BF2S Forums Racism Or Censorship?

CameronPoe wrote:

benefit wrote:

they were even described by the french minister as a hate rant

imagine if an israeli had made these comments about iran.......

and it was racist as the intention was to criticise israel and in the eyes of many haters there is no difference between jews and isreal

he should put his own house in order and that of his mate in sudan before he criticises anyone else's policies
just how many people have been murdered by arab muslims in darfur with the sudanese president getting support from arab leaders when condemned by the UN?

his attacks were all at the usual suspects ...israel or course....america and europe....but hey if you don't have problem with him ......good on ya....enough diplomats did and i agree with them ....not the mealy mouthed supporters who try to justify his odious behaviour

I said point out the racism numnutz. Quote the man. The specific references in his speech you deem to be racist. His actual words. Post them please.

FTR Jews =/= Israel. If it did then the 25,000 Jews living in Iran would probably be dead a very long time....

How is the Sudan conflict relevant in any way, shape or form to Israel? I'm puzzled. And by the way Iranians aren't Arabs. And I don't think much of Ahmedinejad. On the other hand I don't suffer from anti-Muslim bigotry.

benefit wrote:

good for you...what about anti-jewish bigotry....that is big among some today

benefit wrote:

but don't you think it would be relevant to discuss the racist murder of thousands in darfur by arab muslims which has been condemned by the UN at a racism conference?

benefit wrote:

and the people congratulatingthe iranian man are the same ones supporting the sudanese president when hews criticised by the UN just a few weeks ago....

benefit wrote:

so it is okay for  him to criticise israel for their handling of gaza when israel was retalliating to terrorist attacks......

benefit wrote:

it seems muslim leaders arab or not support muslim leaders arab or not and in the case of this man get kocks out of criticising jews for daring to live in the middle east

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-04-20 16:19:10)

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

lowing wrote:

YEah the land that is now Israel was once a bustling thriving populous before Israel showed up huh?

Lowing, you need to know how Israel was created.. It will help you understand the feeling of the native population in the ME.

Let me quote the late Jack Bernstein on this:

Jack Bernstein wrote:

To accommodate the increasing European Jewish migration, the Jews needed more lands but the Palestinian Arabs refused to sell. So, to get more land from the Palestinians, these communist oriented European (Ashkenazi) Jews resorted to the one thing at which they are adept -- TERRORISM. 

Their first major act of terrorism against the Palestinians was at the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin. During the night of April 9, 1948, two Zionist terrorist gangs, the Irgun and the Stem Gang attacked and massacred over 250 men, women and children.

Menachem Begin, leader of the attack on Deir Yassin and later Prime Minister of Israel, has this to say, "The massacre was not only justified, but there would not have been a state of Israel without the 'victory' at Deir Yassin'.

The massacre at Deir Yassin caused other Palestinians to flee their homes in fear. Zionist terrorists drove trucks with loudspeakers through the streets and over the roads of Palestine warning Palestinians that what happened at Dear Yassin would happen to them if they didn't leave.

These Zionist terrorists weren't bluffing: For Example:

They killed 60 Palestinians at Balad Esh Sheikh.
They blew up 20 homes in Sa'sa, killing 60 women and children.
They killed a number of women who were working in Saint Simon monastery in Jerusalem.
They massacred 250 at Lydda.
They killed 200, mostly old people, in the village mosque in Ed-Dawayimeh.
They killed 51 workers as they returned from their fields at Kafr Qasem.
Christian inhabitants of Kaba Bir'im were expelled from the village and the village destroyed. The village cemetery was desecrated, including the smashing of 73 crosses.

"THE LATE JACK BERNSTEIN was a rarity—an American Zionist who actually "returned" to Israel, not for a vacation or to summer on a kibbutz, but to live and die in Israel building a Jewish nation.  What makes him almost one of a kind, though, was his ability to see  through the sham and hype to the oppressive, racist, parasitic character of Zionism as practiced in modern Israel, and his courage to denounce it with the force and fervor of an Old Testament prophet."

I strongly suggest you Lowing to read his book.. i can provide the link if you want it..  Nothing nazi or anti-semite.. the guy was a ZIONIST..

edit:

And it's important to know that information too: 

"There are two distinct groups of Jews in the world and they come from two different areas of the world -- the Sephardic Jews from the Middle East and North Africa and the Ashkenazi Jews come from Eastern Europe. The Sephardic is the oldest group and it is they, if any, who are the Jews described in the Bible because they lived in the area described in the Bible. They are blood relatives to the Arabs -- the only difference between them is the religion."

