nVidia guarentees it will win price/performance battle

2008-06-25 14:31:44

#1

.Sup: be nice; +2,646|6723|The Twilight Zone

The president of NVIDIA board partner BFG spoke to HEXUS.channel to give his take on the launch of AMD/ATI’s Radeon HD 4800 series, which promises to put intense pressure on NVIDIA in the mid-range market.

“It’s always good to have competition and it’s been a long time coming from AMD,” said Herkelman. “However, if I was a consumer I would pause, wait for the reviews and see what NVIDIA does in response.”

Indeed, NVIDIA is in a potentially tricky situation. If it cuts costs to negate the anticipated price/performance advantage of the HD 4850 and 4870 then it will have to either compensate board partners and retailers or risk damaging its relationship with them. If it doesn’t react it might lose that dominance of the graphics market it’s enjoyed for the past couple of years.

“NVIDIA has been number one for quite a while, and still is. But now it has to consider its response,” said Herkelman. “NVIDIA has made a lot of money and it will guarantee it wins the price/performance battle.”

Herkelman was quick to point out that this was just a statement of his belief in NVIDIA and not derived from anything NVIDIA has told him. However it does at least imply he anticipates price cuts, but he insisted it’s not as simple as that. “It’s definitely complicated and that’s why it’s taking NVIDIA a while to respond. AMD has gone aggressive on price in order to gain back consumer confidence but its R&D spend doesn’t come close to NVIDIA’s.”

Nobody questions that, in the long term, NVIDIA’s R&D spend will yield products that further raise the bar, price/performance wise, but for the time being, with the exception of the sudden introduction of the 9800 GTX+, it is restricted to price-cutting as its short term response.

The issue for the channel is how those price cuts will manifest themselves. Board partners, distributors and retailers will all have stock bought at certain price points that they will now have to sell for less, such as the 9800 GTX. Unless NVIDIA compensates them, they will make a loss on these products.

Herkelman stressed that there is unlikely to be a blanket policy on this. “Each partner is in a unique position – it’s not clear cut how to react to price adjustments,” he said. Maybe so, but one thing’s for sure: any partners who aren’t happy with NVIDIA’s handling of the situation now have a good alternative GPU option.

Anyone believes nvidia? If they guarantee then it must be....

https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png

2008-06-25 15:05:57

#2

Naturn: Deeds, not words.; +311|6875|Greenwood, IN

Thats because ATi just killed them with the 4850/4870. So what I hope they make the GT280 lower in price. You got to love price wars in the end consumers are the winners!!!

2008-06-25 15:06:03

#3

aimless: Member; +166|6394|Texas

Well they've done it before. It's going to be a back-and-forth type thing constantly between ATI/AMD and NVIDIA.

2008-06-25 16:02:07

#4

Bell: Frosties > Cornflakes; +362|6819|UK

The only person who wins is the consumer. Nvidia cant win the price/performance war anymore than ATi can. No matter what they bring out the competition will respond. All that has changed is that the time between responces should now be quicker. You could argue though this has a bad impact in that your GPU purchase is probably going to be outdated quicker. But I'd rather have it this way.

Martyn

2008-06-25 16:09:04

#5

kylef: Gone; +1,352|6763|N. Ireland

.Sup wrote:
If they guarantee then it must be....

I wouldn't bet on that. Think about it: everyone wants to go and get an ATi card. What do nVidia say? " 'However, if I was a consumer I would pause, wait for the reviews and see what NVIDIA does in response.' " - to me, they'll do minimal price drops but people will still wait and it will put a dent in ATi's market.

I'm sure there will be a price war - but not to the scale as expected during the days of C2D / AM2.

2008-06-25 16:17:01

#6

Bell: Frosties > Cornflakes; +362|6819|UK

Something else just occured to me (btw sup I stole this and put it on another form ). The last point is interesting:

BFG wrote:
Maybe so, but one thing’s for sure: any partners who aren’t happy with NVIDIA’s handling of the situation now have a good alternative GPU option

Hints towards the possibility of the likes of BFG, XFX and Evga (amoung others) perhaps not defecting to ATi, but atleast releasing products for them. Considering Asus and Gigabyte already do it isnt beyond possibility.

Martyn

2008-06-25 16:21:06

#7

Brasso: member; +1,549|6900

Bell wrote:
BFG wrote:
Maybe so, but one thing’s for sure: any partners who aren’t happy with NVIDIA’s handling of the situation now have a good alternative GPU option
Hints towards the possibility of the likes of BFG, XFX and Evga (amoung others) perhaps not defecting to ATi, but atleast releasing products for them. Considering Asus and Gigabyte already do it isnt beyond possibility.

