Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6905|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

I am answering both your questions implicitly. A quick summary:

- The election was clearly influenced by race, bot h by whites not voting for him and blacks voting for him because of his race. Whether or not he was actually elected is irrelevant, because the mere fact that it was influenced means racism is not dead. Unless you can prove he would have won unquestioningly had race been a null issue (which you can't) McCain might as well have won for purposes of declaring racism dead.

- Even if the election proves we have made great strides, making a thread about it has about as much class as a tabloid. You are still celebrating levels of melanin in the epidermis. Celebrate the man, not the race.

Now try to keep up k?

You are seriously straining to find the bright side. Hey it's k that we were one of the last Western nations to really get rid of segregation, because look at the strides we have made in such a short time! Conveniently omitting the fact that so many other nations have been where we are so happy to be for nearly hundreds of years. We should be embarrassed it took so long, not happy we managed to finally get our shit together quickly.
You are asking me to prove something that you cant prove. Using words like clearly without citing your reasoning is just further proof that you have absolutely nothing but your own perception of racial sentiment to go on. In fact if anything we experienced a reverse Bradly effect. The amount of people who said race mattered does not make sense when looking at the results.

Took so long? As in in a couple hundred years? You are beyond ridiculous tonight. Do you know how quick that is when viewed in historical context? The fact that you are comparing us with a continent that mastered the art of ethnic cleansing in just this last century is fucking hilarious.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

The grandmother was rhetoric by the way. Both my grandmothers are dead.
Sorry to hear about that.. maybe keep them out of debates next time.

Are you choosing to ignore what I am saying or is it just coming naturally?
I'll take your last response as a yes.

Your argument is asinine. You are implying that to acknowledge some level of "coolness" in addition to the fact that he won because of what he is offering is racist (just short of lynching him). Why didn't Jesse Jackson win in 84/88? I am fully aware of the fact that skin color is not a reason to vote. I have said this many times yet you can't manage to get over yourself long enough to accept that. What was prevalent before is not nearly as prevalent today. That is worth a simple post on a gaming forum (OMG the horror!). I'm glad Obama won. Well, as glad as I can be anyone won. I voted for him over McCain for many reasons.. none of which had anything to do with race. Now that all the votes have been cast and counted I can look back and say.. oh yea, and btw that was a black man.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6834|Global Command
What's this thread about again?
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6926|London, England

ATG wrote:

What's this thread about again?
Oh I don't know why don't you ask the OP I hear he's a reasonable guy that will give an explanation perhaps
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7012|67.222.138.85

Kmarion wrote:

You are asking me to prove something that you cant prove. Using words like clearly without citing your reasoning is just further proof that you have absolutely nothing but your own perception of racial sentiment to go on. In fact if anything we experienced a reverse Bradly effect. The amount of people who said race mattered does not make sense when looking at the results.
Reverse Bradley effect is racism.

Kmarion wrote:

Took so long? As in in a couple hundred years? You are beyond ridiculous tonight. Do you know how quick that is when viewed in historical context? The fact that you are comparing us with a continent that mastered the art of ethnic cleansing in just this last century is fucking hilarious.
Good lord look at all that has happened in the last 200 years. We have advanced in huge leaps and bounds technologically, and our nation specifically has been a cut above in just about every aspect except progressiveness. America is great, there are an aweful lot of unique things about it that I wouldn't trade for the world, and you have seen me argue about many of them. However, that doesn't mean we should celebrate the things that we haven't done so well either.

If a first grader can't read, that's a weakness. If that first grader catches up so that he is reading on a third grade level when he is in third grade, that is a good thing. That doesn't mean his mediocrity should be applauded.

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

The grandmother was rhetoric by the way. Both my grandmothers are dead.
Sorry to hear about that.. maybe keep them out of debates next time.
It served rhetorical purpose, the point had nothing to do specifically with my grandmothers. Racial acceptance was not a national epiphany, it happened over generational lines.

Kmarion wrote:

Are you choosing to ignore what I am saying or is it just coming naturally?
I'll take your last response as a yes.

Your argument is asinine. You are implying that to acknowledge some level of "coolness" in addition to the fact that he won because of what he is offering is racist (just short of lynching him). Why didn't Jesse Jackson win in 84/88? I am fully aware of the fact that skin color is not a reason to vote. I have said this many times yet you can't manage to get over yourself long enough to accept that. What was prevalent before is not nearly as prevalent today. That is worth a simple post on a gaming forum (OMG the horror!). I'm glad Obama won. Well, as glad as I can be anyone won. I voted for him over McCain for many reasons.. none of which had anything to do with race. Now that all the votes have been cast and counted I can look back and say.. oh yea, and btw that was a black man.
I acknowledge you know voting according to race is not something you do, or what many Americans do. Fine. Not great, fine. Don't pat yourselves on the back for not doing something bad. You also must realize that other people did vote based largely on race. It's not a good thing, but it can't and shouldn't be denied. It did effect the outcome, just as his height did, or what color tie he wore on a particular day. What we have no way of being able to tell is if it effected the outcome significantly or not.

Why do you ever need to acknowledge his race? I don't understand how that could possibly have anything to do with...anything. We don't hold anything against black people as a nation. They are equals.

As to your "why aren't you answering my question", I ask why you are trying to read every possible meaning into my response but the one that answers your question. I'm not going to spell out everything explicitly, I have confidence in your ability to think through what I write a bit to find your answer. It allows me to answer more completely if you work with me a little bit here.

Also somewhat relevent, a friend just sent me this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4LyozelGDY
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7012|67.222.138.85

ATG wrote:

What's this thread about again?
Kmarion celebrating black people because they're black and they did something a white person usually does.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You are asking me to prove something that you cant prove. Using words like clearly without citing your reasoning is just further proof that you have absolutely nothing but your own perception of racial sentiment to go on. In fact if anything we experienced a reverse Bradly effect. The amount of people who said race mattered does not make sense when looking at the results.
Reverse Bradley effect is racism.
Well fm you clearly don't know what the Bradley effect is.

A reverse of the Bradley effect would be exit polls showing people saying that voted for McCain, but didn't.

What we saw were exit polls showing an Obama lead, suspected that the Bradley effect would be relevant and the numbers were not that high, but they were spot on.

Kmarion is saying that the Reverse Bradley effect was people who said race mattered, when in the end it did not. How is any of that racist?

It's not racist if they said race was an issue, but not a deciding one for their vote. Those people saw past their pre-conceived notions that a Black candidate was unsuitable, and voted on the merits of his ideology\political plan.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7012|67.222.138.85

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You are asking me to prove something that you cant prove. Using words like clearly without citing your reasoning is just further proof that you have absolutely nothing but your own perception of racial sentiment to go on. In fact if anything we experienced a reverse Bradly effect. The amount of people who said race mattered does not make sense when looking at the results.
Reverse Bradley effect is racism.
Well fm you clearly don't know what the Bradley effect is.

A reverse of the Bradley effect would be exit polls showing people saying that voted for McCain, but didn't.

What we saw were exit polls showing an Obama lead, suspected that the Bradley effect would be relevant and the numbers were not that high, but they were spot on.

Kmarion is saying that the Reverse Bradley effect was people who said race mattered, when in the end it did not. How is any of that racist?

It's not racist if they said race was an issue, but not a deciding one for their vote. Those people saw past their pre-conceived notions that a Black candidate was unsuitable, and voted on the merits of his ideology\political plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

It's not just race, it's specifically a person saying they will vote for a black candidate and then not. The reverse could be either interpreted as either saying you are voting for a black candidate and then voting for a black candidate, or most likely saying you are going to vote for a white candidate and voting for a black candidate. In the latter case it's still racism.

A lack of social desirability bias would be the only thing that could mean a lack of racism.
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|7047|FUCK UBISOFT

hold on guys...

https://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CK6At6Xw89qmvAEQ2AUYTzIIIi3PeEvXZq0

Last edited by Miggle (2008-11-05 20:05:45)

https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7012|67.222.138.85
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6905|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

ATG wrote:

What's this thread about again?
Kmarion celebrating black people because they're black and they did something a white person usually does.
Everyone is celebrating, you jackball. African Americans included.

Even those of the opposite party:



I'm talking about our society overcoming something...  I'm tired of repeating myself. You choose not to get it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7012|67.222.138.85

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

ATG wrote:

What's this thread about again?
Kmarion celebrating black people because they're black and they did something a white person usually does.
Everyone is celebrating, you jackball. African Americans included.

Even those of the opposite party:



I'm talking about our society overcoming something...  I'm tired of repeating myself. You choose not to get it.
Haha, it's right/justified/logical because everyone is doing it. Good one.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6905|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


Kmarion celebrating black people because they're black and they did something a white person usually does.
Everyone is celebrating, you jackball. African Americans included.

Even those of the opposite party:



I'm talking about our society overcoming something...  I'm tired of repeating myself. You choose not to get it.
Haha, it's right/justified/logical because everyone is doing it. Good one.
Since you decided to just throw my name out there I figured I'd point out that it's not just me.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
13rin
Member
+977|6784
It was the perfect storm to get Obama (or somebody with that severe leftist views) elected. 

I could wright a doctoral thesis on it, but I ain't going to here.  There were several factors involved, media, bush, last two elections, flubbed opportunities by McCain, Brilliant slams by Obama's hit men (clark types), campaign fund raising, ACORN, and yes racism (both ways).

I somewhat agree with the statement that institutional racism being dead...  It has taken a sever hit, and for that -I'm glad.  However, Obama wouldn't have been my pick to break the institutional racism barrier. 

You guys are in for some serious buyers remorse when Putin and his pet tiger are back for 12 years and Hamas gets back to business.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6860

DBBrinson1 wrote:

You guys are in for some serious buyers remorse when Putin and his pet tiger are back for 12 years and Hamas gets back to business.
Hamas have never been out of business and Medvedev is merely Putin's puppet. What was McCain going to do - present a motion to the Duma on rejecting constitutional change...!?!
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

So long as we have legal means for preferential treatment based solely on race, we will have institutional racism in this country.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
13rin
Member
+977|6784

CameronPoe wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

You guys are in for some serious buyers remorse when Putin and his pet tiger are back for 12 years and Hamas gets back to business.
Hamas have never been out of business and Medvedev is merely Putin's puppet. What was McCain going to do - present a motion to the Duma on rejecting constitutional change...!?!
What?  And I thought the world was going to love us after Obama was elected...

Israel and Hamas just broke a 5 month cease fire.  Putin threatens missiles near Poland while revamping the constitution to regain "official" control.    The day after Obama wins. No offense Cam but... Fuck the worlds opinion and credibility of the US.  We need to do what is best for OUR country not theirs.  They do whatever the hell they want anyways, and as you've just said -it doesn't matter who we have in office.  Now we're getting a guy with zero experience on about everything except winning a bad ass campaign. 

I personally think he'll wuss out like Clinton.  But what if he doesn't?  How about the overreaction because he has to prove he's got steel in his spine?  WWIII?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

DBBrinson1 wrote:

I personally think he'll wuss out like Clinton.  But what if he doesn't?  How about the overreaction because he has to prove he's got steel in his spine?  WWIII?
Bush couldn't start a third world war, I don't think Obama is going to.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
13rin
Member
+977|6784

TheAussieReaper wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

I personally think he'll wuss out like Clinton.  But what if he doesn't?  How about the overreaction because he has to prove he's got steel in his spine?  WWIII?
Bush couldn't start a third world war, I don't think Obama is going to.
You don't give Bush enough credit...  I don't think he was trying to though (I get your joke though).  I don't think Obama would either, but he's an unknown.  McCain wasn't.  McCain probably realizes and appreciates  the cost of a soldiers/human life a bit more that OB does.

*but he lost so fuck it.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-11-06 16:55:14)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

DBBrinson1 wrote:

You don't give Bush enough credit...  I don't think he was trying to though (I get your joke though).  I don't think Obama would either, but he's an unknown.  McCain wasn't.  McCain probably realizes and appreciates  the cost of a soldiers/human life a bit more that OB does.

*but he lost so fuck it.
That's a bit mellow dramatic mate.

Bush wasn't trying to start a third world war, and Obama isn't going to try either was my point.

And to say Obama doesn't value the cost of a human life compared to McCain? I say bullshit, the holds the value of ones life more so, if he want's to close Guantanamo and leave Iraq (torture and the waste of US lives for a lost cause shows how he values each life imo).
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7012|67.222.138.85
Neither of you know how either candidate views human life, all you know is from empty rhetoric most likely not even written by them.
13rin
Member
+977|6784

TheAussieReaper wrote:

That's a bit mellow dramatic mate.

Bush wasn't trying to start a third world war, and Obama isn't going to try either was my point.

And to say Obama doesn't value the cost of a human life compared to McCain? I say bullshit, the holds the value of ones life more so, if he want's to close Guantanamo and leave Iraq (torture and the waste of US lives for a lost cause shows how he values each life imo).
I got your point even though I'm a dramatic, less enlightened person...

Tell that compassion bullshit to Obies Brother or Aunt.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
NgoDamWei
Member
+7|5968|Western North Carolina
"RACISM DIED TODAY IN THE BODY OF OUR POLITIC."

Surely, Shirley, you jest.

Oh, ok, maybe it will just evolve into extreme ethnocentrism.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6710|North Carolina

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Neither of you know how either candidate views human life, all you know is from empty rhetoric most likely not even written by them.
So true....

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