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Poll

Should a commander get x2 points

Yes82%82% - 34
No17%17% - 7
Total: 41
2006-03-09 02:47:26
bob_baur
Member
+5|6773|UK
Just want to get the general feeling about this. Is everyone happy with the commander getting x2 points at the end of a winning round?

I personally don't like it. The commander does play an important role in the whole game but not as much to warrant a doubling of his\hers points.

I was on a game the other night, full server all great plenty of teams and some good team work going on, as it should be. We all knew what to do after about 15mins in and we had the measure of our opponents.

The ticket drain was slow and some good points where being made. The commander was sitting where ever and was dishing out supplies giving the odd UAV and arty support.

I had teamed up with one other guy and we where making good progress pushing back the Chinese on the north side of the river (fushe), helping each other out and making points. I believe the push forward on the north side of the river was down to us two (there were a couple of other teams, not just us) and not the commander. The commander is a supportive role and that is it. There is not much skill needed to look at a map and do a couple of scans to know where people are and put a UAV down now again when there is a push for a flag.

When leading a squad you (I do) often look at the map and see where flags are being taken and where ones are being gained and where the rest of your army is. You can often know where the enemy is and what there next move will be when the flags go down. You can ask to help other teams by telling the commander to drop arty here to stop a flag turning or a lone wolf who can not spot a enemy clearly. Or looking at the map to see where the gaps are and making moves to close those gaps.

Anyway I ended up with 100 or so point and my team mate had around 70 and the rest of the USA had from 70 points down to about 20. THE COMMANDER THOUGH HAD OVER 400 POINTS FROM END OF THE ROUND!

Why the hell should that be!!! He's not doing the work he is supporting. If the commander had a better range of options, like being able to issue commands for medics or anti tanks say to certain locations and making those calls attributed to a successful defending of a flag or kills on the enemy then fair enough get a couple of points for that, but this leaching off the teams score indiscriminately and then doubling on top of that is just not on!

Am I wrong? Let me know your thoughts!
2006-03-09 02:53:52
imdead
Death StatPadder
+228|6771|Human Meat Shield
Question, if the the commander had 400 points you must've played 2hrs on a very, very unpopulated, small server and he was working his ass off capping and unloading on people. There is no unillegal way around that. And you are wrong, he is doing more work than you, he is supporting -- yes--he is making sure that you know what you are up against. He clears the way with arty, scans for other troops, drops supplies for his troops. That commander is your president/dictator/whatever for 300tickets, he is your gold key, he has more responsibilty than you do and is the first to get blamed when there is a loss. If you're team is at a loss the commander didn't do his job or someone didn't listen or was observant, it's mostly people out for themselves. The commander role is fine and underappreciated, they deserve the 2x in my opinion, our pixels lives are in his hands, whatever else we do with our pixels is up to us.
2006-03-09 02:59:16
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6812|Nårvei

Well, actually the commander can issue separate orders to medics, antitanks and so on .... its those small icons in the bottom of the commandscreen !

When that said - play a few rounds with and without a commander - he can infact make the diffrence if u win or loose a round.

Now there are good and bad commanders such as there are good and bad players !

On the other hand should we also reward the squadleaders some xtra points for doing a tad more than the squadmember or lonewolves ?

Last edited by Varegg (2006-03-09 03:00:34)

Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2006-03-09 03:03:34
bob_baur
Member
+5|6773|UK
I know where your coming from, but don't agree. It’s valid what you say but a squad of players are very capable of doing the things you have mentioned. The game by the way was 64 player fushe map with 20 people either side and lasted about 1hr 30minutes (timed server). Squad leaders and squad members of any intelligence can look at the map and see where the gaps are, see a flag has just been taken and the enemy is now going to either go to the next flag or entrench themselves for an attack. With the patch 1.2 and being able to see the enemy UAV you have another advantage of seeing that enemy has some interest in that area given you another advantage on conquering the map. I just don't think the title commander is warranted as there is no way for this commander to look at the enemy and they relay his\her strategy effectively to the teams.
2006-03-09 03:05:57
bob_baur
Member
+5|6773|UK

Varegg wrote:

Well, actually the commander can issue separate orders to medics, antitanks and so on .... its those small icons in the bottom of the commandscreen !

When that said - play a few rounds with and without a commander - he can infact make the diffrence if u win or loose a round.

Now there are good and bad commanders such as there are good and bad players !

