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2007-05-26 06:14:48
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7030|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

IG-Calibre wrote:

One victim was found to have a bullet pass through one underarm and out the other ...he had his arms in the air.
Aye, probably waving a White handkerchief in the air - there is no evidence to support the claim that any civilian was firing a rifle, & also the question surrounding the legitimacy of the 4 "nail Bombs"
I have a book at home called Bloody Sunday Lord Widgery's report 1972. The chap l think your on about when examined had lead deposits on his scarf and hands, which indicates he had used a fire arm.
Had a flick through the book and it says of the deceased

5 had no evidence of having used fire arms or nail bombs, but some had been near others that had
8 Had evidence of using fire arms or throwing nail bombs

It also mentions one of the dead was found with 4 nail bombs in his clothing and that one of the injured was hit by a low-velocity round fired wildly by a civie.

I can't in an instance belive that Soldiers just open fire for fits and giggles. I belive they were provoked into firing, granted it maybe over the top l will admit that and innocents people died, but heres a quote from the book.
"There would have been no deaths in Londonderry on 30th of January if those who organised the illegal march had not thereby created a highly dangerous situation in which a clash between demonstrators and the security forces was almost inevitable."

At the end of the day the terrorists that committed the bombings and killing of  British soldiers, RUC officers and Civilians are all free.
I belive that the IRA and other groups such as the LUF, UVF, CIRA, PIRA, RIRA and the such are terrorists and not freedom fighters, maybe years ago the IRA could have been classed as freedom fighters, but now ,no. As soon as you start killing Innocent civilian by executing and bombings and doing illegal activities such as drug dealing, extortion and the such are terrorists and nothing more!

Last edited by The_Guardsman (2007-05-26 06:16:12)

2007-05-26 06:27:29
JahManRed
wank
+646|6913|IRELAND

The Pars on Bloody sunday, executed ppl who were rioting. Throwing stones and blocks doesn't justify being shot.
Bloody Sunday is something I bury in the back of my mind and try and forget. Like everyone here on both sides, we have to forgive and forget and move on.
2007-05-26 06:32:43
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

The_Guardsman wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

One victim was found to have a bullet pass through one underarm and out the other ...he had his arms in the air.
Aye, probably waving a White handkerchief in the air - there is no evidence to support the claim that any civilian was firing a rifle, & also the question surrounding the legitimacy of the 4 "nail Bombs"
I have a book at home called Bloody Sunday Lord Widgery's report 1972. The chap l think your on about when examined had lead deposits on his scarf and hands, which indicates he had used a fire arm.
Had a flick through the book and it says of the deceased

5 had no evidence of having used fire arms or nail bombs, but some had been near others that had
8 Had evidence of using fire arms or throwing nail bombs

It also mentions one of the dead was found with 4 nail bombs in his clothing and that one of the injured was hit by a low-velocity round fired wildly by a civie.

I can't in an instance belive that Soldiers just open fire for fits and giggles. I belive they were provoked into firing, granted it maybe over the top l will admit that and innocents people died, but heres a quote from the book.
"There would have been no deaths in Londonderry on 30th of January if those who organised the illegal march had not thereby created a highly dangerous situation in which a clash between demonstrators and the security forces was almost inevitable."

At the end of the day the terrorists that committed the bombings and killing of  British soldiers, RUC officers and Civilians are all free.
I belive that the IRA and other groups such as the LUF, UVF, CIRA, PIRA, RIRA and the such are terrorists and not freedom fighters, maybe years ago the IRA could have been classed as freedom fighters, but now ,no. As soon as you start killing Innocent civilian by executing and bombings and doing illegal activities such as drug dealing, extortion and the such are terrorists and nothing more!
Oh please, Widgerys enquiry was nothing short of a complete whitewash..

British massacres of unarmed civilians are well recorded - like Croke Park

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croke_Park

Amritsar Massacre - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_Massacre

Derry was no different..

