Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6851|San Diego, CA, USA
7 Ways Congress Helped Create The Problems They Are Now Trying To Solve

Fox Business wrote:

Ronald Reagan said the nine most frightening words in America are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”

Perhaps we could add a few words to that famous phrase now to: “I’m from the government and I’m here to help … solve the problems I helped create.”

Big government right now believes they are the answer to the economic problem.   While Congress itself isn’t the only party to blame, they are not blameless.  Using the public anger over bailouts, job losses and house price declines, the President and much of Congress are selling the concept that only bigger government, more regulation and massive spending can make the changes necessary to solve this crisis.   The big government plans include de facto nationalization of banks, printing trillions in new currency, regulating derivatives, forcing interest rates down to get already strapped Americans borrowing again and pushing through a budget with a deficit larger than all 43 prior presidents - including Bush II - combined.

The President seems genuinely confused at much of the public skepticism over these plans.    As a fan of history, perhaps he should look to the recent past to understand why many in America are having trouble buying into the idea that government knows best.

...
Read the full article...Fucking congress.
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6828|South Florida
They had a 9% approval rating but they got fucking voted right back in somehow.
15 more years! 15 more years!
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6992|Tampa Bay Florida
Ronald Reagan said the nine most frightening words in America are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”
What's even more frightening is that the man was in charge of the very government he seemed to hate so much.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

Spearhead wrote:

Ronald Reagan said the nine most frightening words in America are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”
What's even more frightening is that the man was in charge of the very government he seemed to hate so much.
and despite that... he did an amazing job... you are absolutely right...
Love is the answer
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6297|Truthistan

Spearhead wrote:

Ronald Reagan said the nine most frightening words in America are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”
What's even more frightening is that the man was in charge of the very government he seemed to hate so much.
three little words that explain the bubble and crash "supply side economics"

Wait I can do one better.... "Reaganomics"  I believe Reaganomics is a condition where you forget where you parked your economy.
nickb64
formerly from OC (it's EXACTLY like on tv)[truth]
+77|5913|Greatest Nation on Earth(USA)

Spearhead wrote:

Ronald Reagan said the nine most frightening words in America are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”
What's even more frightening is that the man was in charge of the very government he seemed to hate so much.
Not hated, the government doesn't need to be large, they need only to control what it says is their responsibility in the Constitution. The people need to be able to depend on themselves, not government handouts.
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|7062|San Antonio, Texas

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Ronald Reagan said the nine most frightening words in America are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”
What's even more frightening is that the man was in charge of the very government he seemed to hate so much.
three little words that explain the bubble and crash "supply side economics"

Wait I can do one better.... "Reaganomics"  I believe Reaganomics is a condition where you forget where you parked your economy.
So when you spend all this money with Keynesian economics and nothing happens what do you do? You're in massive debt. So you print money to inflate the currency to pay off the debt. You buy dept from yourself. How do you know when to stop? Hyper-inflation is on the way, and that will put you a huge depression with a worthless currency. A situation that is much worse then what you started with.
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6297|Truthistan
The list is interesting, but incomplete

True... "Congress passed and Bill Clinton signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act in 2000 that largely allowed the derivatives market to grow without regulation" but congress was led by the Republicans at the time and this act was the second last piece of legislation sign be Clinton before he left office. It is truly a POS twilight legislation that created the ENRON loop hole and deregulated electronic energy trading ie increases in electric rates and then the run up to $145 a barrel oil. The Loop hole was finally closed in June 2008 only after Bush had vetoed the first attempt to close the loophole. After the loophole was closed the price of oil started to decline thereafter. IMO not a coincidence.

True... "Completely missed and/or ignored the 10 year build up of the estimated $160+ TRILLION dollar derivatives market." But Bernanke was made head of the Fed on February 1, 2006. One of the first things Bernie did in March 2006 was to stop reporting M3 of the monetary supply. See This M3 March 2006 estimate was $10,000,000,000,000 March 2008 13,000,000,000,000. M3 is where all the derivatives should have been reported and not surprisingly its still rising although everything else is in the dump. M# is now estimated to be $14,500,000,000,000 and still rising. Now you would think that if it was a real problem the Fed might start reporting on it again, but they aren't, so the article lays the blame a little too heavy on congress and not enough on the Fed on that one. After all they were the ones that starting to hide the facts back in 2006.

