BF2S Forums Dozy actress opens gob without thinking!

jord wrote:

Braddock wrote:

The_Guardsman wrote:

So its alright to kill innocent people, run extortion rings, knee cap people, sell drugs to list a few? People seem to have this romance that the PIRA were freedom fighters and unfortunatly its because of films like The Devils Own and no doubt this one will also be.
They may have a had a cause to start off with, but that went down the drain as far as l'm concered after they started to make money.

The British killed and locked up plenty of innocent people too my good friend. Just Google "Bloody Sunday", "Internment", "Birmingham Six", "Guidford Four", "RUC collusion". It's very easy to take a black and white view of something as complex as the troubles in Northern Ireland but it's pretty ignorant to do so. She's entitled to her opinion and it's entirely valid, I would have probably joined the IRA had I been living in Belfast during the troubles too. The Republican cause wasn't dreamed up over wine and cheese during a comfy soiree, it was born out oppression and suffering.

Unfortunately both sides let their morals and ethics slip during the struggle. I always supported the cause of the IRA but I could never condone the targeting of innocent civilians, it's a pity they didn't just stick to security services targets because they were actually very good at that.

As regards extortion rings, the selling of drugs and profiteering I think you'll find they're following the Loyalist's lead on that front. The INLA and Real IRA that exists now are nothing but Irish versions of the mafia and can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned.

Attacking security services is just as bad. You think old Danny who joined the British army at 18 isn't innocent? That he is some evil British politician and should be shot to death, maybe captured, taken across the border and tortured to death in the worst possible way? Attacking soldiers isn't "okay". Yes when they signed up to the military he agreed to put his life on the line. But just because he has a uniform on doesn't mean he isn't innocent and deserves to die by some sick fuck, high on crack torture "expert".

It almost seems like a lot of people think that because they're soldiers, they can be attacked, killed, kidnapped etc and it shouldn't be considered an outrage or anything. Of course, they like to tar the entire army for the actions of the few who did the wrong thing.

M.O.A.B wrote:

It almost seems like a lot of people think that because they're soldiers, they can be attacked, killed, kidnapped etc and it shouldn't be considered an outrage or anything. Of course, they like to tar the entire army for the actions of the few who did the wrong thing.

Well then you should learn to fucking read, because what I have always spoken of, is the failure of the British State to punish those "who did the wrong thing" as you would describe it. What were the consequences for their actions? None the British state would attempt to whitewash the incidents with inquires that vindicated the soldiers time and again, with them having medals pinned on their chests and honours bestowed on them by the queen. comprende?

M.O.A.B wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

It almost seems like a lot of people think that because they're soldiers, they can be attacked, killed, kidnapped etc and it shouldn't be considered an outrage or anything. Of course, they like to tar the entire army for the actions of the few who did the wrong thing.

Well then you should learn to fucking read, because what I have always spoken of, is the failure of the British State to punish those "who did the wrong thing" as you would describe it. What were the consequences for their actions? None the British state would attempt to whitewash the incidents with inquires that vindicated the soldiers time and again, with them having medals pinned on their chests and honours bestowed on them by the queen. comprende?

And the IRA members who carried out bombings, sniping at patrols and running up trouble didn't get anything good from their bosses for what they did right?

Don't be stupid, its much worse that a murderer gets a medal pinned to their chest by some old woman than a murderer who gets voted into a political position. All civilised country's vote murderers to lead them.

Vilham wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

It almost seems like a lot of people think that because they're soldiers, they can be attacked, killed, kidnapped etc and it shouldn't be considered an outrage or anything. Of course, they like to tar the entire army for the actions of the few who did the wrong thing.

Well then you should learn to fucking read, because what I have always spoken of, is the failure of the British State to punish those "who did the wrong thing" as you would describe it. What were the consequences for their actions? None the British state would attempt to whitewash the incidents with inquires that vindicated the soldiers time and again, with them having medals pinned on their chests and honours bestowed on them by the queen. comprende?

And the IRA members who carried out bombings, sniping at patrols and running up trouble didn't get anything good from their bosses for what they did right?

Don't be stupid, its much worse that a murderer gets a medal pinned to their chest by some old woman than a murderer who gets voted into a political position. All civilised country's vote murderers to lead them.

lol

IG-Calibre wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

Well then you should learn to fucking read, because what I have always spoken of, is the failure of the British State to punish those "who did the wrong thing" as you would describe it. What were the consequences for their actions? None the British state would attempt to whitewash the incidents with inquires that vindicated the soldiers time and again, with them having medals pinned on their chests and honours bestowed on them by the queen. comprende?