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-05-26 06:36:27)

2007-05-26 07:12:07
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

JahManRed wrote:

The Pars on Bloody sunday, executed ppl who were rioting. Throwing stones and blocks doesn't justify being shot.
Bloody Sunday is something I bury in the back of my mind and try and forget. Like everyone here on both sides, we have to forgive and forget and move on.
Or the time they murdered a 12 year old child with a machine gun & tore her stomach out for fucks sakes..

Then he heard a bang and saw a child fall. He ran towards them and found his little girl dying. Majella was the darling of her parents’ heart. She had been born some years after the other members of the family, Michael, Anne, Marie and Margarita. She was the love of their home. While comforting the child he was badly abused by some of the Paratroopers.
When the gun was fired there was a lot of confusion on the road. The children were screaming. The soldiers were shouting. One of the Paratroopers ran down the road. Another soldier, a Marine, came out of the bushes near where the child lay. The Reaveys and Alice Campbell took cover with the rest.
The official line?  she was caught in a crossfire, yet all witnesses say there were no other shots fired.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/other/1976/murray76a.htm

Or was it for " for fits and giggles " the British soldier who made me lie face down on the ground as an 11 year old child while he stuck his gun in the nape of my neck and cocked his weapon and threatened to shoot me? and the man who had his ribs broken by the butts of their SLR's, by his squad mates when he challenged him over what  he was doing? I seem to remember them having a good laugh about it..

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-05-26 07:39:25)

2007-05-26 08:12:22
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7030|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

JahManRed wrote:

The Pars on Bloody Sunday, executed ppl who were rioting. Throwing stones and blocks .
How many time do l have to say it... The paras did'nt execute people. They were provoked into firing. I even pointed out that one body was found with Nail bombs and one of the injured was shot by a low velocity round fired from a revolver which came from the crowd. If they were just throwing rocks and blocks then yer maybe l'd agree with you, but even rocks and blocks can injure and kill. I had a mate that was knocked out by a paving slab thrown at him by rioters. I also have been shot at, set on fire and almost hit by a few pipe bombs thrown by both sides whilst out there.

I'll also say this again. The terrorists of the IRA and other groups are free, the ones that executed people and planted bombs that killed and injured people are all free. So why can't this lot be left alone, or is it one rule for one and one rule for another?

Yep well done IG for bringing up our passed. I will admit its far from our finest hours. How ever alot of country's history is full of things like that.

Any way back to the topic of conversation. Yep the IRA were terrorists and good ones at that. Maybe years ago you could, as someone has mentioned, called them freedom fighters. But in the days modern troubles the fact that they started executing Protestants, drug dealing and other organised crime they became terrorists.
2007-05-26 09:05:17
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

The_Guardsman wrote:

I'll also say this again. The terrorists of the IRA and other groups are free, the ones that executed people and planted bombs that killed and injured people are all free. So why can't this lot be left alone, or is it one rule for one and one rule for another?

Yep well done IG for bringing up our passed. I will admit its far from our finest hours. How ever alot of country's history is full of things like that.
Even though they are free, they have been held accountable for their actions unlike the majority of those British agents / "security forces", who never have, but, instead have been celebrated and decorated for their actions.  That's the difference.  So you'll forgive me,  I expect the State to protect it's citizens rather then have it's security forces / Agents kill & murder them indiscriminately, call me old fashioned that way..
2007-05-26 09:45:15
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7030|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

IG-Calibre wrote:

The_Guardsman wrote:

I'll also say this again. The terrorists of the IRA and other groups are free, the ones that executed people and planted bombs that killed and injured people are all free. So why can't this lot be left alone, or is it one rule for one and one rule for another?

