BF2S Forums Switzerland bans minarets

I had a good laugh when I heard this. There's a lot of Muslims and they were all furious this morning about not living in a free country and stuff.

It's not like Switzerland has any land you could build them on anyway that isn't already strictly for agriculture or gay land protected by the government.

haha

Uzique wrote:

you're hardly making some groundbreaking social comment about europe there. since when has any society had a 'learned populace'. even america doesn't have equal distribution of education through the classes and differing social demographics. education is part of power. i think the important thing is that the enlightenment marked a change in philosophical interests and ideas, not that it marked the physical liberation of every single person on the continent. that's pretty absurd. and yes, i still think we're an enlightened continent, culturally, despite the reasons for banning minarets (which i personally disagree with).

I'd say we're rather well covered by our education system. Everyone gets school covered from the age of 5 through 18. After that there are many ways to pay for college. A college degree shouldn't be as important as it is anyway. A degree in literature, philosophy, sociology etc aren't worth much more than toilet paper. I always laugh when I meet people with Harvard degrees making $30,000 a year because they picked some dipshit degree.

The problem is people like you Uzi. You consider yourself to be an intellectual elitist and that you know what's best for everyone else. Deny it all you want but it comes across in every post you type. You don't know shit.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-11-30 11:54:54)

Narupug wrote:

Big deal, it's SWITZERLAND.  They've always had right tendencies, wake me up when it happens in France, the UK, or Spain (lols, the sizable Muslim population would be pissed.

France already banned the burqa.

Narupug wrote:

Ok, just shot myself in the foot again. 

But is the burqa really as big a part of the muslim religion as the Minaret?

bigger, the minarets can be replaced, the burqa is a matter of honor

S.Lythberg wrote:

Narupug wrote:

Ok, just shot myself in the foot again. 

But is the burqa really as big a part of the muslim religion as the Minaret?

bigger, the minarets can be replaced, the burqa is a matter of honor

Many experts on Islam on this forum

I wonder if rammunition is in Switzerland protesting right now

Good job Switzerland!

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

you're hardly making some groundbreaking social comment about europe there. since when has any society had a 'learned populace'. even america doesn't have equal distribution of education through the classes and differing social demographics. education is part of power. i think the important thing is that the enlightenment marked a change in philosophical interests and ideas, not that it marked the physical liberation of every single person on the continent. that's pretty absurd. and yes, i still think we're an enlightened continent, culturally, despite the reasons for banning minarets (which i personally disagree with).

I'd say we're rather well covered by our education system. Everyone gets school covered from the age of 5 through 18. After that there are many ways to pay for college. A college degree shouldn't be as important as it is anyway. A degree in literature, philosophy, sociology etc aren't worth much more than toilet paper. I always laugh when I meet people with Harvard degrees making $30,000 a year because they picked some dipshit degree.

The problem is people like you Uzi. You consider yourself to be an intellectual elitist and that you know what's best for everyone else. Deny it all you want but it comes across in every post you type. You don't know shit.

the fuck are you talking about? you made a comment about europeans not being enlightened... i linked you to an article on the philosophical enlightenment that took place here, i.e. the thing that we refer to when we talk about our peoples and cultures in terms of 'post-enlightenment'. im an intellectual elitist and i dont know shit? all ive stated in this thread is that switzerland are half-assed right-wing pussies and defended your ignoramus-attack that europeans somehow aren't 'advanced' to any post-enlightenment principles because of the dumb example of this one sitting-on-the-fence state. that doesn't say anything about me at all; there's not much of an opinion within a wikipedia entry.

Uzique wrote:

the fuck are you talking about? you made a comment about europeans not being enlightened... i linked you to an article on the philosophical enlightenment that took place here, i.e. the thing that we refer to when we talk about our peoples and cultures in terms of 'post-enlightenment'. im an intellectual elitist and i dont know shit? all ive stated in this thread is that switzerland are half-assed right-wing pussies and defended your ignoramus-attack that europeans somehow aren't 'advanced' to any post-enlightenment principles because of the dumb example of this one sitting-on-the-fence state. that doesn't say anything about me at all; there's not much of an opinion within a wikipedia entry.

Doesn't their fence sitting represent the ideal state of the enlightened liberal? They've avoided wars, they take care of their citizens, they even print all of their government documents in multiple languages so as to be more accessible to their populace and they allow direct democratic action. Yet you think whatever country you live in is more advanced than them?

Are they only enlightened when they agree exactly with your point of view?

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-11-30 13:47:18)

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

the fuck are you talking about? you made a comment about europeans not being enlightened... i linked you to an article on the philosophical enlightenment that took place here, i.e. the thing that we refer to when we talk about our peoples and cultures in terms of 'post-enlightenment'. im an intellectual elitist and i dont know shit? all ive stated in this thread is that switzerland are half-assed right-wing pussies and defended your ignoramus-attack that europeans somehow aren't 'advanced' to any post-enlightenment principles because of the dumb example of this one sitting-on-the-fence state. that doesn't say anything about me at all; there's not much of an opinion within a wikipedia entry.

Doesn't their fence sitting represent the ideal state of the enlightened liberal? They've avoided wars, they take care of their citizens, they even print all of their government documents in multiple languages so as to be more accessible to their populace and they allow direct democratic action. Yet you think whatever country you live in is more advanced than them?

Are they only enlightened when they agree exactly with your point of view?

i dont think we're 'more advanced' than them, i just think it's a shit decision to ban minarets. hardly progressivist. my point about them sitting on the fence is based on switzerland's historical ability to be politically neutral chameleons. if you call that 'enlightened liberalism', then we clearly have different interpretations and understandings of what it means to be 'liberal' in the US and the EU.