And the IRA members who carried out bombings, sniping at patrols and running up trouble didn't get anything good from their bosses for what they did right?

So.. what are you saying here exactly? that it was right for the British state to murder innocent civilians? it was justified because  of the actions of a minority of extremist militant Republicans?  SO.. by the same task should the Brits take to the streets and start murdering random British Muslims for every soldier that is killed in Afghanistan? learn them a lesson? exactly stop talking out your fucking hole. All Terrorists deserve the full weight of the Law, all tax paying civilians deserve the protection of the state, MURDERING THEM IS NOT THE PROTECTION OF THE STATE.. tool.

When did I say it was justified? I didn't say it was good that those who committed the wrong acts were awarded for it. Wrong yeah, but basically you'll tar the entire army with that brush that they were evil, murdering individuals who basically went civvie hunting, because of the actions of a few. If you think that the IRA didn't do the same, and often awarding for far worse, then you're duplicating an Ostrich with your head stuck in the ground.

I especially liked the line regarding the South Quay bombings from the IRA,

The IRA described the injuries as a result of the bomb as "regrettable", but said that they could have been avoided if police had responded promptly to "clear and specific warnings".

If they wanted to avoid casualties they didn't have to blow the thing up to begin with. But of course, brushed aside.

Vilham wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Im pretty sure every single British person in this thread has admitted the army did wrong big time. I have yet to hear the same about the IRA from the Irish people.

Have you not been reading my posts? I also know for a fact that Cameronpoe does not condone the killing of civilians either.

Yeah condone the IRA one second that start chatting about how Sinn Fein are good people.

You guys are very willing to bring up things the British did during the troubles and how they can't repent for what happened but are more than willing to forget that Sinn Fein can never repent either for what it has done either and happily vote murderers into power.

Doesn't sound like condoning to me. Say one thing do another.

And obviously I wouldn't prefer they were still terrorists I would prefer they were locked up where they belong along with the generals that made the calls on Bloody Sunday etc.

Well I don't see your generals getting locked up anytime soon so I guess you'll have to dry your eyes and get over it.

You do know what would have avoided all of this trouble, don't you? Britain minding its own fucking business and not attempting to lord it over the entire world. Britain have caused so much fucking shit all around the world and the number excuse used in its defence is "oh, it was a long time ago, get over it, we can't change the past now yadda, yadda, yadda"...well we're still paying the price here for Britain's imperialism today so you can keep your judgmental tone to yourself thank you very much.

And if you actually read my posts you'll see I've never claimed Sinn Féin are "good guys" as you like to put it. I don't even vote Sinn Féin here in the South. My views on this subject are quite clear...

I support the Republican cause.

I believe that the British army has no right to be in the 6 counties.

I do not support or condone the targeting of civilians.

I believe that despite the initial blame belonging on Britain's doorstep, both sides of the political divide in the North have to now work together and put the past behind them in order to build for the future.

Braddock wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

jord wrote:

Attacking security services is just as bad. You think old Danny who joined the British army at 18 isn't innocent? That he is some evil British politician and should be shot to death, maybe captured, taken across the border and tortured to death in the worst possible way? Attacking soldiers isn't "okay". Yes when they signed up to the military he agreed to put his life on the line. But just because he has a uniform on doesn't mean he isn't innocent and deserves to die by some sick fuck, high on crack torture "expert".

It almost seems like a lot of people think that because they're soldiers, they can be attacked, killed, kidnapped etc and it shouldn't be considered an outrage or anything. Of course, they like to tar the entire army for the actions of the few who did the wrong thing.

The minute you decide to put on a uniform and take an active role in occupying another country by force and oppression you become a target. I'm sorry if that does not compute with you, maybe if France or somebody invaded you you would all lie down like sheep and accept it...I don't know. Most other countries however, including Ireland, don't operate that way. Our land was taken by force by a foreign invader, we have managed to get back 26 of our 32 counties and have been trying to get back the remaining 6 - a situation which came to a head during the troubles when the British empire tried to play tough and provoked a furious (and not always morally or ethically just) response from the IRA. Thankfully nowadays we have a more tolerable setup where both sides of the political divide get a say in how the region is run.