Yep well done IG for bringing up our passed. I will admit its far from our finest hours. How ever alot of country's history is full of things like that.
Even though they are free, they have been held accountable for their actions unlike the majority of those British agents / "security forces", who never have, but, instead have been celebrated and decorated for their actions.  That's the difference.  So you'll forgive me,  I expect the State to protect it's citizens rather then have it's security forces / Agents kill & murder them indiscriminately, call me old fashioned that way..
Any chance you can elaborate on the celebrated and decorations part? Any how some of the things the IRA had done people celebrate, or is this statement false?
Not all have been held accountable for their past mate. Also would you be happy with some of the deeds they have done?
I'd like to point out a soldier that did time after he shot at a car that drove through a road block in Ireland. Can't remmeber his name. He was a Para though.
2007-05-26 10:01:35
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

The_Guardsman wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

The_Guardsman wrote:

I'll also say this again. The terrorists of the IRA and other groups are free, the ones that executed people and planted bombs that killed and injured people are all free. So why can't this lot be left alone, or is it one rule for one and one rule for another?

Yep well done IG for bringing up our passed. I will admit its far from our finest hours. How ever alot of country's history is full of things like that.
Even though they are free, they have been held accountable for their actions unlike the majority of those British agents / "security forces", who never have, but, instead have been celebrated and decorated for their actions.  That's the difference.  So you'll forgive me,  I expect the State to protect it's citizens rather then have it's security forces / Agents kill & murder them indiscriminately, call me old fashioned that way..
Any chance you can elaborate on the celebrated and decorations part? Any how some of the things the IRA had done people celebrate, or is this statement false?
Not all have been held accountable for their past mate. Also would you be happy with some of the deeds they have done?
I'd like to point out a soldier that did time after he shot at a car that drove through a road block in Ireland. Can't remmeber his name. He was a Para though.
All the heads of Special Branch that are now, Sirs & KB this, OBE that, or Lieutenant Colonel Derek Wilford responsible for Bloody Sunday who was in 1973 named to the Queen's "Honours List," and given a knighthood.. etc.. etc.. As for Clegg  he had his conviction overturned..

It is such a simple piece of distortion. We hear the words "Bloody Sunday" on the news and up pops that footage of rioting youths. The viewer is led to conclude either that soldiers fired in self-defence or that they panicked in the confusion. The second interpretation is over-generous in this instance but it is the more plausible. Clearly soldiers are wound up before going into combat. Indeed, a paratrooper known to the Saville inquiry as Soldier 027, states that, in a briefing the night before, the men from the anti-tank platoon who went berserk on Bloody Sunday, were ordered to "get some kills". Moreover, an interesting new book by Ally Renwick called Hidden Wounds explores the damage that can be done to people's minds by military service and details how a number end up in jail for violent crimes.


However, if you believe that military service does young men a power of good, it is es sential that you believe that soldiers are paragons of self-control, at least when on duty. No one is particularly surprised if an off-duty soldier rapes or murders, because out of uniform they are not representing queen or country and so can be said only to have brought discredit to themselves.
But when uniformed soldiers open up on unarmed civilians, one can expect decades in which army officers, politicians and newspapers do their best to suppress the truth. The new findings which clear Bloody Sunday victims of handling weapons must have rattled the Telegraph so much that it was felt best to ignore them. The Mail rallied to the Paras, although the only coherent objection it could make was that the Saville inquiry is still sitting and it is wrong for the Paras to have to face the truth in dribs and drabs.

And yet the findings, while new, are not unprecedented. A scientist called Dr Krishnan discounted the evidence of Dr John Martin in 1972, in a paper challenging the findings of Lord Widgery. He accused Martin of using chemicals which had been out of favour since the 50s. Dr JBF Lloyd now says Martin's findings were worthless, pointing out that lead found on the bodies could have come from various sources, including the very bullets that killed them and the fact that the bodies were handled by soldiers.

The army, despite claims to have been answering fire and shooting at bombers, never produced any recovered bullets or captured weaponry, except in the case of 17-year-old Gerard Donaghy, whom they said was carrying nail bombs. His family have always said that the bombs were planted on his body. Now medical reports show that one of the bombs, if it had been in his pocket as alleged, would have been hit by the bullet that killed him.

The Mail's claims that acid bombs were thrown at soldiers stand in contrast to the fact that no soldiers were treated for acid burns that day. Rioting indeed happened. The items thrown were a number of rocks and bottles and one CS cannister which had been fired by the army the day before and had failed to go off. There were no petrol bombs. Moreover, at the time of the shootings, the trouble had mostly died down and demonstrators were making their way to a rally as troops swept through the area.

One can often be deceived that soldiers have killed because they panicked. Consider the misinformation about the shooting of joy- riders Karen Reilly and Martin Peake in 1990. Acres of comment attempting to vindicate Private Clegg, who to this day stands convicted of wounding Peake with intent and still serves in the army, described the car driving through a checkpoint. Soldiers are in any case only meant to fire in self-defence but the scene portrayed appears a lot more dramatic than the reality of a car driving past a foot patrol.

Then we had the shooting of Peter McBride by the Scots Guards Wright and Fisher in 1992. The great and good - well, Martin Bell and Ludovic Kennedy - have told us the soldiers had feared that McBride was going to throw a coffee-jar bomb at them. Even the judge at trial found this preposterous, given that the patrol had searched the vic tim moments before he was shot.

Today, Wright and Fisher are serving in Kosovo under the overall command of General Sir Michael Jackson. Jackson was the adjutant on duty on Bloody Sunday. His version of events, given in an interview in 1990, is that he didn't see anything but he is sure his soldiers wouldn't have acted in the way alleged.

But all the emerging evidence suggests that everything the families have said for 27 years is true. People were shot at close range, some lying on the ground. Some were shot by army snipers on the city walls. The bullet that destroyed Barnie McGuigan's brain disintegrated into 42 fragments, which strongly suggests it was an illegal dumdum.

Perhaps these facts will demoralise the army and give comfort to republicans. Well, tough. Truth is the first casualty of war, but sometimes it survives.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story … 48,00.html

I'm not denying that hardline Republicans would have celebrated what the IRA did, but the IRA was not the government, it wasn't the state, we were not their citizens, can you not tell the difference? & No I wouldn't celebrate the actions of the IRA i'm not an IRA supporter - just because you' re a Catholic and a Nationalist  doesn't mean you're a supporter of the IRA..

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-05-26 10:29:36)

2007-05-26 10:09:14
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7052|UK

Braddock wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

The_Guardsman wrote:

There was weapon fire from the crowd. No ifs, no buts there was weapons fire. Granted the return fire was over the top yes. But the Paras say that each round was aimed at someone throwing/about to throw a pipe bomb or holding and firing a rifle. Notice the thirteen people that were killed that day were men and all the injured bar one were men as well, so l belive they did'nt just "spray and prey".  War crimes l belive not and also what about the untold number of terrorists that have been released or not been tried for thier crimes, like Martin McGuniess or the ones responsible for the Omagh bomb (real IRA), do you think thats fair they did'nt get tried or serve out there sentence?
Maybe the IRA did fire a shot or maybe they didn't, I doubt if we will ever know, One thing is certain though, the 14 Civilians / 6 of who were little more than children (god rest their souls) that your comrades killed were unarmed civilians, and, most were shot in the back. You seem to forget also that  a woman was shot though thankfully she didn't die from her injuries.
One victim was found to have a bullet pass through one underarm and out the other ...he had his arms in the air.
Mid way through throwing a petrol bomb most likely.
2007-05-26 10:12:48
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

Vilham wrote:

Braddock wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:


Maybe the IRA did fire a shot or maybe they didn't, I doubt if we will ever know, One thing is certain though, the 14 Civilians / 6 of who were little more than children (god rest their souls) that your comrades killed were unarmed civilians, and, most were shot in the back. You seem to forget also that  a woman was shot though thankfully she didn't die from her injuries.
One victim was found to have a bullet pass through one underarm and out the other ...he had his arms in the air.
Mid way through throwing a petrol bomb most likely.
There were no Petrol bombs..
2007-05-26 10:21:45
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6785|so randum

Vilham wrote:

Braddock wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:


Maybe the IRA did fire a shot or maybe they didn't, I doubt if we will ever know, One thing is certain though, the 14 Civilians / 6 of who were little more than children (god rest their souls) that your comrades killed were unarmed civilians, and, most were shot in the back. You seem to forget also that  a woman was shot though thankfully she didn't die from her injuries.
One victim was found to have a bullet pass through one underarm and out the other ...he had his arms in the air.
Mid way through throwing a petrol bomb most likely.
Such an ignorant response. read something about the situation, before you post idiotic sterotypical comments on it
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2007-05-26 10:42:03
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

fatherted13 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Braddock wrote:


One victim was found to have a bullet pass through one underarm and out the other ...he had his arms in the air.
Mid way through throwing a petrol bomb most likely.
Such an ignorant response. read something about the situation, before you post idiotic sterotypical comments on it
haha, don't worry about Villham man, the cock  from his forhead extends Pinocchio stylee with each of his posts on these subjects, so-much-so, it now must be trailing on the floor behind him..
2007-05-26 12:47:52
Toxicseagull
Member
+10|6531|York
The british army were fighting terrorists (yes they were. the title of "freedom fighter" is based on opinion. as Poe has said, after a certain stage the IRA evolved from that to nothing more than thugs, i choose not to designate them freedom fighters.)
like any guerilla situation innocents will be killed. this is the nature of Guerilla and terrorist activitys. the "blending in" carrys consequences for those around them.

whilst this doesnt dismiss any incidents it certainly puts them in perspective. both sides killed. one side premeditated the targeting of civilians as well as soldiers (bombings throughout two countrys). What every you can say, the british army never went on a mission to kill innocent people. they reacted to a situation infront of them when pressed, sometimes this kills innocents.

This in my opinion is alot different to targeting officials of a nation, civilians that were perceived to help them or live in a certain area. it is different to trying to assassinate the leader of a nation. and planting bombs in the street of that nation to create panic - a key component in "terrorism".
2007-05-26 13:19:21
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7052|UK

fatherted13 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Braddock wrote:


One victim was found to have a bullet pass through one underarm and out the other ...he had his arms in the air.
Mid way through throwing a petrol bomb most likely.
Such an ignorant response. read something about the situation, before you post idiotic sterotypical comments on it
What you mean like the fact that nail bombs were found on one of the people shot. I have read everything on, you cretin.

As to IG, nail bomb, petrol bomb, pretty similar!
2007-05-26 13:40:51
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6785|so randum

Vilham wrote:

fatherted13 wrote:

Vilham wrote:


Mid way through throwing a petrol bomb most likely.
Such an ignorant response. read something about the situation, before you post idiotic sterotypical comments on it
What you mean like the fact that nail bombs were found on one of the people shot. I have read everything on, you cretin.

As to IG, nail bomb, petrol bomb, pretty similar!
One, nail bomb has shrapnel, petrol bomb has, wait for it, petrol. Different, yes?
Two, as posted before, it has been recently observed that one of the nail bombs, would have been covering a entry wound, therefore the nail bomb came after he was shot, suspicious, no?
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2007-05-26 13:41:54
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

Vilham wrote:

fatherted13 wrote:

Vilham wrote:


Mid way through throwing a petrol bomb most likely.
Such an ignorant response. read something about the situation, before you post idiotic sterotypical comments on it
What you mean like the fact that nail bombs were found on one of the people shot. I have read everything on, you cretin.

As to IG, nail bomb, petrol bomb, pretty similar!
There is a difference between throwing a nail bomb & having one in his pocket as alleged by the British - which has been disproved
His family have always said that the bombs were planted on his body. Now medical reports show that one of the bombs, if it had been in his pocket as alleged, would have been hit by the bullet that killed him.
The end of the day 14 innocent unarmed civilians were killed that day, FACT - the Widgery white wash has been thoroughly disproved by what has come to light so far in the Savile enquiry and has been rendered obsolete. Infact it is so politically damning to the British, the judgement has been postponed indefinitely. So too keep trying to use it as vindication for the actions is pointless.  The only question left unanswered is did the IRA fire a shot.
2007-05-26 16:06:54
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7030|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark
Ok here  we go again. 13 people were killed 8 had evidence of lead on the web of their hands indicating that they had fired a weapon. If you be live the rioters had no weapons on them during that riot, then your head is firmly up your arse. One civilian was injured by a LOW VELOCITY ROUND FIRED FROM A REVOLVER WHICH CAME FROM THE CROWED AND NOT FROM THE PARAS!! Big hint that the rioters had fire arms,

IG-Calibre wrote:

The end of the day 14 innocent unarmed civilians were killed that day, FACT
They were'nt all Innocent, explain why over half of them had lead deposit on the web of thier arms??

You mentioned in another post that a Brit soldier had been rather over handed with you GI. I can see why your fucked off with this and l don't blame you. How ever take it from their point of view and mine. My first riot l got involved with l remember the silence in the wagon going to it, l remember looking at the faces of my collages and seeing them stare into space. I had not butterflies but bloody hugh vulchers flying in my stomach. l also remember that a bloke from another regiment on the last tour almost bled to death because he was hit by shrapnel from a pipe bomb. When l got there, there was a lot of teenagers throwing fire works, stones, paint, excrement and acid bombs. I remember being hit on my foot by a rock and all l could thing was come closer you sod and stand by. A bloke 2 down from me got knocked out by a fire work another bloke got part of his face brunt by an acid bomb. So after all this and may more riots do you think l would be over joyed with the Irish? Would you if roles reveresed?
How ever after a couple of weeks l realised that the problems in Ireland only stemped from a small minority of the population. I talked to one bloke who was sorting out some cables in the road on a check point and he looked at a barrier and saw some holes, he asked if l might know what they were. I said yes and that they were bullet holes and that we were the targets. He look at me shocked and could not believe it happened.

Lee Clegg did a prison sentence and was let out... Along with the terrorist that caused numerous damage. So live with it. I had to watch my dad as a kid check his car every morning for IEDs... He never served in Ireland, yet still it effected him. But remember the soldiers don't chose to serve there, the government sends them!

IG-Calibre wrote:

All the heads of Special Branch that are now, Sirs & KB this, OBE that, or Lieutenant Colonel Derek Wilford responsible for Bloody Sunday who was in 1973 named to the Queen's "Honours List," and given a knighthood.. etc.. etc.. As for Clegg  he had his conviction overturned..
Colonel Derek Wilfords l don't even think was on the ground that day and no doubt got the award for other action, NOT the actions of his troops . 
Can you give an example of any member of the Special Branch/ Security forces/ British Army that got an award out of something like bloody Sunday? Because l can't!

The thread has gone off course and It was to discuss wether the IRA were terrorists and the short answear is yes, end off!

Last edited by The_Guardsman (2007-05-26 16:26:50)

2007-05-26 16:24:32
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
Do you even bother to read my replies? if you did you wouldn't post "They were'nt all Innocent, explain why over half of them had lead deposit on the web of thier arms??" I'll say it again, as has already be proven at the savile enquirey

Dr Krishnan discounted the evidence of Dr John Martin in 1972, in a paper challenging the findings of Lord Widgery. He accused Martin of using chemicals which had been out of favour since the 50s. Dr JBF Lloyd now says Martin's findings were worthless, pointing out that lead found on the bodies could have come from various sources, including the very bullets that killed them and the fact that the bodies were handled by soldiers.

