BF2S Forums Recent events = make me hopeful

With kosovo declaring independence we fucked up big time.

1. Subprime loans.

2. Price of oil.

3. No real political improvement in Iraq - people living behind blast walls in segregated communities. Mehdi Army ready to crank up once the US army withdraws surge troops. Political goals unachievable unless US remain in Iraq for decades if not centuries if not ever. Turkey making incursions into northern Iraq.

4. Israelis building yet more illegal settlements in contravention of morality and international law despite their empty promise of a 'settlement freeze' in line with the US 'roadmap for peace'. No real political will from the current US administration to push for Palestinian statehood, especially given the fact there's a Presidential election looming where the incumbent can't run.

5. Russia getting gradually more belligerent.

6. Kosovo being granted independence is a bad thing and a reward to the Vulnetari, a militia that expelled hundreds of thousands of Serbs circa WWI. In 200 years time perhaps Mexicans will lay claim to an independent state of Mexifornia, eh?

7. Osama Bin Laden still at large.

8. Pakistan, a nuclear power, on the brink of anarchy.

9. Burma still ruled by a brutal military dictatorship.

10. Zimbabwe being run into the ground by a power-hungry egotistical grandad.

11. Africa still largely fucked up beyond all repair, particularly Nigeria, Somalia, Liberia, Kenya, Sierra Leone, Chad and Sudan.

12. The EU Lisbon treaty may get passed if Ireland votes yes in a referendum on the matter, which would put more power in the hands of Brussels bureaucrats and potentially lead to the nightmare scenario of an EU President Tony Blair.

13. The Irish Taoiseach is bringing the name of Fianna Fáil into the gutter with the ridiculous self-contradictory evidence he is giving at the Mahon Tribunal, which is investigating alleged irregularities and improprieties in his financial affairs.

14. Kim Jong Il still in power in North Korea.

15. The modern day gulag - Guantanamo Bay detention centre - is still open, allowing all and sundry to rightly drag the name of the US through the mud.

I suppose on the upside though the US haven't been silly enough to invade Iran.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-02-22 06:54:12)

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Situations don't change, headlines do. If you can't find anything wrong with the world you aren't looking hard enough.

Didnt say the worlds going to be perfect

But compared to the past 3-4 years, things are looking a lot better.  It's all about context.  The world will never be perfect.

There is a kid starving to death in Africa right now, his mother is watching and he can't do anything about it.

There is a woman being beaten in Southeast Asia right now, but there is no where she can turn.

There is a young adult in the U.S. right now who has completely screwed their life over because of cocaine right now, and they will spend the rest of their life, however long it may be, paying for the consequences.

When it's all put in perspective, it doesn't much matter what asshole is being put in charge of our nukes or what you're going to be chatting about over the water cooler tomorrow at work.

1. sucks to be you.
2. china is a communist country they have different rules deal with it
3. thats their fault.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Keep your head up Spearhead, your attitude is one thing you do have control over.

Situations do change, try being a Jew in Nazi Germany.

Way to respond indirectly.

Situation just moved from there to somewhere like Darfur.

But it changed for the Jews now didn't it?

Way to be judgmental and tell people how they should feel.

Okay guys.. I'll be frank now.

I have been so fucking depressed about world events these past few years its not even funny.  I know shit like Cam posted is going on.  I acknowledge it. 

So these past two weeks I see some good headlines, for once, in a long fucking time.  I don't think we should be in Iraq, but when violence goes down by 80 percent..... it makes me happy.  I know Iraq is fucked up, but the fact that fewer people are dying is something worth acknowledging, no matter how anti-war you are.

And maniac.... if the world is so fucked up, that by pointing out a few good things among the plethora of shit going on in the world is naive and foolish... then YES, life is NOT worth living anymore.  If hoping for change and pointing out even a few things is really THAT bad, then we're fucked.  Losing hope that the world can get better is worse than death, in my opinion. 

ATG wrote:

You go girl, spread that good cheer all around.

Arggg... I would, but now I'm slightly pissed to be honest.  Time to get drunk.

oug wrote:

5. But hey! Tonight I'm going to watch episode 4 so everything's peachy!

Maybe it's just that.  lmao.  That shows plays with my mind tbh.

Apparently my "doomsday" thread (19% Bush...) is all that is wrong with the world (US really) and I'll be standing on the street corner soon, naked with a "The END IS NEAR" sign on me... lol

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Way to respond indirectly.

Situation just moved from there to somewhere like Darfur.

But it changed for the Jews now didn't it?

Way to be judgmental and tell people how they should feel.

But it changed for people in Darfur didn't it?

Way to take an uncaring stance about the general human condition.