Putting on a uniform doesn't mean you aren't innocent either. Yes, they become targets, but that doesn't make killing them right either or in other words basically make them lifeless drones that are essentially being compared with something that can be tossed away.

Also Britain has been invaded, a few times. Romans, Normans, Vikings have all come here through time. And no I wouldn't lie down, but I wouldn't kill civilians either, if the IRA had stuck to just fighting the army rather than planting bombs in populated areas, and using tactics such as kneecapping, they might have seemed a bit more legit. But they didn't so, they took the terrorists approach.

The cause of the IRA was just, the means of achieving the goals were often not.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-17 10:17:57)

Braddock wrote:

The minute you decide to put on a uniform and take an active role in occupying another country by force and oppression you become a target. I'm sorry if that does not compute with you, maybe if France or somebody invaded you you would all lie down like sheep and accept it...I don't know. Most other countries however, including Ireland, don't operate that way. Our land was taken by force by a foreign invader, we have managed to get back 26 of our 32 counties and have been trying to get back the remaining 6 - a situation which came to a head during the troubles when the British empire tried to play tough and provoked a furious (and not always morally or ethically just) response from the IRA. Thankfully nowadays we have a more tolerable setup where both sides of the political divide get a say in how the region is run.

N'Ireland was a part of the UK at that time, so the British Army were not there as an occupying force. N'Ireland was created about the 1900/10's IIRC? I don't know under what circumstances that happened, so that makes the exact status of the British Army somewhat variable, at least in the eyes of the Irish.

JahManRed wrote:

Vilham wrote:

[You support Sinn Fein you support terrorists. End of.

And lol at me keeping my judgemental tone... haha, what Britain may have done in the past doesn't equate to who and what the country represents now, wereas sinn fein are a bunch of terrorists who have murdered THEMSELVES. That is the difference.

You can rant and rave over what Britain USED to be or you can look at who Sinn Fein ARE.

So its ok to "used to be" when talking about the British Government. But "are" when talking about republicans.

Look, if you lived here and lived through the shit you would understand that the only way forward is through forgiveness and moving on. Your neighbour might be your enemy, but you better learn to live with him. The alternative is to start beating shit out of each other every time you meet. My sister lives next door to a guy who murdered 2 ppl during the troubles. Should she attack him or live in peace next door to him?

Sinn Fein like it or not represent the majority of Catholics in N.I. They are the voice of close to a third of the ppl in NI. They turned their back on terrorism along time ago and are now pursuing their cause peacefully.

You seam to be able to highlight plenty of problems but you have not presented any alternative solutions. 

Are the ANC terrorists? Are terrorists ruling South Africa? According to the USA they where until recently.
Are the Israelis terrorists because Lehi bombed the King David hotel killing British solders? The UK does business with Israel. They even describe them as friends, even though the IDF were formed out of Lehi and other Zionist terrorist organisations.

I think you missed my point. The people responsible for Bloody Sunday etc are no longer in positions of power. They no longer speak for the British people or have any control on us.

The people from the IRA responsible for terrorist attacks are now in positions of power. They do speak for Northern Irish people. You don't turn your back on terrorism, you killed innocent people, you can't just become guiltless because you say so.  It doesn't work like that. (Disclaimer - Third person use of "you" not actually referring to you personally, had to say this because last time I said something similar IG claimed I called him personally a terrorist.)

Simple solution find other people to lead a different republican party. Rather than voting for the one that is run by "ex-terrorists" (laughable thought tbh, its like if Hitler changed his mind after he gasses millions of Jews and surrendered, guess he wouldn't be a genocidal maniac any more.

Vilham wrote:

I think you missed my point. The people responsible for Bloody Sunday etc are no longer in positions of power. They no longer speak for the British people or have any control on us.

The people from the IRA responsible for terrorist attacks are now in positions of power. They do speak for Northern Irish people. You don't turn your back on terrorism, you killed innocent people, you can't just become guiltless because you say so.  It doesn't work like that. (Disclaimer - Third person use of "you" not actually referring to you personally, had to say this because last time I said something similar IG claimed I called him personally a terrorist.)

Simple solution find other people to lead a different republican party. Rather than voting for the one that is run by "ex-terrorists" (laughable thought tbh, its like if Hitler changed his mind after he gasses millions of Jews and surrendered, guess he wouldn't be a genocidal maniac any more.

