of the troops and citizens. Lets face it, good news does not sell papers or make headlines.
2010-04-05 18:38:43
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6539|Global Command
War is hell. Based on what I saw in the video I would have fired too. Sorry.

It looked like a rpg. The pilots and gunners were doing their jobs, as unfortunate as that may be.
2010-04-05 18:40:05
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6777

RTHKI wrote:

BN wrote:

Thank you Wikileaks for this.

This is a disgrace. How can you be so sure there is an RPG & AK's and be so far from the truth? Surely being "the good guys" you need to be 100% sure that they were armed.
That would require getting closer, no? And who knows, what if they were hiding weapons....
So the default action is to kill them?

Liberators my ass.
2010-04-05 19:05:07
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5269|foggy bottom

BN wrote:

RTHKI wrote:

BN wrote:

Thank you Wikileaks for this.

This is a disgrace. How can you be so sure there is an RPG & AK's and be so far from the truth? Surely being "the good guys" you need to be 100% sure that they were armed.
That would require getting closer, no? And who knows, what if they were hiding weapons....
So the default action is to kill them?
yes.  unless you figure out a new way to master urban combat in the 21st century.
Tu Stultus Es
2010-04-05 19:26:38
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5368|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

BN wrote:

RTHKI wrote:


That would require getting closer, no? And who knows, what if they were hiding weapons....
So the default action is to kill them?
yes.  unless you figure out a new way to master urban combat in the 21st century.
I'll wait and see what he comes up with...

https://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Quh8viF6mcOH7M:https://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/uploads/popcorn.jpg
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-04-05 19:38:04
mikkel
Member
+383|6611

eleven bravo wrote:

BN wrote:

RTHKI wrote:


That would require getting closer, no? And who knows, what if they were hiding weapons....
So the default action is to kill them?
yes.  unless you figure out a new way to master urban combat in the 21st century.
I think what he's saying is that if you can't do it without shooting first and asking questions later in the middle of a city with more than six million people in it, just don't do it at all.
2010-04-05 19:39:11
CC-Marley
Member
+407|6838

SealXo wrote:

easily one of the most fucked up things i have ever seen. im pretty disturbed after watching that.

an RPG is a good 5 feet long. a 2 foot 200mm lense on your 5D is nowhere near. And will someone please point out to me WHERE and WHO had AKs? I fail to see anyone armed throughout this whole video.

CC-Marley wrote:

Ottomania wrote:

Vilham wrote:

1. Those pilots have to react instantly, they don't have time to send the video back, let it be analyzed for a few hours then open fire.
2. Those straps on the cameras from several hundred feet up will look just the same as any guns strap.
3. Two of them DID have AKs.
4. The guy who sat on the corner pointing something up at the choppers is A, an insurgent with a RPG. B, a fucking moron for sitting in a hidden position pointing something at someone who is on the lookout for people trying to kill him.
You have a good imagination, there was no one with RPG.
Around 3:47 there may have been a RPG. The two guys who stop walking, the guy on the left. He kind of swings the weapon.
Maybe?A RPG, Definitely 2 AK's

Last edited by CC-Marley (2010-04-05 19:40:28)

2010-04-05 19:40:59
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5269|foggy bottom

mikkel wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

BN wrote:


So the default action is to kill them?
yes.  unless you figure out a new way to master urban combat in the 21st century.
I think what he's saying is that if you can't do it without shooting first and asking questions later in the middle of a city with more than six million people in it, just don't do it at all.
really not how it works in real life.  as long as there is some kind of restraint on the use of force, what has been done here clearly falls under jus in bello

I went through 22 weeks of going over Just War theory these last two quarters, so the nerdy philosophical academic opinions on warfare are very fresh in my mind.

Last edited by eleven bravo (2010-04-05 19:41:20)

Tu Stultus Es
2010-04-05 19:41:48
specops10-4
Member
+108|6753|In the hills
Dumbfucks on both sides.  Cowboys getting a thrill from killing and retards bringing their children into an obvious firefight.  If you're going to crouch around a corner and look down an street with an American convoy carrying something that looks like an RPG while standing with a group of people carrying AK47s and think you don't look very suspicious then you almost deserve to be shot. 

The gunner is a psychopath, he deserves to get shot too.
2010-04-05 19:43:01
CC-Marley
Member
+407|6838
Definitely a RPG @3:47
Go back and watch it.

Last edited by CC-Marley (2010-04-05 19:44:14)

2010-04-05 19:46:04
mikkel
Member
+383|6611

eleven bravo wrote:

mikkel wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:


yes.  unless you figure out a new way to master urban combat in the 21st century.
I think what he's saying is that if you can't do it without shooting first and asking questions later in the middle of a city with more than six million people in it, just don't do it at all.
really not how it works in real life.  as long as there is some kind of restraint on the use of force, what has been done here clearly falls under jus in bello
What are you replying to? This video happened 'in real life'.
2010-04-05 19:47:13
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5269|foggy bottom

mikkel wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

mikkel wrote:


I think what he's saying is that if you can't do it without shooting first and asking questions later in the middle of a city with more than six million people in it, just don't do it at all.
really not how it works in real life.  as long as there is some kind of restraint on the use of force, what has been done here clearly falls under jus in bello
What are you replying to? This video happened 'in real life'.
replying to the "avoid conflict in a city with 6 million inhabitants" nonsense.
Tu Stultus Es
2010-04-05 19:49:17
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5269|foggy bottom
I really dont understand what you are trying to say?  Am I really supposed to take that "suggestion" about avoiding conflict in a city with 6 million inhabitants seriously?
Tu Stultus Es
2010-04-05 19:49:33
mikkel
Member
+383|6611

eleven bravo wrote:

mikkel wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

really not how it works in real life.  as long as there is some kind of restraint on the use of force, what has been done here clearly falls under jus in bello
What are you replying to? This video happened 'in real life'.
replying to the "avoid conflict in a city with 6 million inhabitants" nonsense.
Wanna reply with something that disproves the 'shoot first, ask questions later' part?

Last edited by mikkel (2010-04-05 19:50:42)

2010-04-05 19:53:47
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6716|67.222.138.85
Besides the fact that it is completely impractical, which he has implied multiple times now?
2010-04-05 19:55:49
mikkel
Member
+383|6611

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Besides the fact that it is completely impractical, which he has implied multiple times now?
Is this supposed to be directed at me?
2010-04-05 19:56:16
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6716|67.222.138.85
yeah, it is

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