Sephardic jews and arabs lives in peace together for a long time before the creation of Israel..There is no "natural" hatred of muslims towards jews..

FEOS wrote:

How is countries refusing to listen to racist nonsense "censorship"? If they were not allowed to listen to it, it would be censorship. If they choose not to listen to his nonsensical racist ramblings, it's not.

Pretty simple, really.

So, to summarize:

Dinnerjacket's rant? Racist.

Walking out on said rant? Not censorship or racist.

Israel's pseudo-apartheid policies? Racist, to a point, as Arabs are not prevented from participating in government, owning land (certainly not always the case in all areas), joining the military, etc.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

And lets say that a "scientologist state" was created in the middle of the united states 60 years go, would you not care?

Imagine thousands of american citizen displaced by that powerful scientologist state, and these american refugees would keep resisting by lobbing home made rockets on the scientologists head.. Would you blame the surrounding states to try to remove that scientologist state by force to help their fellow american refugees?  Would you consider these states aggresive for doing that? Imagine most of the rest of the world siding with the scientologist,funding them and arming them... would'nt you be pissed at the rest of the world too?

And imagine that that scientologist state was created in the middle of the USA because in the holy book of scientology, it is stated that they owned that land 5000 years ago when their great leader was offered the land by some E.T  !!

would you still say: "i don't care for the past.. the scientologist are here and i believe that if left alone, they would be a peaceful nation."

Also imagine that most of the scientologist living there and not real scientologist, they just converted 500 years ago.

Open your mind lowing.

You can "what if" me to death, it does not change my opinion that Israel is not a threat to the world. Islam is. If it was not Israel it would be someone else that needed to die because they were non-believers or some other reason, oh wait, never mind, they already are doing that.

Israel are as much a threat to the world as the other Middle Eastern nations, with the exception possibly of Pakistan in its current unstable state. I just wonder what the geo-political landscape would look like If Israel weren't a constant, Western-backed, finger in eye of the Arab world. It's very easy to look at things in only two dimensions but it must be said, a lot (but not all) of what is wrong in the Middle East is thanks, in some way or another, to Western meddling/influence in the region... and that goes for Islamic extremism to a certain extent too in that it's very easy to get people fired up and angry when you have such a clear and present enemy in front of you.

Last edited by lowing (2009-04-21 12:08:28)

Beduin wrote:

lowing wrote:

The problem comes in when the leaders of those nations, through Islamic law, or Islamic rationality, hord all the money coming in from the west for themselves while they let their citizens live in squaller. They get away with this because these very same leaders have their citizens convinced that their conditions are to blame on the west, who lives like like kings in their eyes and at their expense, hence the hate.

Name some countries that fits your claim.

Last edited by lowing (2009-04-21 12:41:09)

Beduin wrote:

lowing wrote:

Beduin wrote:

Name some countries that fits your claim.

yer kidding right?

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.PDF


also take note as to where Israel falls in compared to the rest of the region. I can imagine the hostility because of it.

i am a bit leazy, can you tell me where it is in the pdf they mention countires that fits your claim.
thx

Beduin wrote:

lowing wrote:

Sorry, if you are too stubborn and refuse to draw an obvious line from what I said, and the quality of life in the region I can not force you and am not inclined to try.

If you have a specific question ask it. If you have a specific challenge to what I said present it.

Yeah, I actually fail to see the link between the pdf and your claim :

lowing wrote:

The problem comes in when the leaders of those nations, through Islamic law, or Islamic rationality, hoard all the money coming in from the west for themselves while they let their citizens live in squaller. They get away with this because these very same leaders have their citizens convinced that their conditions are to blame on the west, who lives like like kings in their eyes and at their expense, hence the hate.

cant mention countries, just to be practical?

Braddock wrote:

You are correct that it is not official censorship in that it is not being advocated or legislated from on high but one could perceive it as a form of de facto censorship. What if all the Western powers had boycotted anything that discussed South African apartheid policies, branding them as "racist" towards the Afrikaners... they would not have been censoring the South African human rights movement officially but it would have had the same effect.

Braddock wrote:

At least you acknowledge, to an extent, the Israeli position towards Arab Israeli citizens, many on here do not. Although they have some equality in the eyes of the state I would still wager that in actuality they do not have life as easy as their Jewish counterparts.

Braddock wrote:

He kindly refused only to finds that the local residents group took it upon themselves to make his daily life so awkward when it came to community matters that he saw no choice but to leave in the end. I do find comparisons with Nazi Germany to be too extreme, but comparisons with apartheid South Africa are in the right ball park.