Poll

If You Could Have Only One, Which One Would You Choose?

My faith18%18% - 35
World Peace81%81% - 153
Total: 188
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6640|949

topal63 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

dayarath wrote:

and agnostic person says he doesn't know wether there is a god or not.

An atheist knows there is no god.
Atheism in my view isn't necessarily a belief.  It's a lack of belief.  It is not affirming the lack of a god, it is simply refusing to accept a belief in god.  There is a difference.

Atheism is similar to religion in one major way - everyone's interpretation of what it is to be * differs.  In that sense, religion and atheism are more a philosophical question of self than anything else.
(IMO) Atheism is even less than that... actually. And (another IMO), there is no relationship of it to religion whatsoever.

Tis not a conviction, tis not a concern, tis not a belief - one does not have to deny that which one never affirmed; or could not find a single reason or fact to affirm; in the first place. Atheism is simple. It does not concern itself with endless, nonsensical and utterly pure conjecture (rooted in a mutating parochial mythical tradition... questions about god and religion along those lines are more akin to cultural anthropology rather than philosophy). Atheism simply means you've moved on (maybe, even beyond concerning yourself with god-conjecture).

It is like the moment in "The stranger" (A. Camus) when the priest is pressing the familiar sentimental appeal to god-argument as a consolation for a hopeless situation (or even a replacement for honest human hope). And Meursault is utterly irritated by the priests lack of clarity for the reality existing before and for them both. "Doesn't he see? Can't he see!" The guillotine waiting for Meursault is no different than the biblical "ye shall surely die" the only difference is knowing that certain date with death in Meursault case which has given him blinding clarity.

This culminates in a brief treatise on "certainty" and the "desire for life." He may not be certain about god-conjecture (does such exist? might something exist? who knows? only god knows? or knows not?); but he is definitely certain about things that he is not interested in; and that is god. He does not want to waste a single minute of his (now remaining short life) on god. What does exist is the desire to live; what would/could appeal to him is possibility; even the tiniest remotest possibility; that he could escape immediate-certain fate (the guillotine); and experience life... the desire for life.

As he contemplated the stone walls of his cell he did not contemplate finding god there...

"I said I had been looking at the stones in those walls for months. There wasn't anything or anyone in the world I knew better. Maybe at one time, way back, I had searched for a face in them. But the face I was looking for was as bright as the sun and the flame of desire – and it belonged to Marie."
__________

Speaking of things more interesting (and real) than god, how is that (out-of-your league) cutie doing you were seeing a few months back. Still encountering that life; the flame of desire that has a name?
Good points.  It is true that I don't really find myself pondering my beliefs or lack thereof as far as religion...I just find that what it means to be atheist differs from person to person, much like a relgious affiliation or conviction.

Yes, life is good in the relationship department.  Keep posting, we missed your knowledge.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-01-09 13:33:31)

topal63
. . .
+533|6727

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

topal63 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:


simply from reading any post that has anything to do with religion, you have dozens of people so fast to proclaim their lack of belief.   Im sorry if you dont see it as I do, but I doubt most of these folks are really atheist.
By folks, you mean young-kids who don't know shit about shinola? Who are "these folks?" Just curious... no biggie.
_______

PS: FYI, I decided to post something in this thread just to say HI to KEN, and work-in a Camus reference whilst doing it.
a lot of DST posters.   Most atheist I know in person (not that many actually, Im surprised.) are pretty consistent
Oh in that case... whatever.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6652
if it means anything I agree with you.
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6559|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

DesertFox- wrote:

Lai wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

I'd like to know how so many people consider this an "easy decision." Someone apparently got the fool idea that you only have faith if you worship a god and it's spread like wildfire. Faith isn't the word I would have chosen for this particular topic, but it still gives the gist that you're giving up what you believe in (as in having or not having a god) for world peace. I highly doubt the other hundred people who voted are that selfless.
Does that also mean that you consider not giving up what you believe in for world peace selfish?
No, but someone earlier called us 27 selfish.
Well you are.  By any religious or non-religious moral code, the almost infinite amount of lives saved by you giving up "faith" (however you define it) must hold more value than your loss.  I presume the World Peace would last forever so how many lives do you think you'd save.  How many disabilities would you prevent?