Uzique wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

the fuck are you talking about? you made a comment about europeans not being enlightened... i linked you to an article on the philosophical enlightenment that took place here, i.e. the thing that we refer to when we talk about our peoples and cultures in terms of 'post-enlightenment'. im an intellectual elitist and i dont know shit? all ive stated in this thread is that switzerland are half-assed right-wing pussies and defended your ignoramus-attack that europeans somehow aren't 'advanced' to any post-enlightenment principles because of the dumb example of this one sitting-on-the-fence state. that doesn't say anything about me at all; there's not much of an opinion within a wikipedia entry.

Doesn't their fence sitting represent the ideal state of the enlightened liberal? They've avoided wars, they take care of their citizens, they even print all of their government documents in multiple languages so as to be more accessible to their populace and they allow direct democratic action. Yet you think whatever country you live in is more advanced than them?

Are they only enlightened when they agree exactly with your point of view?

i dont think we're 'more advanced' than them, i just think it's a shit decision to ban minarets. hardly progressivist. my point about them sitting on the fence is based on switzerland's historical ability to be politically neutral chameleons. if you call that 'enlightened liberalism', then we clearly have different interpretations and understandings of what it means to be 'liberal' in the US and the EU.

No, I know exactly what it means to be 'liberal'. It means being closed minded and following whichever leader tells you that you are intellectually superior to those that do not follow his own dogma. The term 'progressive' is a real laugher as well since it really describes the most economically and socially conservative system ever devised with little to no room for deviation allowable for any member within. You may all pay lip service to freedom but the system you espouse would completely strip you of your humanity if it ever came to pass. If that's what it means to be 'enlightened', I'll pass. I'll let all the 'intellectually elitist, enlightened' lemmings run themselves off a cliff. Why would you even care if muslims lose their minarets when the end goal is the destruction of religion anyway?

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Doesn't their fence sitting represent the ideal state of the enlightened liberal? They've avoided wars, they take care of their citizens, they even print all of their government documents in multiple languages so as to be more accessible to their populace and they allow direct democratic action. Yet you think whatever country you live in is more advanced than them?

Are they only enlightened when they agree exactly with your point of view?

i dont think we're 'more advanced' than them, i just think it's a shit decision to ban minarets. hardly progressivist. my point about them sitting on the fence is based on switzerland's historical ability to be politically neutral chameleons. if you call that 'enlightened liberalism', then we clearly have different interpretations and understandings of what it means to be 'liberal' in the US and the EU.

No, I know exactly what it means to be 'liberal'. It means being closed minded and following whichever leader tells you that you are intellectually superior to those that do not follow his own dogma. The term 'progressive' is a real laugher as well since it really describes the most economically and socially conservative system ever devised with little to no room for deviation allowable for any member within. You may all pay lip service to freedom but the system you espouse would completely strip you of your humanity if it ever came to pass. If that's what it means to be 'enlightened', I'll pass. I'll let all the 'intellectually elitist, enlightened' lemmings run themselves off a cliff. Why would you even care if muslims lose their minarets when the end goal is the destruction of religion anyway?

just to make this clear, because ive been personally impartial to this thread myself: im not a liberal. i defended europe as being 'enlightened' because, in cultural terms, we are post-enlightenment (referring to the 1600-1800's period of philosophical, political and social revolution). i dont really know why you're so quick to lambast me as being "fucking clueless" and an "elitist lemming" ready to run off a cliff. i just said that banning minarets is a dumb idea. yes,if the end goal is the destruction of religion, they should ban other religious architecture. islamophobia in switzerland in my opinion is a historical hangover from the days when they all gave fellatio to the third reich.

Uzique wrote:

just to make this clear, because ive been personally impartial to this thread myself: im not a liberal. i defended europe as being 'enlightened' because, in cultural terms, we are post-enlightenment (referring to the 1600-1800's period of philosophical, political and social revolution). i dont really know why you're so quick to lambast me as being "fucking clueless" and an "elitist lemming" ready to run off a cliff. i just said that banning minarets is a dumb idea. yes,if the end goal is the destruction of religion, they should ban other religious architecture. islamophobia in switzerland in my opinion is a historical hangover from the days when they all gave fellatio to the third reich.

It's perfectly natural to fear what one doesn't understand. It is a part of human (and animal) nature that has allowed us to thrive and survive for thousands of years. In a society as closed and homogenous as the Swiss are, they have even more reason to fear outside influence. If you like the way things are there's no reason to go running to defend a people that the rest of the world rightly views as troublemakers and who have proven to cause unrest in every nation in Europe. Do you not remember the riots in Denmark when the cartoon image of Muhammed was used? I do. Every religion lends itself to radicalization but the sheer rabidness that has been produced in a culture like Islam, that shuns education, is truly a sight to behold.

Frankly, the Muslims in Europe have been doing the exact opposite of what they should've done to succeed. They've been militant, they've been visible and they've been visibly different all at the same time while being economically poor. Of course there will be a backlash, especially among the lower class workers whose livelihoods they threaten. It's been brewing in Europe for decades and it's only now starting to spill over. Let's hope this 'cleansing' doesn't go as far as your previous pogroms and inquisitions.

It really has little to do with 'racism' or 'religious discrimination' or any other term you want to use. Humans are and always will be tribal in nature no matter how many efforts are made to break that particular trait. We're all a bit xenophobic against that which we don't fully understand or are unfamiliar with and no amount of education or 'diversity training' will change that. Do you surround yourself with friends that you do not find yourself agreeing with on intellectual matters? No. If you do then I'm sure there are other similarities that bind you together. Heck, people hate each other based on which sports team the other person supports and that's completely trivial.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-11-30 16:19:22)