Martyn

Ooh, that really intrigues me. I love XFX and eVGA, and I'd love to have their warranties on ATi cards.

"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"

2008-06-25 16:35:35

#8

Bell: Frosties > Cornflakes; +362|6819|UK

haffeysucks wrote:
Bell wrote:
BFG wrote:
Maybe so, but one thing’s for sure: any partners who aren’t happy with NVIDIA’s handling of the situation now have a good alternative GPU option
Hints towards the possibility of the likes of BFG, XFX and Evga (amoung others) perhaps not defecting to ATi, but atleast releasing products for them. Considering Asus and Gigabyte already do it isnt beyond possibility.

Martyn
Ooh, that really intrigues me. I love XFX and eVGA, and I'd love to have their warranties on ATi cards.

It be a PR nightmare for Nvidia. It give ATi the final amunition to completly turn around the market. One thing Nvidia have always bettered ATi in is there PR devision, all this ''how its meant to be played'' and gamers choice stuff. I personally dont buy into it but ATi could do well to get into that side of things more. And with a dig at Nvida saying stuff along the lines of, looks like Nvida partners have came across to the side who really do it hows its meant to be played, would be pretty hard for Nvidia to come back from (other than releasing a killer card).

Btw if someone at ATi wants to give me a job feel free! Or even Nvidia, I can change my opinion at the right price I could certainly do better than that moronic Nvidia VP:

''We gonna open a can of whoop ass''. Fuck off you looser.

Martyn

Last edited by Bell (2008-06-25 16:36:23)

2008-06-25 21:05:01

#9

SpIk3y: Minister of Silly Walks; +67|6408|New Jersey

I think don't think Nvidia is lying. Since they dominated the market for so long, they have some wiggle room (in the form of extra money) to lower prices. I'm sure they can match ATi's prices if they really want to.

2008-06-26 04:09:06

#10

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6684|Finland

GT200 is the most expensive chip to produce nv has ever had because it is so huge. if they wanted to get competitive with the price against ATi, they would have to drop the price way too low compared to production costs.
btw nv said that GT200 is the last monolith GPU they make. multi-GPU is the future like ATi said already.

3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8

2008-06-26 04:26:42

#11

Bell: Frosties > Cornflakes; +362|6819|UK

SpIk3y wrote:
I think don't think Nvidia is lying. Since they dominated the market for so long, they have some wiggle room (in the form of extra money) to lower prices. I'm sure they can match ATi's prices if they really want to.

To bring it down to any meaningful saving, they would need to sell it at a loss. And unlike the Xbox 360 for example, or even the PS3 both microsoft and sony can re coup lost cash from the games, Nvidia sell you the card and that is it, they dont make anymore money out of you till you buy something else. Try explaining this to your share holders. Yeah we where doing so well but my head was stuck to far up my own arse :]

Martyn

2008-06-26 04:26:45

#12

Slayer: ---hates you; +1,137|7026|Hell, p.o box 666

This price/perfomance ATI/Nvidia fight will end like the former Intel/AMD fight.

For a short period (maybe right now) ATI is on top, but Nvidia will come back with a ten ton hammer that crushes every ATI chipset out there. Just like Intel did when C2D was released...

2008-06-26 04:34:56

#13

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6684|Finland

nv was on top before radeon 9700, then ATI was top till nv released 8800, now ATi is back on top for short time and nv strikes back soon... =endless war and customer wins.

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2008-06-26 04:37:03

#14

Bell: Frosties > Cornflakes; +362|6819|UK

Slayer wrote:
This price/perfomance ATI/Nvidia fight will end like the former Intel/AMD fight.

For a short period (maybe right now) ATI is on top, but Nvidia will come back with a ten ton hammer that crushes every ATI chipset out there. Just like Intel did when C2D was released...

AMD where dominating Intel for year's, C2D if anything is the ''short period'' that you mentioned. By the same logic AMD should come back against Intel with a ''ten ton hammer''.

It's ludacris for any company to claim this. I didnt know there was a definitive date that everyone had to get there products out for and we would judge them on who has the best at that time. It's an ongoing process, the only way either of them would win is if one bought out the other, or one was forced out of the market for what ever reason. Failing that it is something that will just go on forever. Both companies have had there time at the top, lot of people seem to think G80 was some sort of unique circumstance that put's Nvidia into some God like territory. If anything, a few year's ago ATi destroyed Nvidia's new card by much more than the G80 did R600 (I think it was back in the 9*** days). They constantly swap top dog status, ATi coming back like this is nothing new. Nvidia will take it back and loose it again, it's a tick tock market, one day your the best next your loosing.

Martyn

2008-06-26 04:49:54

#15

Slayer: ---hates you; +1,137|7026|Hell, p.o box 666

hm, ok you´re right here.

