i dont need to teach you shit, you are a grown ass man.lowing wrote:
You speak of experience yet you never share what it is.
we have been over this before, i dont have children.lowing wrote:
Yeah I am irresponsible and inexperienced and a shitty parent, yet with all of this that you suppose, I am not the one mixing illegal drugs, and weapons in my life along with my kids, and you are proud of it....... Really good parenting skills there buddy.
mine was spot on.lowing wrote:
I have posted clearly and rationally what my position is on this topic
Also, if you are going to correct my spelling and grammar as part of your argument, at least make sure yours is correct would you?
i can.lowing wrote:
Yup they let people like me own guns, law abiding citizens...............bet you wish you could say that.
STILL laughing about that.lowing wrote:
You call me inexperienced, when he only expereince you can gain is if you actually killed someone.
Great question in theory. Any person with a shred of compassion would choose the stun gun. Let's say however, this particular intruder is a raving psycho with a great memory and a blood lust for revenge. Let's also say this intruder is there to abduct your wife and do unspeakable things to her.ZombieVampire! wrote:
Let's assume, though, that you have a death ray and a stun ray. Both are perfect, and never fail. The stun ray will stun the intruder long enough for police to arrive. Which do you use?DBBrinson1 wrote:
I don't know about the epic P/L debate raging on here, but if someone comes in my house without my[families] permission ie. intruder, I'll kill them.
Yea, me either. I was trying to illustrate how may cycles of nonlethal, arrest, judicial system, release, repeat I have to endure.God Save the Queen wrote:
Ive never met or heard of anyone ever able to withstand a stun gun.
Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2008-07-03 12:35:01)
brought an e-tear to my eyewest-phoenix-az wrote:
I have not read the whole thread, but would like to comment anyway. Under Texas law he was not guilty of a crime. I wish people were allowed to shoot for property in my state. Instead you have to sit there and watch them steal your sh*t. You can chase them, or even threaten to shoot them, but if anything goes wrong during the chase or a struggle you could and will most likely be held accountable. If you feel your life is in danger you can shoot to kill, but that would not be an easy case to defend outside of your home.
If you have loved ones and have ever had your house burglarized you probably understand how it makes people feel. It takes some people a long time to get over the fear of someone coming in their house again and possibly harming them. We should not have to live in fear, the criminals should! Insurance can only replace certain items and usually doesn't cover everything you own. Plus the insurance claim will most likely result in a deductible and also an increase in premiums. Burglary victims are often out of pocket thousands of dollars and items that cannot be replaced.
I don't understand why theft, especially from a home, is not considered a more serious crime. There is no reason for someone to come into your home and steal or vandalize your processions. I think it's a very serious crime and I do believe it should warrant death, as should child molestation. It's too bad so many people think criminal lives are worth saving or preserving. Our country, and this world, would be a lot better place without the criminals running around costing innocent people lives, money, fear and stress. With that said I am a law-abiding citizen and would only use the force allowed to me by law.
He told the 911 operator that his neighbor asked him to look after his house while he was away. After the shooting, he did tell the police he feared for [his safety].B.Schuss wrote:
yeah, but only if he had been explicitly told by his neighbour to do so, i.e. keep an eye on his property.ZombieVampire! wrote:
Actually, it wasn't that they threatened him, but rather that Texas law gives you the right to degend a neighbours property with lethal force.
Or so I heard.
Like they say: don't mess with texas.
I've seen it. One of those dodgy videos on the internet.God Save the Queen wrote:
Ive never met or heard of anyone ever able to withstand a stun gun.
Maybe if you break into Area 51. They actually have signs that lethal force is authorized. That does not make it true of every, or even that many government facilities. What kind of facility are you thinking of, that gets you shot dead in seconds? I can't think of any (other than the afore-mentioned Area 51/ Groom Lake).S.Lythberg wrote:
if you broke into a government facility, you would be shot dead in seconds, homeowners should have the same rights.
people on methm3thod wrote:
I've seen it. One of those dodgy videos on the internet.God Save the Queen wrote:
Ive never met or heard of anyone ever able to withstand a stun gun.
next time you're in D.C., jump some fences, i'll be watching the news, so make a good spectacleimortal wrote:
Maybe if you break into Area 51. They actually have signs that lethal force is authorized. That does not make it true of every, or even that many government facilities. What kind of facility are you thinking of, that gets you shot dead in seconds? I can't think of any (other than the afore-mentioned Area 51/ Groom Lake).S.Lythberg wrote:
if you broke into a government facility, you would be shot dead in seconds, homeowners should have the same rights.