I wonder if those 27 people would have answered differently if the question had been " If you could only have/save one, would you choose your faith or save your mother's life?"
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6693|United States of America
Well I think I covered this in one of my older posts where I said that without I consider huge parts of my faith, world peace would never occur. So I suppose if it were only what I myself were to give up as opposed to the ideas becoming nonexistent, it carries more wait towards the world side.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6766|Argentina
Anyone answering "My faith", or Religion, or beliefs, or whatever, is being selfish.  The answer is too easy.  Nothing is more important than World peace, despite that is an utopia.  A true believer would renounce God without thinking of it.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6693|United States of America
Paradox pl0x
ThaReaper
Banned
+410|6648
Fuck god.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6652

ThaReaper wrote:

Fuck god.
guessing youre not atheist
Lai
Member
+186|6159

sergeriver wrote:

The answer is too easy.  Nothing is more important than World peace, despite that is an utopia.
Doesn't that make it a faith itself?

World peace for any cost regardless of moral values, principles,.. tollerate injustice rather than fight it,.. now that is an easy answer!
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6766|Argentina

Lai wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

The answer is too easy.  Nothing is more important than World peace, despite that is an utopia.
Doesn't that make it a faith itself?

World peace for any cost regardless of moral values, principles,.. tollerate injustice rather than fight it,.. now that is an easy answer!
No, this dilemma asks you to pick between your faith and the peace for all the people in the world, regardless of what the meaning of the word peace is for you.  If there's injustice there's no peace.  And it's not at any cost, it's only your faith.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6715|67.222.138.85

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Atheism is a religion, or at the very least a cult as much as typical religion is. You can't say if you believe in God anymore you have to give up that belief for world peace, but if you already don't believe in God than you can just go for world peace. Believing there is no God makes just as little sense as believing in God, serge you're just letting your personal views bias your opinions.
I hate this argument from believers and does not hold water.  Firstly Atheism and Religions are the same only on the basis that they share a name to describe a group of people who hold similar beliefs; but that then makes Republicanism or Vegetarianism a religion too.

For something to be a Region it has to contain a common set of belief systems.  Those belief systems in turn hold accepted beliefs.  Atheism is just one belief, that God doesn't exist, there are no other "rules" or related beliefs required.  Atheism isn't even a belief system let alone a Religion. 

In the same way that just having belief a God exists does not make you a Christian/Muslim/Jew etc simply believing God does not exit does not make one religious.

You put the safety net of Atheism being a "cult" in there and if you're being economical with the definition of the word I suppose you can just about get away with it.  Most people colloquially would infer cults as having rituals and at least one belief system.  Again if the belief on one topic, whether God exists or not, makes a cult then so does having a favorite colour or an opinion on what car is the best. 

Atheism has no morals rules or codes of conduct, it has no views or codes on any subject as it is simply the word for "without theism".
I'm an Atheist/Agnostic/definitely not a believer by the way, don't call me a believer. (in God I assume, I do believe in computer games and cake)

My argument stems from the fact that Atheists and Theists all have extremely strong beliefs that they are not willing to compromise in any form or fashion, almost to the point of fanaticism. That doesn't make it a religion no, but it makes it something more than the dictionary definition of a cult. I think it lends itself much closer to many of the connotations the word cult has, one of which being a fanatical devotion with little reasoning behind it.

Really religions have very few, if more than one core values, such as the belief in a single God in monotheistic religions. There are many extra pieces that go along with that certain belief, how to act, how to worship him, etcetera, but they all tie back to this one belief. Atheists in the same way have the one core belief of not believing in God, but that does not stop them from having opinions about how their life should be run. Even most theists don't follow the rules set down in their religion to the letter, even Gandhi ate meat.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6693|United States of America
What is world peace anyway? I'm sure we all have different definitions of it. I by no means see it as dance around the maypole/smile on your brother utopian society, but only the nations of the world not fighting one another. There's still crime, poverty, and things like that.
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6568

Lai wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

The answer is too easy.  Nothing is more important than World peace, despite that is an utopia.
Doesn't that make it a faith itself?

World peace for any cost regardless of moral values, principles,.. tollerate injustice rather than fight it,.. now that is an easy answer!
Amen Brother!