But I think the Radeon 9800 series wasnt the ubercard compared to the, I must admit, horrible FX5*** cards of Nvidia. A FX5900Ultra outperfomed every 9800 (add XT etc here) and had a similar price. When Nvidia released the 6*** cards, ATI had nothing in his hands to compete, the X800 series was nothing but a flop, same goes for X19** cards compared to 78**/79** cards.

And yet it hasnt been proofed (sp) that the new 48** card really compete with the 280 cards (well accoring to some trusted magazines and websites)

2008-06-26 04:55:11

#16

kylef: Gone; +1,352|6763|N. Ireland

* proud past owner of FX5500
* proud past owner of X800
* proud current owner of X1900XT

2008-06-26 04:56:34

#17

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6684|Finland

X800 a flop?!?!!? it is faster than 6800 ultra... and 9800xt beated all 5 series geforces. and X19xx was a match for 7xxx series.

edit: define trusted site. if techpowerup, tweaktown, guru3d etc. are not.

Last edited by GC_PaNzerFIN (2008-06-26 04:57:44)

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2008-06-26 04:59:57

#18

Slayer: ---hates you; +1,137|7026|Hell, p.o box 666

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
X800 a flop?!?!!? it is faster than 6800 ultra... and 9800xt beated all 5 series geforces. and X19xx was a match for 7xxx series.

Panzer, this is just not true. X800 series was a match for a 6600GT, but not against GT or Ultra, come on... The 9800XT was slower than a 5900Ultra, fact. A X1950XTX was slower than a 7900GTX, slower than 7950 GT and 7950GX2, fact.

Trusted sites, yeah like guru3d etc. show that a 9800GTX outperforms the 4850 in nearly every bench, and the price is just the same. FACT!

2008-06-26 05:01:48

#19

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6684|Finland

Slayer wrote:
GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
X800 a flop?!?!!? it is faster than 6800 ultra... and 9800xt beated all 5 series geforces. and X19xx was a match for 7xxx series.
Panzer, this is just not true. X800 series was a match for a 6600GT, but not against GT or Ultra, come on... The 9800XT was slower than a 5900Ultra, fact. A X1950XTX was slower than a 7900GTX, slower than 7950 GT and 7950GX2, fact.

I have a X800XT PE and it is twice as fast as my friends 6600GT

3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8

2008-06-26 05:06:15

#20

Slayer: ---hates you; +1,137|7026|Hell, p.o box 666

trice, I bet! I have a FX5900Ultra that is four times faster than my 9800GTX SLI

EDIT: just got a new price for 280GTX, hits the 399€

2008-06-26 05:09:02

#21

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6684|Finland

Slayer wrote:
trice, I bet! I have a FX5900Ultra that is four times faster than my 9800GTX SLI

please read this. you have no idea what you are talking about...
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=732&pageID=1200

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2008-06-26 05:15:15

#22

Slayer: ---hates you; +1,137|7026|Hell, p.o box 666

sure, havent tested and compared several ATI - Nvidia cars myself. Havent set up around 200 gaming rigs within the last three years. Ok, Im a tech noob.

2008-06-26 05:16:28

#23

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6684|Finland

Slayer wrote:
sure, havent tested and compared several ATI - Nvidia cars myself. Havent set up around 200 gaming rigs within the last three years. Ok, Im a tech noob.

are you seriously saying highest end X800XT PE is as slow as mid-range 6600gt?!!?!?

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2008-06-26 05:21:56

#24

Slayer: ---hates you; +1,137|7026|Hell, p.o box 666

nope, I´ve said that a X800 card (havent posted any type or serial numer) could not compete with an 6800 card. Sure there ATI had those XTX, GTO, XT PE card later, but when it hit the market, it was no match (although released nearly half a year later than the Nvidia cards).

I´m neither a ATI or Nvidia fanboy, I´ve builded systems with cards of both manufacturers, but it´s a fact that ATI cards were slower (but had a better display quality) than the Nvidia cards.

And I think, Nvidia will not step of the throne in the near future.

2008-06-26 05:25:08

#25

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6684|Finland

then take a look at this chart that clearly shows that X800XT PE is faster than 6800 Ultra. jsut like every other sites say.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desk … 559%2C1606

edit: you said x800 was match for 6600gt... but in fact it was more than a match for 6800 ultra.

Last edited by GC_PaNzerFIN (2008-06-26 05:27:52)

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BF2S Forums nVidia guarentees it will win price/performance battle

.Sup wrote:

BFG wrote:

Bell wrote:

BFG wrote:

haffeysucks wrote:

Bell wrote:

BFG wrote:

SpIk3y wrote:

Slayer wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

Slayer wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

Slayer wrote:

Slayer wrote:

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