OpsChief
Member
+101|6674|Southern California
BF2 has orders! These orders may go from a BF2 Master Gunny to a Lance Corporal but in reality it is from a 14 yr old computer geek commander to a 40 yr old military veteran squad leader!!! Anything is possible here.

People complain that their squads get weird orders that ask them to change kits and make then run across the map.  Look at it this way... a weird order is possibly a misunderstood order. Instead of thinking "what a noob order" try "what is he thinking?"

In larger games of 16 or more per team the commander can afford to go for the Indirect Leadership Style (this means he is in the commander mode most of the game not running around with the squads). These ideas are based on larger games.

If the commander is Indirect he has probably assessed all the Squads capabilities and decided your squad had the best chance to complete a mission so he gives you the order.  I have noticed a tendency that people who are the highest scoring on my team are often the least flexible when it comes to multi-echelon cooperation. Except maybe aircraft they are always hungry for more targets and appreciate the pointers. I understand the sacrifice. Time away from killing = a lower stat per round. Just don't call the commander a noob if this is why you refuse the order. Deal with that. 

Let's say your squad is street fighting at the hotel in Karkand when the fickle finder of fate points to the Suburbs or Train Wreck asking you to go over to defense. Obviously the commander is an idiot because he can't see what you are doing....or is it that you are so focussed that you forgot about the teams needs? Maybe the commander spotted some movement and needs to keep the rear area secured. In Karkand the game can be lost in the first 5 minutes by one Squad deciding to refuse an order to defend the river crossings for a few minutes and letting a USMC squad leader get through and start spawning his squad up at the factory. It is a temporary order at best because when you are successful in the defense you get another order to move in hitch up and plow the stat farm. The result of refusal in that karkand situation will be armored attacks front and back with no UAV, arty or Sat support.

A squad order does not mean that the entire Squad needs to go to the objective. It means that the Squad has responsibility to complete the task. So your assault Squad gets a repair order? Send one or two guys in a truck to repair arty next time they respawn! He has time to change kits think about the task as for help if needed and you accomplish your Squad's assignment.  As the experienced Squad Leader you should analyze the Commander's order and decide how you will complete it, not if you will complete it. Take a quick look at the map and try to see what the commander sees. Then give your orders out and go do it.

Commander you better not send squads around willy nilly. Assess the situation. Task the appropriate Squad and if you get a squad that follow orders give them extra support. REWARD COOPERATION AND SUCCESS.

I use the task and talk method. I task the Squad with an order then VoIP him and quickly explain what we need. I will let him know that I have tasked another squad to support with x and that Artillery is incomming to soften it up, supplies will be dropped and the UAV is up so he can see what he is up against. I then Scan&Spot to let him know if anything stands between his squad and the objective. 

Understand that Squads are often decisively engaged and will have to respawn or finish their current skirmish before moving. Don't be impatient or if you are don't let anyone know it.

If a squad or someone isn't doing what you want exactly just remember there is no reason to yell , insult them or such - nope no reason. If you call a lone tank a coward for not immediately chasing 2-3 enemy Spec Ops soldiers into a building or an Engineer to cap a heavily defended flag alone you are out of your league and should resign. Instead ask him what the situation is and see what help you can send. Don't ask "why aren't you attacking?" but instead "how long will it take you?" and "what do you need?".

The Commander must be the ultimate team player and yet gets no team stats for it. The Squad Leader is the top battle facilitator with the most usable power in the game. If the Commander and Squad Leaders find a way to work as a leadership team then their team wins.

More

*edit for spelling and grammar lol

Last edited by OpsChief (2006-02-22 22:06:44)

Wildbill100372
Member
+1|6683
Thank you. I wish more people would read this.