Last guy who jumped a fence actually just got arrested. That said, if you jump the fence wielding a weapon and/or screaming in Arabic...S.Lythberg wrote:
next time you're in D.C., jump some fences, i'll be watching the news, so make a good spectacleimortal wrote:
Maybe if you break into Area 51. They actually have signs that lethal force is authorized. That does not make it true of every, or even that many government facilities. What kind of facility are you thinking of, that gets you shot dead in seconds? I can't think of any (other than the afore-mentioned Area 51/ Groom Lake).S.Lythberg wrote:
if you broke into a government facility, you would be shot dead in seconds, homeowners should have the same rights.
many burglars do carry weapons (usually not middle eastern though)HurricaИe wrote:
Last guy who jumped a fence actually just got arrested. That said, if you jump the fence wielding a weapon and/or screaming in Arabic...S.Lythberg wrote:
next time you're in D.C., jump some fences, i'll be watching the news, so make a good spectacleimortal wrote:
Maybe if you break into Area 51. They actually have signs that lethal force is authorized. That does not make it true of every, or even that many government facilities. What kind of facility are you thinking of, that gets you shot dead in seconds? I can't think of any (other than the afore-mentioned Area 51/ Groom Lake).
Agreed on all counts. And unfortunately, the media loves to fasten attributes of undesirables to anyone with hobbies of a similar set.IRONCHEF wrote:
As much as I'm pro-gun, pro-castle doctrine, and for defending oneself, this dude did NOT fear for his life as his attorney said, he did NOT have any purpose but to kill..not STOP the crime. THe dude is bad news for the real citizens out there wishing to maintain what few gun related rights we have. HIs bad example may cost us.
He clearly shot the guys in the back, hence there was no danger to him..their hands were full. He was given repeated lawful commands not to shoot but his intention was to shoot...and obviously to kill, NOT to stop the crime in progress.
But hey..that's par of the course in Texas! Bigger and better, right? lol
On a side note, I'm glad he stopped them, sadly it'll not reduce crime from other illegal aliens stealing because they're not reading the court decision or chit chatting about their amigos who got killed. It may, however, help prevent further burglaries in Texas which is the ONLY positive I see in all this. BUt no, the dude is no hero...he's a textbook "gun-nut."
Vigilantism is a crime too. Insurance would've covered most of the neighbor's losses (barring heirlooms).Snake wrote:
Yey, lets punish the people who stand up to crime.
What is he supposed to do, turn a blind eye and tell his neighbours when they get back "yeah I saw the whole thing, even them running off down the road. I wanted to stop them, honestly".
For once, common sense seems to have prevailed.
A closed topic.mikeyb118 wrote:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=88562
Thanks for the update, although the argument has already been extensively covered.
But did he snap at that point or was he insane beforehand?SharkyMcshark wrote:
Let me start this by stating that I'm all for non lethal defence of your property, and your neighbour's property, killing someone if it's a case of self defence. But this is ridiculous. The main argument against gun control* is that sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-07-03 12:48:07)
Back in the '90's a guy with an SKS tried to jump the fence outside the White House. He was arrested, not shot. He had a gun; if anyone was going to die, it would be him.S.Lythberg wrote:
next time you're in D.C., jump some fences, i'll be watching the news, so make a good spectacleimortal wrote:
Maybe if you break into Area 51. They actually have signs that lethal force is authorized. That does not make it true of every, or even that many government facilities. What kind of facility are you thinking of, that gets you shot dead in seconds? I can't think of any (other than the afore-mentioned Area 51/ Groom Lake).S.Lythberg wrote:
if you broke into a government facility, you would be shot dead in seconds, homeowners should have the same rights.
Yeah. For those guys it's almost like catching a fly with a paper cup and an envelope rather than smashing it out of hand.imortal wrote:
Back in the '90's a guy with an SKS tried to jump the fence outside the White House. He was arrested, not shot. He had a gun; if anyone was going to die, it would be him.S.Lythberg wrote:
next time you're in D.C., jump some fences, i'll be watching the news, so make a good spectacleimortal wrote:
Maybe if you break into Area 51. They actually have signs that lethal force is authorized. That does not make it true of every, or even that many government facilities. What kind of facility are you thinking of, that gets you shot dead in seconds? I can't think of any (other than the afore-mentioned Area 51/ Groom Lake).