I do care about human condition, nice jump. This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen you attempt. .. As if the Jewish people should not have been optimistic when Nazi Germany fell. Instead of being relieved when the were released from the death camps they should have been worried about a possible genocide in Darfur 58 years later.

Stop winking at me.. your not my type.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

But it changed for people in Darfur didn't it?

Way to take an uncaring stance about the general human condition.

I do care about human condition, nice jump. This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen you attempt. .. As if the Jewish people should not have been optimistic when Nazi Germany fell. Instead of being relieved when the were released from the death camps they should have been worried about a possible genocide in Darfur 58 years later.

Stop winking at me.. your not my type.

Don't burn me with absurd claims if you can't take it yourself. Being judgmental and telling people how to feel? It's my opinion, it has no bearing on your own. And honestly, bringing up the Nazis and the Holocaust is pretty ridiculous itself, you're turning me into an anti-semitic.

You're still completely mistaking my point, along with apparently everyone else in this thread, my apologies for being unclear. Of course people should work to end the terrible circumstances such as the ones in Nazi Germany and in Darfur, but it doesn't change the fact that somewhere, there will be a set of people in the same situation within the next 20 years. No matter what you do, short of obliterating the human species as we know it, there will always be a Hitler, a Stalin, a Kim Jong Il. So while people should always be working to better the condition of themselves and their fellow humans, saying things are looking "up" only means you are either looking at a very thin slice of either time or area geographically.

So the way I see it you have three choices. You can sit on your ass in denial and not really do anything but maintain the status quo, you can accept the reality of it and choose to be a cold-hearted ass by not doing anything, or you can make a conscious decision to accept the state the world is in and do what you can to change it. I would tend to prefer the latter, but everyone is going to do what makes them happy. I suppose that is all that matters right, if a person works to truly satisfy themselves without hampering others' ability to do so, that's all we as a society can ask right? In any case it doesn't do much good to express your naive and brash opinions on the internet when everyone just insults you and calls you emo. (wait wtf? )

Kmarion I know you don't enjoy my audaciousness, but it's hard to avoid when it gets such a reaction from you. We don't get to see this Kmarion around here very much, I like talking with him...

What gave you the idea that I couldn't take it? Trust me I've handled much worse than anything you have said in this thread <3.

Giving you an example of a shift in a situation (I purposely choose an extreme one) does not mean I turned you into an antisemitic..lol. Feeling a little defensive are we?

You are being judgmental when you say stuff like "Nothing pisses me off more than when someone hears a story about a brutal murder or rape and acts all sad about it." The fact that someone has an emotional response to a tragic event and it pisses you off should be enough to tell you this. Learn to understand that everyone is entitled to react and deal with the world in their own way and you will be a happier person.

It's not your audaciousness that is irritating, it's the elitist attitude you have demonstrated here in this thread.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

The part about this being the most ridiculous argument you've seen me attempt, words like that are usually for when someone feels things have gone over the line. Good to know they haven't.

Not over the line. Just abnormally shallow compared to your other post.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Surely you could have come up with a better case than the Nazis? I know it doesn't turn me into an anti-Semite, nobody can do that but me. It's kind of a cheap tactic to force me to argue my case while dancing around touchy subjects being all PC though.

You simply looked to much into my example. Your coming off a bit paranoid tbh.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

That's judgmental? In that case I'm extremely judgmental, one of my favorite pastimes is profiling the people I see around me. Just because it pisses me off doesn't mean I act on it, besides lowering my opinion of said person. People are also entitled to be incredibly dumb, that doesn't stop me from trying to rectify the situation.

In all honesty I used to be the same way when I was younger. I actually made a conscious effort to change that behavior in my life. Yes, it will make you happier.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

On a slightly different note, I would consider myself a very happy person, I just get my kicks from the small things. I have no problems amusing myself.

You said it not me. <insert tremendous winking yellow face>

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Everyone is an elitist (irony?), it's only a matter of how subtly they state themselves. Can you, in sound mind, believe your ideals to be wrong? We all think ourselves right in abstract ideas, I just don't bother to word them all nicely to avoid stomping on someone else's opinion. I come here for a clash of ideas, a clash of ideals, and don't enjoy people tip-toeing around rather than getting to the point. I don't particularly mean to steamroll anyone, it only disappoints me that they don't stand up for themselves, but I do enjoy when someone sticks up and tells me no.

It not that you believe your ideas aren't wrong that makes an elitist. It's when you get pissed at the thought of someone else having a different opinion or emotion.

_{Looks at FM bleeding body}

Man down! Man down!

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

The part about this being the most ridiculous argument you've seen me attempt, words like that are usually for when someone feels things have gone over the line. Good to know they haven't.

Not over the line. Just abnormally shallow compared to your other post.