It's like asking would you give up personal freedoms to ensure security. Most would say hell no fuck security give me my personal freedom. Isn't that bieng selfish also?
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6680|UK

sergeriver wrote:

Anyone answering "My faith", or Religion, or beliefs, or whatever, is being selfish.  The answer is too easy.  Nothing is more important than World peace, despite that is an utopia.  A true believer would renounce God without thinking of it.
What about those that seen Gods work?
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6476
I nominate this theard for the dumbest hypothetical of ever.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6766|Argentina

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

I nominate this theard for the dumbest hypothetical of ever.
Why?  Maybe because you can't accept that your faith is more important to you than the happiness of the rest of the world.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6693|United States of America
I highly doubt that is the belief of all those who voted peace. I think it's more along the lines of "I don't have faith."
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6683|Canberra, AUS

siciliano732 wrote:

stef10 wrote:

hmm, here are the prophesies I think. 6.000 years after the bible was made I heard there will come a new age known as the Messianic age. Some believe it to be in the year 2012 because then it would be the same at the Mayans believe in. Some claim that there have found a code in the Bible claiming something very important will happen in this year. But after the Hebrew calendar we still need approx 200 years. I have also heard about the fake Christ coming from the sky rapped in fire and that he is the anti-Christ and should be rejected. But I heard that when the 2nd coming comes here, the world will just go into a new age. There will not be any Armageddon. This new age will include that Jews will be left alone and there will not be more starvation in the world. Also that the laws of physics will be changed.
i hear ya and i respect your opinion 100%. my question i guess is, what happens to those who do not believe in Christ?  And yes, the Anti Christ should be rejected without a doubt but he will act as Christ (healing, miracles, etc) so people will be fooled and believe he is actually Christ.  This is where the "Mark of the Beast" comes in, and those who take "the mark" will be allowed to buy things and those who do not will be killed.  But those who do take the mark, are basically selling their soul to the devil.  I cannot say if the second coming will be in our time or not but...i do think it will happen eventually...whenever that may be
Urgh.

The story of the Revelation was only meant to apply to the 30, 40 years after it was written - to the Roman Empire especially.

It was never meant to be used by evangelicals 2000 years later as ammunition.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6476

sergeriver wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

I nominate this theard for the dumbest hypothetical of ever.
Why?  Maybe because you can't accept that your faith is more important to you than the happiness of the rest of the world.
No. First off they are not mutually exclusive, you can have a belief in some form of god and there still be peace. Secondly how can one "give up" their faith, does everyone who has religion just suddenly not beleive in God anymore or do they still believe in god but they just lie about it and that would mean that they didn't really give up anything and so under these (completely absurd and ludicrous) circumstances peace would not be achieved as those still beleive so we are back to square one.
belldawg
Serial Jay-Walker
+52|5992|Perth, indian ocean
I don't believe in a religion, so world peace definitely.
specialistx2324
hahahahahhaa
+244|6697|arica harbour
i would have my faith first, to have faith in myself and in a higher power, to contribute to world peace regardless of our differences
Lai
Member
+186|6159

rawls2 wrote:

Lai wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

The answer is too easy.  Nothing is more important than World peace, despite that is an utopia.
Doesn't that make it a faith itself?

World peace for any cost regardless of moral values, principles,.. tollerate injustice rather than fight it,.. now that is an easy answer!
Amen Brother!

It's like asking would you give up personal freedoms to ensure security. Most would say hell no fuck security give me my personal freedom. Isn't that bieng selfish also?
Sorry, but I find that a very narrow definition of faith,..
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6766|Argentina

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

I nominate this theard for the dumbest hypothetical of ever.
Why?  Maybe because you can't accept that your faith is more important to you than the happiness of the rest of the world.
No. First off they are not mutually exclusive, you can have a belief in some form of god and there still be peace. Secondly how can one "give up" their faith, does everyone who has religion just suddenly not beleive in God anymore or do they still believe in god but they just lie about it and that would mean that they didn't really give up anything and so under these (completely absurd and ludicrous) circumstances peace would not be achieved as those still beleive so we are back to square one.
Dude it's a dilemma, don't take it literally, just pick one.  Of course, you can have your faith and peace.  Again, it's just a dilemma no more no less.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard