BF2S Forums Socialized Medicine: a story perspective

Marco! Long time no see!

And back on topic: I've never really had to have anything major done healthcare-wise, but my bro had a hernia for which he had to wait 6months (IIRC) to get the operation done. This was on the NHS. It's not exactly life threatening though, so I can (kinda) understand the wait.

Despite all the whine, the NHS in the UK does very well imo. Yes it squanders huge amounts of money, but making a system as large as the NHS (Europe's single biggest employing body or something like that) efficient is not something that can be done that easily. Waiting lists, at times, can be huge, but usually only for non-urgent cases. But the general case is that people go in to hospital, get what they need and then go back into the community to receive follow-up and rehabilitation. I guess it's a system that Blair hasn't altered too much since the old Conservative days.

Thankfully I've never been to the hospital other than for a checkup, but if I became ill I wouldn't mind going with the NHS rather than going private because I have faith that the system works. 

I haven't seen Sicko yet but if it's a sensationalised as the rest of his stuff I might just stay away... being informed is one thing, but having some extreme and unbalanced angle forced so balantly on me is something I'd take with a pinch of salt.

Hmm, I lack the knowledge of some of the terms I would need here, but I'll give it a try:

Ok, first our system. There's basic insurance(by a government run agency), that your employer must pay or if you are unemployed the government pays it for you(on a local level). You can also pay for it yourself, if you don't like to depend on the government(like me, call me stupid). It covers different percentages of treatment costs. If you have a condition that makes you unable to perform your job, coverage is 100%(at least in theory, don't know how strict they are here as I had no such condition... yet). For other things it varies, and if you have no additional insurance you have to pay the difference. Here's what I was paying a few months ago:

14€ for basic insurance
62€ for 1/4 of a year additional insurance to cover the costs that basic doesn't

I had a non life threatening condition, and had to have an operation in order to be able to apply to a particular job. First place I went to, where they did the first tests, they said waiting time was 2 years(wtf?), and I should check some other hospitals. Went to my, what do you call them, personal physician? Anyway, she advised me who to call, and they said waiting time was 5 months. They put me on a list, and they called me in 2 months(totally ruining my plans by the way).

Op went smoothly, no complications. It was a public hospital, and the nurses and doctors were top notch, glad to answer questions, friendly, so no complications in that department either. Was there only one day. I didn't have additional insurance yet at that time so I had to pay 100€ to cover the difference(basic covered about 85% if I'm not much mistaken). Every additional visit I had to pay about 1€(about five visits in total to see if it was healing properly, then they said that treatment was complete).

Marconius wrote:

This thread will NOT be a debate on the goods and evils of Socialized healthcare

RANT REMOVED BELOW, MAY NOT MAKE ANY SENSE WITHOUT IT:

Great huh? Not for long, as the privatisation of our healthcare system seems to be in full swing. Trying to get your eyes examined? Try again... and again... and again. No joy. The lines are simply too long, the docs can't handle it all(guess why, relates to deleted rant) and you can't even get on the waiting list. Well, you can pay for the examination yourself and you can get in in two days(at least I did, guess where and no they didn't have a contract with the government). Thing is, the cost of the glasses then isn't covered by the insurance either, and you have to pay the full price yourself(over 100€ down the drain. Why do I pay insurance then?).

Dentists come to mind too, although I wouldn't know cos it's been years since I saw one. But my mother had to pay like almost 400€ when she had to have a couple of new teeth made(or something like it). Wating lines at public practitioners(is that the correct term?) were just too long.

Well, I deleted the rant about the evils of privatization when I spotted the quoted passage in the original post so the last part doesn't make a lot of sense, but you can assume there was a lot of anger, assumptions and accusations aimed at the government in general, doctors going private thus extending the lines for us normal citizens...errr, thats a new rant right here. I best quit writing now.

Witty ending goes here >X<.

A couple of years ago my dad had a stroke and was taken to hospital immediately.  He was there for maybe 3-4 weeks and it didn't cost anything and all the meals were free and surprisingly good.  The staff looked after him well and made sure he did his exercises but at a pace that was comfortable.He can't afford private health care so it was a shared room but that wasn't a problem as everyone kept to themselves and had curtains for privacy.

The only slightly negative thing i would mention is that each bed had an entertainment system with email/web/tv/phone and radio which worked on a pay by the hour system and that was getting very expensive.  Oh and the vistors car parking cost a fortune too.

Last edited by crimson_grunt (2007-06-21 15:54:03)

Sorcerer0513, what country are you in?  Unless you are paying 62€ from outer space...

Oh yes, and nice to see everyone again, thanks!

Keep the stories coming!

Australia's system has its failings but it is very good. I can walk in, get a CT scan, xrays, tests all free. I can chose to get private cover (which i get a tax deduction from) but I dont feel i need it.

I can talk to my doctor for 15 mins, have an ECG or ultrasound all for free.

My father was in great pain one day and within 24 hours they had diagnosed and removed Gallstones. NO charge

When my wife has a baby I would like private cover so she can have a private room and a bit of extra care. But thats more cosmetic things.