True.... Fanny and freddy were problems, but they followed the private market in to the lucrative sub prime mortgages. In fact the private sector is responsible for about 75% of all subprime mortgages, not fanny and freddie.

True... "Allowed banks such as Bear, Lehman and others to borrow 30, 40 and even 50 times their capital base for a multiyear period." but its worse than that. They got money and were able to lever it up to 30 to 1, then they took the levered money and invested in CDOs and other derivative junk where it was levered another 30 to 1, making it 900 to 1. Meaning that if you lost 1/10 of 1 percent on the investment, then the investment was under water. Then commodities increased in price, the middle class suffered an income crunch and the mortgage defaults started to come in and these 900 to 1 investment destroyed all the capital these companies had. The problem here was Reaganomics run amok with little or no regulation, the supply siders ran up the commodities using deregulated electronic energy trading, and then there was the graft and corruption in the sec and the bond rating companies.

The article is flawed if it wants to scape goat congress and ignore what really happened. Congress is bailing out everyone because if it went to punish all the guilty parties it would have to gut and kill wall street the big banks, the energy traders and lots of others. This thing stinks they are all friends.... Look at Geithner and the others who are supposed to fix the problems, they are all fed lackeys and the whole thing is very incestual.


But anyway, to me the two theories that got us here are reaganomics with the small govt no regulation let the corruption reign BS AND the supply siders and their price fixing policies. Between the two camps, its only taken 25 years to ruin the country.
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6682|MN
And the Welfare state people that pushed the banks to go give these loans to questionable markets have nothing to do with this either.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6455|what

^ no it was Congress who pushed the banks.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6682|MN
Wasn't blaming a party.  The whole government, the banks, and the people blew this one.  I don't want to leave anyone out.  They all wanted a welfare state without even knowing it.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7064

AussieReaper wrote:

^ no it was Congress who pushed the banks.
ok.  just like its the "cans" who force americans to take illegal drugs...
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6297|Truthistan

AussieReaper wrote:

^ no it was Congress who pushed the banks.
Please
The profit motive an nothing to do with it right?
The private lenders were making the loans without proof of income. They Packaged these loans into mortgage back securities, sold them to companies would then split these securities into CDOs. They were paying off the credit rating agencies so all this paper was stamped AAA and everyone was making billions.
You should watch a CNBC show called "House of Cards" it breaks down the entire scheme.

Fannie and freddie came late to the party. The CNBC story actually has a mortgage broker who said that he started to ignore proof of income because if he didn't he would go out of business. This thing snow balled and if you didn't compete it meant the end of your business.

The blame the congress game is a smoke screen to dissuade discourse on the impact of unregulated greed that lead to the crash. A discourse that necessarily ends with an increase in regulation, which is something these same people want to label as socialism.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6455|what

That's weird, I was expecting you to agree with me marine, and sink the boot into the Democrat Senate which proposed banks lend to those less likely to pay it back in the first place.

I think you're just arguing cause it's me who said it lol.

Diesal and Livid, you are certainly on the right track. Blame lies everywhere. But blaming the ppl who took the loans equally to the banks and politician is shortsighted imo, it was obvious they would take the carrot dangled in front of them. To think otherwise is crazy and in an attempt to avoid the fallout the banks moved the risk to investment firms, yes it was greedy, but they had no choice.

The loans looked so bad on paper they HAD to be bundled before anyone would touch them. The rest is history.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6992|Tampa Bay Florida
De-regulation? 