No, tresspassers are arrested, not gunned down. They will have their pistols out, that is only prudence. But you are not getting shot out of hand.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-07-03 12:50:00)
Yer right, there is not much a crack head could teachParker wrote:
i dont need to teach you shit, you are a grown ass man.lowing wrote:
You speak of experience yet you never share what it is.
or, at least, you say you are.....we have been over this before, i dont have children.lowing wrote:
Yeah I am irresponsible and inexperienced and a shitty parent, yet with all of this that you suppose, I am not the one mixing illegal drugs, and weapons in my life along with my kids, and you are proud of it....... Really good parenting skills there buddy.
IF i did, i would NOT whore myself out to the highest bidder, and let my significant other raise my children while i am away.
but hey, "things" are different to you and i.
and im still better than you when i smokemine was spot on.lowing wrote:
I have posted clearly and rationally what my position is on this topic
Also, if you are going to correct my spelling and grammar as part of your argument, at least make sure yours is correct would you?
i hope you are better with your guns than with your keyboard.i can.lowing wrote:
Yup they let people like me own guns, law abiding citizens...............bet you wish you could say that.
i have NEVER obtained a gun legally. every gun i have ever fired has been as legal as it can be.
oh and;STILL laughing about that.lowing wrote:
You call me inexperienced, when he only expereince you can gain is if you actually killed someone.
Last edited by lowing (2008-07-03 21:54:18)
And I bet Torres served no prison time for his "cocane-related conviction". Filthy bastards.The men Horn killed, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.
He probably wouldn't have been deported, and I'm almost certain that he wouldn't be convicted.imortal wrote:
It was never a criminal jury that saw the incident. First, a Grand Jury has to look at the evidence and decide if the state is even going to prosecute the case. Here in Texas, a Grand Jury is formed by 23 citizens from the county where the possible crime was commited. They decide if the state has enough admissable evidence to attempt to prosecute.B.Schuss wrote:
most likely ? I bet may ass it was. I'd also bet a lot of money that no naturalized colombians were on the jury.imortal wrote:
Well, here in the US, all crimes get taken before a Grand Jury who decides if it should be procecuted. In this case, they decided not to try to prosecute.
Nobody said the situation was perfect. Back in my Criminal Justice days in college (back in the early '90s) by professor told us about to local crimes (local then was northern Georgia). One was a man and wife taking a college fratertaty hostage at gunpoint and forcing them to clean his lawn (that the same fraternity toilet-papered). Another was a man having sex with his 13 year old daughter.
Granted, this was only by anecdote, but in both cases, the Grand Jury declined to send an indicment.
Was it a factor that these two men were illegal aliens? Most likely.
Just for a second, let's imagine the two burglars weren't illegal aliens from colombia, but sons of respectable US citizens, maybe Senators, or Ministers. Would the outcome have been the same ? You be the judge.. ( sic)
As much as I admire the US for letting 12 people un-knowledgable of legal matters, randomly pulled of the street, decide the fate of the accused, I really believe a case like this shows the flaws in that system.
The fact of the matter is, these two men are now dead because Mr Horn made a conscious decision to kill them. Of course he said he was acting in self defense. He knew quite well that was his only chance of getting away with killing two people. How someone can act in self defense by shooting two people running away from him in the back though, is something only the Grand Jury knows....
I agree that there was most likely a bit of "good ol' boy" politics at work here. I simply decline to attempt to state it as a fact, since I was not there.
How about if it was an illegal alien at home watching a couple upstanding white citizens break in? (oh, and if the illegal alien had a gun, it would automatically be a felony- ignore that for the purposes of the example) Would he be convicted? Oh, and even if he weren't, would he be deported?
whatever you think of me, im not stupid enough to own a taurus.lowing wrote:
Yer right, there is not much a crack head could teach
i have more, i have more experience, AND im more responsible than you are.lowing wrote:
LOL, Ok I forgot, so we are down to illegal drugs and weapons..............something about a pot calling a kettle black comes to mind when you speak of responsible gun ownership............dipshit
somehow the rest of the country manages to get a job where they live.lowing wrote:
Whore myself out? Really, Are you sure you are not a liberal, I have a skill, and use that skill to EARN money for my family, responsibly. I guess I could follow in your footsteps and become a drug dealer and stay closer to home, but my morality and personal responsibility beliefs forbid that.
and im STILL better than you.lowing wrote:
As far as you being better than me, or anyone else, I put your pathetic ass and all other drug dealers right up there with child molesters.
seeing as how i know my rights, they wouldnt be able to do jack shit.lowing wrote:
Nope I am sure you have obtained your guns legally......Speaking of legally, I wonder how long you would LEGALLY keep them if the cops ever searched your house for drugs. As a matter of fact, I wonder how long you would be living in it.
Dipshit