I like to be the commander a lot. I think about the team winning. Not about my stats. The worst is when you see a large chuck of your team standing around the helipad. Grrr, aggravating. All of my orders are about helping the team win. But, the problem is everyone is worried about their stats and the shiny awards and ribbons. This game is built on cooperation, but all the stats and awards warp it into a me-me-me game.
uber73
Member
+188|6750|Brisbane
yes... good post..
i prefer commanding..  i look out for good squads, they get the dogs share of uav's, supplies etc.  nothing is more satisfying than asking a squad to go to a place, and seeing them react immediately.

nothing is worse than asking a tank to go intercept a runaway car/apc en route to a remote flag, hearing the tank reply 'roger' to request, watching him continue to tank whore where he is, we lose the flag, then the tide turns and we get humped. 


damned point whores.
vonSteuben
Member
+3|6701|Essen - Germany
I was commander yesterday for the first time ever, after we started to get humped on the Oilfields I wanted to send a request to the commander and realized we had none. So I hit the "Apply"-Button and got the position. Was a wee bit excited, since I didn't have any experience so far. But one grows with the responsibilities
It was a game with 12 vs 12, so I was able to keep an overview hehe

I had  a very fine squad that followed orders, did send requests and all that. I ordered a  squad of 3 to defend the central position when a scan showed incoming enemies and guess what? They held the spot. The squad of 4 was ordered to attack the power plant in the northwest (the one south of the Chinese Mainbase)
and they went in, I set up an UAV a little north of the flag, so they could see if any heavy stuff came down from the mainbase. When they were closing in from the south I dropped some supplies on the road so they could rearm, heal and repair while they stopped, because they actually DID stop when they saw my Arty coming in to soften up the spot for them.
They took the spot a bit later. I spotted snipers and the Helo came down on them fast.
We won the map by a small margin of 4 or 5 points after having less tickets when I took the post. Made me a bit proud
I was just mad at myself that I didn't take the commander'S position earlier in game, but hey, I guess I shouldn't complain too much. I got 26 command points for being commander for a little bit more than 15 minutes, so for a first timer this should be ok, I guess

But I often wonder about commanders that see that I am just one single engineer in a squad and send me  from the one side of the map to the other side through heavily defended enemy territory to cap a flag on the other side.

See ya,
vonSteuben
theDude5B
Cool member
+804|6749
Totally agree with you matey.

When i am a squad leader, and the commander will give me an order to defend a flag which is not near the action. most of the time i know that there is a reason for it. probably an enemy squad has broken through our lines and is on their way to this point needing defended.

If i am unsure, i will always ask the commander using VoIP to find out exactly what is going on.

It is always good when the commander is able to communicate effectively with his squads, so that at times when a squad is moving in on an enemy flag, they can ask for UAV, or for the commander to spot enemy soldiers around their location.
I have noticed a lot that when a squad is close to capturing a flag, the commander will drop supplies at their location just as an aid to help them. these are the good commanders who you know are doing their job properly and not hogging a tank hidden away somewhere.
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6840|Cologne, Germany

I decided to sticky this. Just thought the first post was awesome.
capt.flam
Member
+2|6683
Nice guide!
a great work
zhushma
Member
+-1|6736
hey guys how do i start a forum
elmer1082
To The Front
+4|6754|Columbus, Indiana
Thanks for the information. I am a new Commander and I have been reading the advice of others that have gone before me. I am learning ok I think, I just wish I could get my voIP to work. The only thing is that sometimes it's frustrating. The other day I was on Night Flight 64 player map. 2 spec ops and 1 support guy came the the SAS main base and started blowing the crap out of everything. I was the only guy at the main base and I was trying to take care of them. i had someone calling for arty and another calling for a UAV sweep. But my attention was trying to kill the enemy then get supply crates to repair the assests. It probably would have been a good idea to start off being an engineer. But if I dropped a supply crate on the arty before it could repair and charge up they would just blow it up. But the guys kept calling for what they needed I didn't say anything because I assumed they could see that the stuff was down.
Finally the guy typed "Hey Commander Dumbass do your job or resign". I mean I know they can't see me but I thought I was doing the best I could under the circumstances and was going to resign. I said no i'm not giving up but just try harder. We did win the round but the guy was pretty pissed with me. I said I was sorry and tried to explain what was going on. But only being able to type like 3-4 words a minute it's almost pointless to try to explain the story. Anyway thanks to everyone who posts advice for Commanding it doesn't fall on deaf ears.
OpsChief
Member
+101|6674|Southern California

elmer1082 wrote:

...the guys kept calling for what they needed I didn't say anything because I assumed they could see that the stuff was down. Finally the guy typed "Hey Commander Dumbass do your job or resign". I mean I know they can't see me but I thought I was doing the best I could under the circumstances and was going to resign. I said no i'm not giving up but just try harder. We did win the round but the guy was pretty pissed with me. I said I was sorry...
lol great description of the frustration of command, it is lonely at the top isn't it?...

Commanders aren't supermen, so ask for help before it becomes a problem. But if you are again in that situation with someone calling you dumbass, order his squad to come back and defend the main base. You both needed each others help!  If he refuses ask him to resign as squad leader (without the name calling part). Everybody has a job to do. Using combat power to benefit the team is the job of SLs, directing the team's battle is the commander's job.

Keep in mind commanders need to switch kits too. Grab an empty APC (give it back when the area is safe), or kill one of the attacking SF raiders then grab his kit and go hunt the others down and kill them.

Without VoIP ouch! and slow typing you need to master the commanders orders menu then. Use the combo of taskings and messages. Task & Talk. Practice on non-ranked servers a few times to get your command communication rythm down. Nobody gets stat pains that way. lol

Contrary to popular myth, it takes a stronger character to be accountable (apologize) for your actions. That shows you have room and the will to grow.
bustamante8151
Member
+0|6668
OK I am what all of you would call a n00b, but hey I have a job and a life... Anyway, how as a squadleader would you tell the commander that you have completed the objective? For instance "defend this position" purple smoke gernade, is there a way to pick it up afterwards? Do you shoot it? Another question from the commander side. How do you clear up the lines when you send a squad on multiple tasks?
Goose_MP[TBG]
Member
+1|6692
Just use your squad requests/orders rosette (default R or E i think), and select "request new orders"
Kkookie
Don't Flame
+20|6742|St. Paul, MN
Impressive. More people need to read this.
wraparoundww
Member
+-1|6663|Cleveland, OH
Well said.  Everybody should be forced to this before playing BF2.  It's a great guideline to go by.
airborne916
Member
+24|6664
When im a commander i dont even play with all that stuff that is going on. But when squads juat blow you off it;s just like ahhhh i need you here but they just go off with i want my medal blah blah. As a suqad leader people dont seem to fallow or something. Even tho they spawn on my they still just go running off.
OpsChief
Member
+101|6674|Southern California

bustamante8151 wrote:

OK I am what all of you would call a n00b, but hey I have a job and a life... Anyway, how as a squadleader would you tell the commander that you have completed the objective? For instance "defend this position" purple smoke gernade, is there a way to pick it up afterwards? Do you shoot it? Another question from the commander side. How do you clear up the lines when you send a squad on multiple tasks?
Good Questions. If you have VoIP running you can just call the CO (default V key) and tell him you are done. You can request new orders as Goose said or you can give an order to your squad using the orders menu (default caps lock) and a right click.

Some of the better squad leaders I have seen sort of "talk" to me by setting their squads new objective/missions and I confirm with the retasking.

Tasking multiple objectives for one squad using the orders menu can't be done(as far as i know), using VoIP it can. If you are in the right place you can "draw a Line" through multiple flags using an Attack Order for example, people should get the idea that they are going to need to fight all the way to the final objective.



edit for spelling again....

Last edited by OpsChief (2006-02-01 10:47:12)

sojoe
Member
+0|6659
Opschief, I am glad that some people are seeing and benefiting from your tactical genius!! I have tried commander a few times. I just don't have a knack for it. But after reading your post, I will try harder as squad leader/member to try to listen more carefully to the commander.  The problem really is when you get someone in there who issues weird orders. Like "attack this position" when it's a position you already have and there is no enemy in the area. As a squad leader/member you do lose confidence at that point.  Maybe there needs to be a “rescind order” command or something in case it was just accidental.

