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2008-01-20 10:09:01
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina
Cuban Missile Crisis

In 1962 the Soviet Union installed missiles armed with nuclear warheads on Cuba, threatening military facilities and population centers on the US.  During the crisis that followed, the actual use of nuclear weapons was a real possibility.  When war was about to start, the crisis was solved by Kennedy and Khrushchev.  How?  Thanks to diplomacy.  The Soviets took their nukes back to Russia and the US publicly agreed not to invade Cuba and secretly agreed to take its nukes out of Turkey.  This was really what Russia wanted, and they got it.  What can be learnt here is that appeasement isn't always bad.  The US appeased Russia and they took their missiles from Cuba, stopping WW3.  This didn't mean the US was weak, and Russia did not invade any European country over this.  Diplomacy solved this huge and dangerous crisis.  Without diplomacy and appeasement WW3 would have started over this.  Diplomacy means sometimes you threaten, sometimes you appease, and most of the time you negotiate.  Appeasement can save lives, this is the proof.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-01-20 10:29:15)

2008-01-20 10:11:03
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6623|London, England
But........Muslims r bad
2008-01-20 10:13:04
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|6762|San Antonio, Texas
We also put 180 U.S. Navy ships around Cuba in a blockade.
2008-01-20 10:15:35
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

We also put 180 U.S. Navy ships around Cuba in a blockade.
Yes, and that didn't help to calm the waters, in fact Russia took that as an act of war.  Again, diplomacy and appeasement, avoided WW3.
2008-01-20 10:15:50
dave_the_rave23
psn - do_one_ya_mug
+41|5981

Mek-Izzle wrote:

But........Muslims r bad
agreed !!
2008-01-20 10:16:58
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6768|UK
nah, that just shows that America is pussy.
2008-01-20 10:18:10
adam1503
Member
+85|6390|Manchester, UK
Now this is what appeasement really means. Not this
2008-01-20 10:24:21
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|6762|San Antonio, Texas

sergeriver wrote:

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

We also put 180 U.S. Navy ships around Cuba in a blockade.
Yes, and that didn't help to calm the waters, in fact Russia took that as an act of war.  Again, diplomacy and appeasement, avoided WW3.
Yes, I agree by taking out the missiles in Turkey under an agreement did help to avoid a war with Cuba and Russia. But, they were, for the most part, level-headed diplomats, not religious extremists.
2008-01-20 10:26:01
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

We also put 180 U.S. Navy ships around Cuba in a blockade.
Yes, and that didn't help to calm the waters, in fact Russia took that as an act of war.  Again, diplomacy and appeasement, avoided WW3.
Yes, I agree by taking out the missiles in Turkey under an agreement did help to avoid a war with Cuba and Russia. But, they were, for the most part, level-headed diplomats, not religious extremists.
Ok, forget about terrorists and Lowing's obsession, lol.  This thread shows that sometimes you can appease your enemy and get a better result.  That was the point.
2008-01-20 10:31:44
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6709|67.222.138.85
Compromise != Appeasement
2008-01-20 10:31:48
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|6762|San Antonio, Texas

sergeriver wrote:

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


Yes, and that didn't help to calm the waters, in fact Russia took that as an act of war.  Again, diplomacy and appeasement, avoided WW3.
Yes, I agree by taking out the missiles in Turkey under an agreement did help to avoid a war with Cuba and Russia. But, they were, for the most part, level-headed diplomats, not religious extremists.
Ok, forget about terrorists and Lowing's obsession, lol.  This thread shows that sometimes you can appease your enemy and get a better result.  That was the point.
Yes, as I said, you can get things done by dealing diplomatically with diplomats, but you won't get the same level of progress dealing diplomatically with extremists.
2008-01-20 10:32:33
adam1503
Member
+85|6390|Manchester, UK

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:


Yes, I agree by taking out the missiles in Turkey under an agreement did help to avoid a war with Cuba and Russia. But, they were, for the most part, level-headed diplomats, not religious extremists.
Ok, forget about terrorists and Lowing's obsession, lol.  This thread shows that sometimes you can appease your enemy and get a better result.  That was the point.
Yes, as I said, you can get things done by dealing diplomatically with diplomats, but you won't get the same level of progress dealing diplomatically with extremists.
Nobody mentioned diplomatic action with terrorists.
2008-01-20 10:46:53
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Compromise != Appeasement
Let me see this.  Khrushchev didn't want the US missiles on Turkey, so he places missiles on Cuba.  Then, Kennedy agreed to remove the missiles from Turkey if the Soviet Union removed the missiles from Cuba.  That's pretty much appeasement.
2008-01-20 11:11:54
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6132|North Tonawanda, NY
Serge, why don't you define appeasement as you see it here.  The word has several connotations, many of which are negative. 