Your Hitler analogy is preposterous by the way. Are you seriously trying to draw parallels between the actions of the Nazi party and the IRA? Are we seriously going to go down that road?

Also, you do realise that Loyalist paramilitaries were released as part of the Good Friday agreement too? And that these Loyalist paramilitary groups haven't even decommissioned a single bullet yet? And that many Unionist politicians have had ties with these loyalist and Unionist paramilitary groups?

The Labour party in the UK led a possibly illegal preemptive war against Iraq on the back of faulty intelligence, thousands died as a result...should the Labour party be thrown out of office and replaced by a party with no blood on its hands? Or are you holding to the belief that when uniforms are worn by the men doing the killing it makes it all okay?

Braddock wrote:

Vilham wrote:

I think you missed my point. The people responsible for Bloody Sunday etc are no longer in positions of power. They no longer speak for the British people or have any control on us.

The people from the IRA responsible for terrorist attacks are now in positions of power. They do speak for Northern Irish people. You don't turn your back on terrorism, you killed innocent people, you can't just become guiltless because you say so.  It doesn't work like that. (Disclaimer - Third person use of "you" not actually referring to you personally, had to say this because last time I said something similar IG claimed I called him personally a terrorist.)

Simple solution find other people to lead a different republican party. Rather than voting for the one that is run by "ex-terrorists" (laughable thought tbh, its like if Hitler changed his mind after he gasses millions of Jews and surrendered, guess he wouldn't be a genocidal maniac any more.

Your Hitler analogy is preposterous by the way. Are you seriously trying to draw parallels between the actions of the Nazi party and the IRA? Are we seriously going to go down that road?

Also, you do realise that Loyalist paramilitaries were released as part of the Good Friday agreement too? And that these Loyalist paramilitary groups haven't even decommissioned a single bullet yet? And that many Unionist politicians have had ties with these loyalist and Unionist paramilitary groups?

The Labour party in the UK led a possibly illegal preemptive war against Iraq on the back of faulty intelligence, thousands died as a result...should the Labour party be thrown out of office and replaced by a party with no blood on its hands? Or are you holding to the belief that when uniforms are worn by the men doing the killing it makes it all okay?

fine then if you really wish to be pedantic and give off an air of justifying what the IRA did...

A mass murderer says he gives up murder. He is still a murderer.

Those men can happily be locked up too. The simple fact that you don't think "former" members of the IRA should be locked up makes me think you are a very messed up person. And before you claim "where did I say I don't think they should be locked up?" then why are you arguing with me. If you argue against my thoughts that members of the IRA should have been locked up then you ARE saying they shouldn't be locked up.

I would be more than happy for labour to be thrown out and Tony Blair brought up on war crimes. Nice one again using the "But Britain did it" I have already stated multiple times that the soldiers should be locked up. Good job on making it look more and more that you support the IRA's means though. "blabla no i don't" Then stop defending them.

And you STILL are missing:

The people responsible for Bloody Sunday etc are no longer in positions of power. They no longer speak for the British people or have any control on us.

The people from the IRA responsible for terrorist attacks are now in positions of power. They do speak for Northern Irish people.

Im gunna copy and paste that until you actually respond to that point.

The funny thing is I can actually now predict what you guys will post in reply to any criticism of the IRA. Basically something along the lines of "but britain did this" which doesn't actually answer the point about the IRA. But you then claim you don't support what they did. Laughable tbh.

Last edited by Vilham (2008-09-17 18:48:54)

I was gunna type out a large response, but really where is this going?

You claim I have dismissed the actions of certain British troops, yet in the next quote I clearly state:

"Those men can happily be locked up too."

So no wrong, I have clearly slated anyone personally responsible for things like Bloody Sunday. Whereas you blame the entirety of the UK for what happened in the past. But happily support "former" terrorists. I love the fact that you still don't get this:


The people responsible for Bloody Sunday etc are no longer in positions of power. They no longer speak for the British people or have any control on us.

The people from the IRA responsible for terrorist attacks are now in positions of power. They do speak for Northern Irish people.

You basically respond back to the last point with some totally irrelevant point that doesn't address the fact that IRA members who ordered the killing of innocent people have been put into political positions. But like to harp on about the people that actually can't do anything.

You try to claim that the fact that British commanders haven't been locked up means that voting terrorists into power is fine.

You can respond to this if you like, but I don't really see where we are going with this. You openly support "former" terrorists. I condemn them.