BF2S Forums Is Abortion Choosing Who Lives and Who Does Not?

it´s not a tough choice. whoever knows familys with down syndrome childs knows, that it takes a lot to raise them and take care for them their whole lifes. you have the choice between abortion (and a normal life) or life long sacrifice. I do respect those, who take care of them and choose life - but i fully understand those, who don´t.
it is a personal decision and whatever it is, we don´t have the right to intervene.

I agree with FEOS. In actual fact Down Syndrome people appear to me to have far happier lives than the rest of us, faced with the drudgery of lost innocence.

FEOS wrote:

Most of you clearly don't have the first clue about Down Syndrome or what life is like raising a kid with Down Syndrome. You act as if Down Syndrome is some kind of death sentence, when it most certainly is not. People see trisomy 21 (Down Syndrome) and think "oh my god, there's no way I could raise a kid like that" but then don't think twice about what a blessing it is. There are far more knowns about Downs than there are in a "typical" kid. Nobody thinks "oh my god. I'm having a child. They may turn into a sociopathic serial killer" but they are basically doing the same thing with Downs.

People who have trisomy 21 have a spectrum of "normalcy" just like everyone else. There are other, far more serious chromosomal abnormalities that one could apply the abortion argument to...Down Syndrome is simply not one of them.

Yep, most every kid has problems of one form or another, and they all take significant parenting ... if the Amniocentesis diagnosed every one of these issues, then (using the Down Syndrome statistics) 90% of all children would be aborted.

TheAussieReaper wrote:

But there's a lot of grey area when it comes to right and wrong with abortion.

Exactly, it's up to each and every parent to decide what to do. Just because it's legal doesn't mean the parent doesn't feel emotions, or will be thinking about it for many years to come. Leave it legal, let people make their own choices.

chittydog wrote:

[...] sustaining life rather than stopping it as it's beginning, but the root of it is the same: deciding who lives and who dies.

Except that it's harder to make people hate you by saving lives than it is when taking them. The issue of 'deciding who dies' is more of a sore point than 'deciding who lives.'

You're asking a hard question. Personally, I don't think I could terminate a pregnancy, but I'm not willing to make that decision for someone else.

It's a debate caught right in the middle of law, science, religion, morals and common sense, and there are multiple categories of reasons people have to consider the process.

It's hard to develop a stance on the issue because it is being bombarded by so many hypocrisies, conceit and absurdity from all sides. Kill a pregnant woman and you're charged with double-murder. What if you kill her at an abortion clinic? Could you get off with only murder, or would the doctor be considered an accomplice to the murder of an unborn child, but witness to the murder of the mother? Or would the doc be accused of attempted murder, but beaten to it by the double-killer? And what of the right to choose? If you take that right to the absurd, you could kill or arrange the death of a minor at any age, as long as they're yours.

Personally, it doesn't jive with my set of ethics, but for extenuating circumstances.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-09-20 07:34:27)

jord wrote:

You don't have to consider religion in the debate. Religious people can have their own debates about what their religious followers should do. Religion should not sway the debate for everyone else.

Trees should grow money, cars should emit chocolate and friendly elves should sprout from the ground. Society influences debate. Religion influences society. There's no way around it, other than for everyone to spontaneously become atheist or for a world government to crush all religion under the iron boot of progress.

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

jord wrote:

You don't have to consider religion in the debate. Religious people can have their own debates about what their religious followers should do. Religion should not sway the debate for everyone else.

Trees should grow money, cars should emit chocolate and friendly elves should sprout from the ground. Society influences debate. Religion influences society. There's no way around it, other than for everyone to spontaneously become atheist or for a world government to crush all religion under the iron boot of progress.

they could just follow the establishment clause of the first amendment

World Government > First Amendment.

Here in germany, young males at the age of 18 have the obligation to either spend 9 month in the army or in civil social organisations. people who chose the civil service have to take care for disabled people for example, or work at hospitals and so on. In my time in civil service, i met a lot of families with disabled kids - not a single one of them was a desirable form of family anymore. They were exhausted and frustrated. If you raise a normal kid, you might be frustrated, too, but your kid will be away after 16-20 years anyway. For the disabled kid, you will have to take intensive care, until the end.
Sure the down syndrome is a moderate form of disability. But as a parent, you want the best chances for your kid and if you know, that it will always be retarded and in need for help, i do understand, that people choose abortion and try again to get another baby.

Was it playing "god" allowing Terry Schiavo to live or leaving her to die?

In the end its the decision of the mother, and unless you're part of that family, it affects you in no way.

Well, yes, abortion IS choosing who lives and who dies.

Ofcourse, if you don't want to get pregnant use a condom, they're 97% sure to work *crosses fingers*

Anyway i think the law in UK is that you can have an abortion if your baby is severely disabled or if any 2 doctors agree. Might have been the older law though.

MGS3_GrayFox wrote:

Was it playing "god" allowing Terry Schiavo to live or leaving her to die?

In the end its the decision of the mother, and unless you're part of that family, it affects you in no way.

Does murder affect anyone outside the family? Genocide?

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

MGS3_GrayFox wrote:

Was it playing "god" allowing Terry Schiavo to live or leaving her to die?

In the end its the decision of the mother, and unless you're part of that family, it affects you in no way.

Does murder affect anyone outside the family? Genocide?

There is a world of difference between genocide and an abortion, I hope you know that.