On a personal note - anyone interested should find the server Opschief is playing on if he is Commander.  It is really a cool experience. He is a retired Major and actually has commanded large military groups. You should listen to what he tells you , and do it. You will probably win if you do. We win games even if the other team has more "talent". Also he uses the military "lingo" to a T, and sometimes you start to feel like you are in some kind of actual battle.  very cool.
Da_MaDd_HaTtA
Member
+2|6658|Brisbane
i play Squad leader a lot, due to the way my mates and i play and i often found that without VoIP a squad, if not in the same room, is nigh on useless as most people dont read the mini map or listen to the verbal order. it annoys the crap out of me. one of the thing i have found usefull is the commanders that look at what i am doing and then issue the orders in accordance with that. even better than that is when they support you. i have found that the best rounds that i have played are those when the team is led by a commander who a). knows what he is doing, b). takes into account what you (Me in this case) are doing and c). is open to suggestion and listens for requests.
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|6791

elmer1082 wrote:

the guys kept calling for what they needed I didn't say anything because I assumed they could see that the stuff was down..
Talk to people.  Even if you haven't got VoIP rigged up (and I haven't - I had a USB mic and it doesn't work with my new sound card - tell them what's happening.  As commander you must respond to your team's requests, even if it's to say the supplies are regenerating, the artillery is blown, etc.

If you don't talk to your team, you shouldn't be commander.  Don't assume your team knows anything beyond what's in their sights.
OpsChief
Member
+101|6674|Southern California
@all replyers, thx much for your comments, encouragement and related experiences.

@aardfrith
I agree with that and will up you one further, if you can't or don't communicate then you aren't in command! You may be commander and use the commander's toys but that just makes you a high paid Forward Observer. Communicating is essential to command. My problem is without VoIP if I am in direct action the messages may get past me and to my experience most everyone else too. The orders graphics and verbal messages do get my attention much more often.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|6827|Grapevine, TX
OpsChief,
From an expert Commander's view this is some excellent reading material. From any officer down to a New Buck Private, this is a must read, for players that want to win on the battlefield. Keep up the good work.

EDIT: STICKY REQUEST!

Last edited by (T)eflon(S)hadow (2006-02-11 08:54:44)

chuyskywalker
Admin
+2,439|6846|"Frisco"

Moved to Featured Posts
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|6684
Ops, you make a very good point.  Sometimes if I want something specific done as commander and don't care who does it, I will type it into the team chat.  i.e. someone blow their arty.  I don't care who does the job as long as it gets done.  The same goes for a repair request.  If I see a squad that has a couple of engineers and I need something repaired, I will give the squad repairs need here.  What I really want is an acknowledgement from an engineer in the typed  chat.  Then when's he done, he can rejoin his squad. 

That is frustrating part of having lonewolves.  As commander I cannot see what kit or vehicle you have.  I trust my squad leaders to accomplish what ever task I give them.  I make an effort to assist them with the commander's toys, i.e. an arty strike right before the squad arrives at the flag i want them to cap. 

Without VOIP or other forms of verbal communications available my orders are generic.  I trust that the squad will do their best to accomplish that tasking. 

When I am a squadmember, I try very hard to stick close to the squad leader to ensure that I can support what ever order(s) he is giving in a manner befitting whatever kit I am playing at that time.  I have discovered that this is the best way to get a ton of points, and the occasional award.
JRVoss
Member
+0|6642
This was a wonderful post.  It is how I always play.  When given an order by the commander or squad leader, I move out.  Sometimes you have a commander that makes no orders at all, just keeps dropping Artillery everywhere.  That is as frustrating.

I used to be a scout in the service, went through sniper school.

I was wondering what everyones opinion is on having snipers do recon also.  Spotting enemy assets is, in reality a worthwhile goal, helping to lift the fog of war.  What do you think, if any, it's value is in a game like this ?
JRVoss
Member
+0|6642
This was a wonderful post.  It is how I always play.  When given an order by the commander or squad leader, I move out.  Sometimes you have a commander that makes no orders at all, just keeps dropping Artillery everywhere.  That is as frustrating.

I used to be a scout in the service, went through sniper school.

I was wondering what everyones opinion is on having snipers do recon also.  Spotting enemy assets is, in reality a worthwhile goal, helping to lift the fog of war.  What do you think, if any, it's value is in a game like this ?

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