/thread

Its how you use the government.  No one can argue against the fact that the current crisis is happening because no one was baby sitting the Wall Street fuckwits.  Big government is just a label.  Spending money is what the government does.
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6682|MN

AussieReaper wrote:

Diesal and Livid, you are certainly on the right track. Blame lies everywhere. But blaming the ppl who took the loans equally to the banks and politician is shortsighted imo, it was obvious they would take the carrot dangled in front of them. To think otherwise is crazy and in an attempt to avoid the fallout the banks moved the risk to investment firms, yes it was greedy, but they had no choice.
Did the banks put a gun to their heads and make them take the carrot?  Personal responsibility.  People are only enabling the greed of the banks by not knowing what they are getting into.  I guess if people are stupid enough to think the banks are looking out for their best interest they deserve what they get.  So yes, I do blame the people as much as the financial institutions and the government.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6851|San Diego, CA, USA

Mitch wrote:

They had a 9% approval rating but they got fucking voted right back in somehow.
Politics is always local.  9% for the Congress in a whole, but then ask them about their own congressmen.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7017|US

Diesel_dyk wrote:

But anyway, to me the two theories that got us here are reaganomics with the small govt no regulation let the corruption reign BS AND the supply siders and their price fixing policies. Between the two camps, its only taken 25 years to ruin the country.
companies made risky loans, when the housing bubble burst, people couldn't pay them back (which was why companies did not make those loans in times past)...so Reaganomics caused groups to take risky loans?  How do you figure?

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2009-03-31 14:38:44)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6903|132 and Bush

AussieReaper wrote:

^ no it was Congress who pushed the banks.
They did. I had a front row seat.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6297|Truthistan

RAIMIUS wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

But anyway, to me the two theories that got us here are Reaganomics with the small govt no regulation let the corruption reign BS AND the supply siders and their price fixing policies. Between the two camps, its only taken 25 years to ruin the country.
companies made risky loans, when the housing bubble burst, people couldn't pay them back (which was why companies did not make those loans in times past)...so Reaganomics caused groups to take risky loans?  How do you figure?
Reaganomics has a no regulation mantra. The entire housing bubble would have been avoided if the people originating the mortgages were required to authenticate income of those who were applying. Regulation would have prevented the problem. But to Reaganites regulation = socialism that stands in the way of profits. And the profit motive on the part of people originating mortgages, and those buying those loans and  repackaging them into garbage mortgage backed securities and CDOs was too strong to over come common sense.

To flip the argument made by people posting here who blame the people for taking the money, the same argument works the other way

No one was holding a gun to the head of the mortgage originators (most of whom have taken their money and now quit) or those buying these loans nor to the people repackaging those loans nor to the people buying these so called mortgage backed securities nor the people creating and buying the even more garbage CDO securities. Every one was motivated by profit including the people. But if you only look it at like those mortgages went from the person applying for the mortgage to the mortgage holder, then you are missing about five layers that those mortgages had to pass through. not to mention the rating companies that rated the garbage AAA, the sec who sucked off the heads of these corporations, the fed who stopped reporting M3 to hide the problem and congress and the president (the place where the buck stops.)

So No, no one was holding a gun to peoples head who took the loans, but the fact remains that no sane person with a reasonable risk aversion would have given those loans to these people. But they gave the loans and traded the loans to make huge profits and ultimately we're in a bucket of $hit because of it.

If you wanted to lay a percentage of blame on the people taking the loans then I would estimate that to be 1 of 5 layers or about 20%. I would further reduce that given the culpability of reaganites setting policy in the executive, congress, SEC and the Fed. Ultimate blame to the people taking the loans is probably >10%.

Those multiple of layers each had their opportunity to stop, but they were all to greedy and reckless, and the reaganites let them do it because to stop them would have been socialist. Hell look right now at the cackles against Obama who wants regulation increased and people think that's socialism, even after we just had this huge crash that proved that reagonomics is an ultimate failure and that these idiots can't trusted to self regulate. Why can't the be trusted? they are greedy and immoral and because they will come in take as much profit as possible, $hit everywhere and then they leave it to everyone else to clean it up.
Warhammer
Member
+18|5983
^^What if they learned their mistakes though?
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6455|what

Warhammer wrote:

^^What if they learned their mistakes though?
By that stage the other party is already elected.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6297|Truthistan

AussieReaper wrote:

Warhammer wrote:

^^What if they learned their mistakes though?
By that stage the other party is already elected.
who learned fromt heir mistakes? the kings of wall street or Congress?

I doubt Congress has learned anything. I heard Barney Frank taking at a hearing about no wanting to stand in the way of innovation in the area of financial markets.... that can only spell future disaster when the smart guys find a new black box of no regulation to crawl into to set up the next bubble.

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