We can't debate with you unless you tell us what you think the word means.
2008-01-20 11:13:04
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6603|132 and Bush

That was compromise. Both sides lost and gained in that deal. (appeasement is generally one sided.)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-01-20 11:15:07
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6763

Actually, I do not think so.  I think JFK was gun shy because of the Bay of Pigs.
2008-01-20 11:16:16
adam1503
Member
+85|6390|Manchester, UK

usmarine2005 wrote:

Actually, I do not think so.  I think JFK was gun shy because of the Bay of Pigs.
You think he wanted a nuclear war with Russia?
2008-01-20 11:18:27
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6646

sergeriver wrote:

Cuban Missile Crisis

In 1962 the Soviet Union installed missiles armed with nuclear warheads on Cuba, threatening military facilities and population centers on the US.  During the crisis that followed, the actual use of nuclear weapons was a real possibility.  When war was about to start, the crisis was solved by Kennedy and Khrushchev.  How?  Thanks to diplomacy.  The Soviets took their nukes back to Russia and the US publicly agreed not to invade Cuba and secretly agreed to take its nukes out of Turkey.  This was really what Russia wanted, and they got it.  What can be learnt here is that appeasement isn't always bad.  The US appeased Russia and they took their missiles from Cuba, stopping WW3.  This didn't mean the US was weak, and Russia did not invade any European country over this.  Diplomacy solved this huge and dangerous crisis.  Without diplomacy and appeasement WW3 would have started over this.  Diplomacy means sometimes you threaten, sometimes you appease, and most of the time you negotiate.  Appeasement can save lives, this is the proof.
the missiles that were removed from turkey were scheduled to be removed long before the cuban missile crisis.  they were obsolete and technology improved at the time.   thing was,  the USSR didnt have the long range capability that the US did at the time.   



I dont see how an embargo that has kept an entire nation stuck in 1959 is considered appeasement.
2008-01-20 11:18:58
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6763

adam1503 wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Actually, I do not think so.  I think JFK was gun shy because of the Bay of Pigs.
You think he wanted a nuclear war with Russia?
No.  Nobody wanted nuke war.  But conventional war would have happened if the Bay of Pigs never happened IMO.
2008-01-20 11:19:32
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6759|Argentina

SenorToenails wrote:

Serge, why don't you define appeasement as you see it here.  The word has several connotations, many of which are negative. 

We can't debate with you unless you tell us what you think the word means.
In this case achieving something by granting concessions.  JFK achieved peace by accepting to remove the missiles from Turkey.
2008-01-20 11:19:42
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6132|North Tonawanda, NY

Kmarion wrote:

That was compromise. Both sides lost and gained in that deal. (appeasement is generally one sided.)
That is why Serge should define what he thinks appeasement means.

It can be this:

"... the policy of settling international quarrels by admitting and satisfying grievances through rational negotiation and compromise, thereby avoiding the resort to an armed conflict which would be, expensive, bloody and possibly dangerous."

or this

"... something sinister, the granting from fear or cowardice of unwarranted concessions in order to buy temporary peace at someone else's expense... "

Two different meanings.
2008-01-20 11:20:30
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6763

Wonder if this thread has anything to do with lowing's thread....
2008-01-20 11:20:55
Tesla07
Member
+4|5947
We also tried to appease Hitler, but we all know how that turned out. The honest truth is is that you can not please everyone, especially people in a position of power. You try your best but if there a stubborn @ss and they let there power get the best of them then war is inevitable. We were just lucky that Russia didn't want war, cause if they did I might be typing this on a military laptop in some barracks right now in a hazard suit.
2008-01-20 11:21:12
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6603|132 and Bush

usmarine2005 wrote:

Actually, I do not think so.  I think JFK was gun shy because of the Bay of Pigs.
JFK was against the Bay of Pigs action. It was the crazies in the CIA that had actually wanted a war with Russia (It was there belief that we would win). There were all kinds of reports that showed this once the freedom of information act was passed. Some have speculated JFK's battles with the CIA led to his assassination.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-01-20 11:21:24
adam1503
Member
+85|6390|Manchester, UK

usmarine2005 wrote:

Wonder if this thread has anything to do with lowing's thread....
Lol of course it does.

 

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