I also pay a fair amount of tax for it as well but I am happy to do that for the benefit i receive.

BN wrote:

Australia's system has its failings but it is very good. I can walk in, get a CT scan, xrays, tests all free. I can chose to get private cover (which i get a tax deduction from) but I dont feel i need it.

I can talk to my doctor for 15 mins, have an ECG or ultrasound all for free.

My father was in great pain one day and within 24 hours they had diagnosed and removed Gallstones. NO charge

When my wife has a baby I would like private cover so she can have a private room and a bit of extra care. But thats more cosmetic things.

I also pay a fair amount of tax for it as well but I am happy to do that for the benefit i receive.

QFT
However, it should be noted that there are waiting lines in public hospitals if one chooses to use medicare, but if you pay or go into a private hospital you get immediate treatment.

during clinicals i have seen people with festering ulcers forced to wait.

You can :ahem: find that movie online already, dvdrip... I thought it was great.

Check out OneCareNow:



Just taking the current administrative costs (read: private profits) of our health care system, and paying less then the average health insurance, we can have universal one payer health care. Longer video here, if you found it interesting.

Last edited by LawJik (2007-06-21 22:22:36)

Marconius wrote:

Sorcerer0513, what country are you in?  Unless you are paying 62€ from outer space...

Oh yes, and nice to see everyone again, thanks!

Keep the stories coming!

Slovenia. Just went and checked how much the company paid for my insurance now that I am employed. It was about 21€(per month, I still pay the additional insurance myself), and when I checked the ZZZS site, it said it depends on the salary. So if I was a rich guy, I'd have to pay more .

Make no mistake, everything's not perfect. The waiting lists for cancer treatment are scandalous, especially since time matters most there. But they simply don't have enough machines for radiation therapy(and a lot are old). It seems as soon as they put out a tender an a company is selected to supply them, everybody else appeals and the process has to start again. It was the same with operating tables, but the government made a new law that makes it possible to override the appeals in case of emergency so they got some crappy tables now.

But maybe I'm just overly pessimistic or influenced by the media too much. So take my posts with a grain of salt.

Hi Guys - Some food for thought!!!  Australia

My other half is an Emergency Nurse (ER) at one of the busiest PUBLIC (Government Funded) Hospitals in Vic, Australia.

The public system is currently very good in Australia but is on a very very dramatic downhill slide.


Public hospitals that we pay through our taxes are at breaking point. And those with Health Insurance aren't that much better off at the moment.

*Common Waiting times in Emergency/Triage of public hospitals can be 10+ hours! 

And the current Government is pushing to go the way of America! Yes that is right!


Public Hospitals (only) are also fined if they do not follow exactly what  the Government wants.

An Example of one fine: the government will fine a public hospital approx $100,000 per hour if they cannot accept incoming patients
i.e. if they are FULL or too busy
At the same time Ratios have increased from 1 nurse to 4 patients to figures such as 1 nurse to 8/16 patients(depending on area). The public hospitals are getting dramatically busier because of this, expect long stays and waits! To enhance the chaos, the Australian Government is slowly removing beds from public hospitals and closing down departments to try and improve efficiency, placing even more demand!

They are taking away more money and more resources from the public sector and are now putting more financial support to the private sector.

ALTHOUGH, Public hospitals do have doctors on overnight!!!
In NEARLY ALL  private hospital's that you pay a premium for through Insurance or up front, at night your doctors will be fast asleep at home after their busy day of golf!!!
If there is an emergency someone needs to be called in!!!  Does that make you feel safe???


My father was also very recently in hospital, although he has private insurance, he could also not get a bed in a private hospital for two whole weeks!
Why? Because there was no beds available in any Private Hospitals only in Public Hospital's with their diminishing budgets and lengthy waiting times !

Last edited by barry666666 (2007-06-22 04:18:20)

Belgium being a small country, the system works pretty well and our last minister of health even managed to improve it.

I can speak for France as I know their system also. Thanks to the last government that closes beds, hospitals, fires workers (people that aren't in the medical field but are necessary for a hospital to work properly) and passes laws that will benefit the rich and the privates hospitals. The French system is said to be one of the best in the world as far as social security is concerned but it's heading downhill pretty fast and the Sarkozy government dreams about privatizing hospitals.

Flecco wrote:

Lost Hope wrote:

Belgium being a small country, the system works pretty well and our last minister of health even managed to improve it.

I can speak for France as I know their system also. Thanks to the last government that closes beds, hospitals, fires workers (people that aren't in the medical field but are necessary for a hospital to work properly) and passes laws that will benefit the rich and the privates hospitals. The French system is said to be one of the best in the world as far as social security is concerned but it's heading downhill pretty fast and the Sarkozy government dreams about privatizing hospitals.

Sounds like Australia. The France part I mean.

I saw that you used the term "liberal" concerning Howard, I presume it is in the economic way, as France. Liberal as "Let's privatize everything,yay !1!!"

The last government of France  managed to sell the roads and wanted to privatize EDF/GDF (French state gas and electricity provider). They both were in benefits and proposed decent prices.