On the other hand should we also reward the squadleaders some xtra points for doing a tad more than the squadmember or lonewolves ?
If you do it for one then why not all, its a team based game with a command structure put in place, but only this 'commader' role gets any kick back from the team based element.
2006-03-09 03:07:48
imdead
Death StatPadder
+228|6771|Human Meat Shield
Yeah SL should have a bonus, I agree, but just a small one because they aren't taking care of 32 players at once, the SL depends on the Commander, the commander shouldn't be fighting-especially in a tank- to me thats a loss if he's fighting, if you win, pure luck or you don't have decent or enough players.
2006-03-09 03:18:17
bob_baur
Member
+5|6773|UK

imdead wrote:

Yeah SL should have a bonus, I agree, but just a small one because they aren't taking care of 32 players at once, the SL depends on the Commander, the commander shouldn't be fighting-especially in a tank- to me thats a loss if he's fighting, if you win, pure luck or you don't have decent or enough players.
Yes again agree but, you can command a map very easily and make points. But the winning of the points on the map I believe is more to do with the players on the field. If you have got half decent players on your side doing squads and teamwork you’re going to do well, you might not win the operation but you would have had very good experience. I just don't feel having a commander watching over you tips the balance enough to warrant such big increase in there points if you win the op.
2006-03-09 03:28:25
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6812|Nårvei

Just like irl where the head of the company and the executives have a much higher salary than the guys on the floor doing the actual labor !

Unfair u say ? ..... but it must be that way !

What if the soldiers on the battlefield where left to conduct business on their own - it would be catastrofic, they will always need a commanding officer to lead them in battle, and thats how BF2 is build aswell :-)

We do need our leaders (except Bush that is) to draw the guidelines for us to follow.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2006-03-09 03:56:31
[pt] KEIOS
srs bsns
+231|6655|pimelteror.de
the commander has not only a supportive role. he leads. he scans. he kills. he repairs. he reads the enemies tactic and has a big responsibility on the outcome. so 2x commanderscore for a win is ok.
2006-03-09 04:06:09
master_yoda69
Member
+-1|6626|Exeter
If you don't give the commander x2 score for a victory then you will see few people be the commander as who in there right mind is gonna be commander so they can finish in midtable on his/her team and get around 20-40 points on most 32 maps.
2006-03-09 04:18:22
-fe.lep-
Member
+8|6705

Varegg wrote:

Just like irl where the head of the company and the executives have a much higher salary than the guys on the floor doing the actual labor !

Unfair u say ? ..... but it must be that way !

What if the soldiers on the battlefield where left to conduct business on their own - it would be catastrofic, they will always need a commanding officer to lead them in battle, and thats how BF2 is build aswell :-)

We do need our leaders (except Bush that is) to draw the guidelines for us to follow.
The commander deserves x2 AT LEAST.

I usually hit 100ish on a map like kark, if I command I dont get close to that even with 2x.  Make it 3X I say, taking time outa my point whoring to help team deserves rewards!  lol

As for bush being commander, well at least you know that lamer aint about to start fighting when hes ment to be commanding although Im keeping an eye out for when he goes running of the map.

https://www.bf2player.com/sig/45167778-3959.gif

Last edited by -fe.lep- (2006-03-09 04:20:58)

2006-03-09 04:32:48
Dagger37A
Member
+18|6766|USA
bob_baur have you ever played commander? A good commander is busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest! Check out this post by Ops Chief to see what a good commander does: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=11782

Then you decide if a good commander is worth the 2x, remember he only gets 2x if he wins.
2006-03-09 06:31:21
bob_baur
Member
+5|6773|UK

Dagger37A wrote:

bob_baur have you ever played commander? A good commander is busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest! Check out this post by Ops Chief to see what a good commander does: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=11782

Then you decide if a good commander is worth the 2x, remember he only gets 2x if he wins.
I play both in a squad and command. I try to encourage the whole team aspect of BF2 when ever I play. I find the commanding too easy and gets a bit boring. I believe squaddies can command a battlefield far better than the commander can. It’s where the metal meets the meat that the battle is decided and not by the commander trying to give direction from a far. As said earlier if there was a clear way for the commander to tell the squads his general strategy and the strategy works then the commander role can be praised with additional points but I still feel a doubling of points and especially in the case of the game I played where the command obtained 400+ points is a bit obscene.

I think some of my issues with the role could be down to the quality of the Commander as well. Because I have played many games with a commander sitting on his arse while we do team work and he\she is getting points from it.

So far though it seems people say yes to the x2 xommanding points
2006-03-09 08:16:22
FromTheAshes
Member
+53|6706
Yes they should. Commanding the right way is hard to do. And you ONLY get x2 if your team wins. A good commander can win it for the team.

Last edited by FromTheAshes (2006-03-09 08:21:16)

2006-03-09 09:25:24
topal63
. . .
+533|6720
Summation average of team players x a multiplier is an arbitrary system. It’s a stupid system.

Actually if you’re a good commander on a crappy team you can expect this to happen:
1.) The ticket loss from your teams inability to avoid kills and arty-strikes will drain the ticket barrel fast.
2.) You will get a LOW average score of a poor team - which is in fact arbitrary in light of what you do as team-support.
3.) You will not get a 2x bonus.

. . . and you get NO POINTS (as a commander) for any (arty or) NON-ARTY kills.

You should get points equal to your actions:
1 arty kill - 1 point.
Resupply crate heal - 1 point
Resupply crate repair - 1 point
Resupply crate re-ammo - 1 point.
1 Enemy kill (non-arty) - 2 points (like any other player).
Etc on all other BF2 player point awards. 

Your actions are in fact not awarded anything. . . it is based upon a the teams ability to get points period then is multiplied by 2 (if your better team wins).

Sometimes a better commander can make the difference but this is an exception and not the rule.
The rule is good team = more points = 2 x more points = arbitrary system.
2006-03-09 09:39:45
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6738|Salt Lake City

I think the system is fine.  If I am commanding a good, well organized, team I tend to let them do their thing and worry more about spotting and making sure I'm "Johny on the spot" with arty and resupply when they call for it, and making sure my assets stay in tact.  When you have an average or bad team, you spend quite a bit of time trying to issue orders to get people to go where you need them.

Under a system where the commander gets points for arty kills and heal/resuply points, you would have commanders spending too much time spamming with arty and supply drops, rather than worrying about the team aspect of the game.

Remember, the commander get a score that is the average of his teams score, and only if the team wins do they get the 2x.  I have personally been in too many situations where no one wanted to be the commander and we were getting our asses kicked because we didn't have one.  When some one finally took that role and started giving us the support we needed, then and only then were we able to stand a chance of winning.
2006-03-09 09:54:37
macca2001
Member
+1|6640

topal63 wrote:

The rule is good team = more points = 2 x more points = arbitrary system.
IMO a good commander needs to sit out most of the game, stay in the command window and perform the role of supplying, spotting, dropping arty and issuing orders to squads.  They dont get any support points from anything that they do, they themselves dont get points for capping, reviving, supplying repairing etc.  The commander will reap points from the performance of the team, and any kills that they themselves make.

As far as I can see, the chance of a 2x at the end of the game is the only reason why I would play commander, I would sacrifice so many more points by being commander that if I do the job well and help my team to win the round, I get the benefit of doubling my commander points.

It doesnt necessarily mean that I am put into the top three with a chance of earning a badge (which is probably the biggest problem people have with 2x BTW) but it means that sitting away from the action, helping the team and keeping protecting our assets is going to get rewarded if all that effort helped our team to win the round.

my 2p
2006-03-09 11:05:27
-=S8M=-Phoenix
Member
+45|6795|South Cybertown, Texas
I think X2 is shorting a good commander!

Maybe X3 or X4 would be better!
2006-03-09 11:12:17
Torin
Member
+52|6694
I'd say that if a commander didn't depend on his team to determine how many points he gets, then the 2x bonus could be done away with. But, since he depends on how well his team does, which depends on how well he commands, I'd say that he should get the bonus, being that he is limited enough already by the average skill of all players on his team. Without that bonus, he would always do just average. There should be some reward for leading your team to victory, and I think a 2x bonus is a good reward.

Not to mention, a very good player can still score higher than a commander getting a 2x bonus. I rarely lose out on the gold to a commander with 2x points. And when I do, it's because I didn't play to my fullest, or my team did rather good on average.
2006-03-09 11:16:01
Dr.Battlefield
Got milk?
+150|6754
1 Enemy kill (non-arty) - 2 points (like any other player)
. Commander does not get points for killing enemy soldiers and shouldn't. Back to 1.02 Commander whores who go command and take the tank only to get ALOT of kills and X2 points. No, thank you .

Last edited by Dr.Battlefield (2006-03-09 11:19:58)

2006-03-09 11:19:54
macca2001
Member
+1|6640
The only problem I have with the 2x is that it isnt always fair, sometimes the commander deserves more but sometimes he deserves less!

Its a shame the game cant tell if what the commander has done during the round contributed to his side winning.  I have played on games where the commander has done nothing but fight or fly and ends up getting the points, but then I have played on games where the commander rocks!

Should it be a team vote to award the commander the extra points?

Last edited by macca2001 (2006-03-09 11:20:50)

2006-03-09 11:22:40
Dr.Battlefield
Got milk?
+150|6754
^^^
Yeah, like they want to award you a mutiny in the beginning of a round.
2006-03-09 11:24:10
macca2001
Member
+1|6640

Dr.Battlefield wrote:

Commander does not get points for killing enemy soldiers and shouldn't. Back to 1.02 Commander whores who go command and take the tank only to get ALOT of kills and X2 points. No, thank you .
Errr...yes he does.  Commander no longer gets points for arty kills (since 1.12 I beleive).
2006-03-09 11:30:33
Shadow_OwNz
Member
+88|6655
if u get 100 commander points in a round how much does it add to ur global score?
2006-03-09 11:36:53
a fly
Member
+105|6646|The netherlands
not reading evrything:


wanna bet if  the nr1 commander commands, you lose with a noob commander who looks at maps and clicks things?

 

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