BF2S Forums War in Gaza Official Thread

san4 wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Delusional? Suppose it's down to what you want to believe.  So lets look at some up to date statistics:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2r4u5xt.jpg

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statisti … alties.asp

Oh yes i forget, ahem its collateral. What Israel says and what it does are two very different things.

You said Israel targets civilians. Evidence of the number of civilians killed by Israel is not evidence that Israel targets civilians.

m3thod wrote:

i refuse to watch the video.
I have not said the mosque was packed with oxygen tanks (isn't oxygen highly combustible anyway?).  I pointed out there is evidence to suggest Israel is getting it wrong with regards to other strikes.

Vax wrote:

If IDF doesn't give a fuck why do stupid stuff like leaflets and text messages ? If they are doing it for Pr purposes only, it's tactically retarded...they are warning their enemies.
They have to know that is self defeating, the militants they are trying to go after blend in with the civilians; they are getting warnings too. They will just clear out and get back to the fight later.

really if they truly are bloodthirsty and DGAF about world opinion, why not just smash the place?
No warnings, no attempts at precise targeting, throw out intelligence gathering..

I'm likin FEOS's idea actually. Why waste money on expensive guidance systems ?


Hell it really seems Gaza has just turned into a big fireworks launch pad ever since Israel pulled out of it.....fuck it, maybe they never should have.

usmarine wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

usmarine wrote:

/win

I suggest these guys ask a veteran if they really think that, given the situation, they think are targeting civilians. The numbers are actually pretty fucking amazing. Consider the area is one of the worlds most densely populated as well as the fact that Hamas is intentionally offering their own up as Martyrs.

i cant speak for the IDF.  but all i know is there were TONS of times we broke off contact because the risk of civies was way too high.  naturaly the enemy didnt give a fuck.  they would duck into a house filled with people and start shooting at us.  lots of times they would booby trap the doors and do such a poor job they would kill the people in the house along with themselves.  but, that kind of stuff doesnt make the bbc so i guess it didnt happen.

Kmarion wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I suggest these guys ask a veteran if they really think that, given the situation, they think are targeting civilians. The numbers are actually pretty fucking amazing. Consider the area is one of the worlds most densely populated as well as the fact that Hamas is intentionally offering their own up as Martyrs.

i cant speak for the IDF.  but all i know is there were TONS of times we broke off contact because the risk of civies was way too high.  naturaly the enemy didnt give a fuck.  they would duck into a house filled with people and start shooting at us.  lots of times they would booby trap the doors and do such a poor job they would kill the people in the house along with themselves.  but, that kind of stuff doesnt make the bbc so i guess it didnt happen.

No just the bulldozing for absolutely no reason at all.

Kmarion wrote:

destruktion_6143 wrote:

Has Israel learned nothing from Lebanon?  They cannot win in a ground assault on hamas. Just cannot fight conventionally against a guerrilla militia. Watch the Israeli support drop once they realize they are going to get a LOT of casualties.

My prediction is either they leave defeated or they stay in gaza fighting like America in Iraq.

So going in the ground is completely thrown out because they made mistakes in Lebanon? Holy shit that a simple assessment. There is now way they can do what they need to do without going in. Period.

But don't take my word, listen to the Lieutenant Colonel
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01012009/ne … htm?page=0

From earlier briefings in Israel, I know the IDF takes an almost absurd degree of care in its targeting. The questioning doesn't stop with "Is that the right building?" it then asks, "What should be our angle of attack to ensure any rubble falls into the street, not atop the primary school next door?" (Hamas consistently embeds terror facilities among innocent civilians.)

Hitting a terrorist hideout in an apartment building, for example, an F-16 would be armed with the smallest warhead that could do the job. If the terrorists are tucked into rooms on the fourth floor, targeting officers evaluate which window the guided missile should go through to kill the terrorists, while minimizing harm to civilians living below.

Any military veteran can tell that the Israelis are taking enormous care to spare civilians. Given the number of airstrikes thus far and the hundreds of tons of bombs dropped, it remains remarkable that so few innocents have been injured in such a dense urban environment.

But, as this column has stressed for years, fighting terrorists effectively means going in on the ground - and sooner is better than later. You can't impress fanatics into surrendering. You have to kill them. Nothing else works.

Let me repeat that: You have to kill fanatics. Nothing else works.

Ordinarily, Israeli leaders would only need to ponder battlefield costs and counter international pro-terror propaganda. But the rise of President-elect Obama complicates matters gravely.

Even the timing of Israel's strike at Hamas has been driven, at least in part, by the coming power transfer in Washington. The immediate trigger was the hundreds of Hamas rocket attacks on Israel after the terrorists refused to renew an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire, but Israel's leaders also counted on steadfast support from the Bush administration in its final days.

Obama's an unknown quantity, though. While hysterical claims that he'll be pro-Islamist from start to finish are absurd, even minor shifts away from supporting Israel's struggle against terrorists could have catastrophic consequences. And Israel's vaunted intelligence services can't tell their superiors what Obama will do, since few (if any) of the president-elect's supporters know what he intends to do.

In fact, the president-elect may not know himself. He's a babe in the woods, and the woods are full of wolves. Fighting political rivals doesn't prepare you for fighting terrorist fanatics.

For now, Israel must worry that a major ground offensive against Hamas would be halted halfway by the withdrawal of US support, both diplomatic and practical. The IDF even counts on us to replenish reserve stocks of the guided weapons that minimize civilian casual ties or penetrate tunnels and bunkers. Israel could find that it had paid a grim price in the blood of its sons and daughters, only to be robbed of the chance to hand Hamas a meaningful defeat.

As for our president-elect, his all-too-coy insistence that "we have only one president at a time" has been selective from the start. Glad to pontificate on stimulus packages and union benefits, Obama has used the one-president mantra to avoid taking stands on difficult issues that bedevil or bewilder him.

Uzique wrote:

Fuck Israel.

Kmarion wrote:

usmarine wrote:

san4 wrote:

You said Israel targets civilians. Evidence of the number of civilians killed by Israel is not evidence that Israel targets civilians.

/win

I suggest these guys ask a veteran if they really think that, given the situation, they think they are targeting civilians. The numbers are actually pretty fucking amazing. Consider the area is one of the worlds most densely populated as well as the fact that Hamas is intentionally offering their own up as Martyrs.

lowing wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

Israel is creating hundreds of freedom fighters with every palestinian they kill during that genocide.

Israel is digging its own grave..

To all those blaming Hamas for resisting, were you blaming the french resistance too in the 40s ?

I had no idea France launched attacks into Germany practically begging Germany to do something about it.