My posts all come from the same brain, there can be no difference in maturity between them. The only difference is how much you agree with them or not.

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Surely you could have come up with a better case than the Nazis? I know it doesn't turn me into an anti-Semite, nobody can do that but me. It's kind of a cheap tactic to force me to argue my case while dancing around touchy subjects being all PC though.

You simply looked to much into my example. Your coming off a bit paranoid tbh.

Mentioning the Nazis is pretty much bad debate form across the board. There are a slew of other examples that could have been chosen, but you chose that one. I tend to think you were just a little riled up at me from my previous post and it was a reactionary example.

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

That's judgmental? In that case I'm extremely judgmental, one of my favorite pastimes is profiling the people I see around me. Just because it pisses me off doesn't mean I act on it, besides lowering my opinion of said person. People are also entitled to be incredibly dumb, that doesn't stop me from trying to rectify the situation.

In all honesty I used to be the same way when I was younger. I actually made a conscious effort to change that behavior in my life. Yes, it will make you happier.

Happier if I do what? Stop analyzing the people I meet? Stop looking for their bias so I can play to it? Stop trying to determine who is competent and can be trusted, and who is an incompetent fool? The things I have learned and the benefits I have reaped from it are some of the most important things in my life.

I don't like liars and fakes. These people that I am talking about, who I said, "Nothing pisses me off more than when someone hears a story about a brutal murder or rape and acts all sad about it." about, are liars and fakes. They say "Oh that is so sad, I feel so sorry for that person," bullshit. They don't feel sorry for that person at all, if they actually did they would do something, anything to rectify the situation, or at least it would still be on their mind an hour later. It isn't even important enough for them to keep it in their thoughts, but, like Pavlov's dog, they have been trained to cry at every socially-defined heartbreaking story they see. There are some cases where people do feel truly bad for the wronged party, but they are in the minority.

I am young, yes. However I have been told a whole slew of things would change when I become a teenager (awkward years my ass), and very, very few of their projections were realized. I have had it beaten into head by my parents, by the media, by my friends, and by just about every older person I meet that doesn't meet me through some sort of screening. They all seemed to be so sure they knew about my priorities, my political leanings, my interests, my responsibilities, and how these aspects would change in five years. It was about 90% a load of crap, and because of that I consider the 10% of stuff they were right about to be a coincidence as a result. So you'll have to excuse me when I don't think you will ever be able to tell what will make me happy or not as I "mature".

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

On a slightly different note, I would consider myself a very happy person, I just get my kicks from the small things. I have no problems amusing myself.

You said it not me. <insert tremendous winking yellow face>

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Everyone is an elitist (irony?), it's only a matter of how subtly they state themselves. Can you, in sound mind, believe your ideals to be wrong? We all think ourselves right in abstract ideas, I just don't bother to word them all nicely to avoid stomping on someone else's opinion. I come here for a clash of ideas, a clash of ideals, and don't enjoy people tip-toeing around rather than getting to the point. I don't particularly mean to steamroll anyone, it only disappoints me that they don't stand up for themselves, but I do enjoy when someone sticks up and tells me no.

It not that you believe your ideas aren't wrong that makes an elitist. It's when you get pissed at the thought of someone else having a different opinion or emotion.

Not a different opinion or emotion, a stupid opinion or emotion. There are many issues where very smart people on both sides have fundamentally opposing views, such as abortion, gay rights, etc., but other times it is really inexcusable. You wouldn't be angered at the opinions of a Neo-Nazi? (and now we're even on the Nazi count, just don't go playing a racecard or something )

Spearhead wrote:

Flaming maniac, are you honestly suggesting the world hasn't changed?

Tell that to the freed slaves after the civil war.

Tell that to women in the 1960's who for the first time started getting jobs and starting careers.

Tell that to the liberated Jews and other victims of genocide after World War 2. 

The list, of course, goes on and on.  Forever.

I'm extremely judgemental, too.  But when I debate and think about politics I try to be as neutral and fair as possible, and try to understand where other people are coming from, even if they don't agree with me.

The world hasn't changed.

There is the same chance of human rights violations around the world, there is the same chance of a genocide around the world, there is the same chance that there is an oppressed group of people around the world. If we both take a 1000 year slice of history, you believe (not to put words in your mouth) that there are ups and downs in that time period, I believe that every bad event had the same likelihood of happening as a good event at that period, it is just a matter of a roll of the dice. Nothing fundamentally changes about the dice just because different numbers come up at different times.

Neutral and fair? How can a human being possibly neutral and fair? You have an opinion, express it.

I do enjoy having my views challenged and having intelligent people on the other side of the table. That doesn't mean I'm going to roll over to give them a chance to express their views.