The army, despite claims to have been answering fire and shooting at bombers, never produced any recovered bullets or captured weaponry, except in the case of 17-year-old Gerard Donaghy, whom they said was carrying nail bombs. His family have always said that the bombs were planted on his body. Now medical reports show that one of the bombs, if it had been in his pocket as alleged, would have been hit by the bullet that killed him.
As I have said Widgery has been thoroughly discredited by Savile, it's pointless referring to it. 14 innocent people where killed 27 were shot,  there is no credible evidence to prove otherwise.  All i'm interested in is the truth, that's it.  I'm sure you were well trained to "deal" with riots, probably got it along with your training on "how to spit" on a persons driving licence, before handing it back to them at a vehicle checkpoint class..
2007-05-26 16:43:17
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7030|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

IG-Calibre wrote:

Do you even bother to read my replies? if you did you wouldn't post "They were'nt all Innocent, explain why over half of them had lead deposit on the web of their arms??" I'll say it again, as has already be proven at the savile enquirey


As I have said Widgery has been thoroughly discredited by Savile, it's pointless referring to it. 14 innocent people where killed 27 were shot,  there is no credible evidence to prove otherwise.  All I'm interested in is the truth, that's it.  I'm sure you were well trained to "deal" with riots, probably got it along with your training on "how to spit" on a persons driving licence, before handing it back to them at a vehicle checkpoint class..
Quick response. Can you give me a link to this savile enquirey, please mate?
Did'nt check any ones driving licence to spit on and saying that l would do so makes me unprofessional (To which l know l was very much so through my career) and makes me look a cunt and is damn old sporting old boy! I have not insulted your good self so please don't insult me. Like l said it was a small minority of people that wanted to do me damage. Mind you I served in the 00 not the 70s, 80s or early 90s were soldiers died at the hand of terrorists. I was trained to the best with how to deal with rioters... After 30 years the Army learns alot.
I'll say it again would you if the roles were reversed be happy with people that had tried to kill you?

Maybe the civilians that day were Innocent but can you explain why Mr Alexander Nash was wounded by a low velocity round fired from a revolver that came from the crowed? I'm not being funny but that to me indicates that the riot eithen though illegal was peaceful. Unfortunately the truth of the incident will not come to light in my opinion the people of that day say no rounds came from the rioters when evidence has proven other wise. Ethien if paraffin test are old hat. Mr Nash being shot by a low velocity round should be evidence enough to indicate there were dodgy people there.

Last edited by The_Guardsman (2007-05-26 16:52:17)

2007-05-26 17:44:32
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6576|Éire

The_Guardsman wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

Do you even bother to read my replies? if you did you wouldn't post "They were'nt all Innocent, explain why over half of them had lead deposit on the web of their arms??" I'll say it again, as has already be proven at the savile enquirey


As I have said Widgery has been thoroughly discredited by Savile, it's pointless referring to it. 14 innocent people where killed 27 were shot,  there is no credible evidence to prove otherwise.  All I'm interested in is the truth, that's it.  I'm sure you were well trained to "deal" with riots, probably got it along with your training on "how to spit" on a persons driving licence, before handing it back to them at a vehicle checkpoint class..
Quick response. Can you give me a link to this savile enquirey, please mate?
Did'nt check any ones driving licence to spit on and saying that l would do so makes me unprofessional (To which l know l was very much so through my career) and makes me look a cunt and is damn old sporting old boy! I have not insulted your good self so please don't insult me. Like l said it was a small minority of people that wanted to do me damage. Mind you I served in the 00 not the 70s, 80s or early 90s were soldiers died at the hand of terrorists. I was trained to the best with how to deal with rioters... After 30 years the Army learns alot.
I'll say it again would you if the roles were reversed be happy with people that had tried to kill you?

Maybe the civilians that day were Innocent but can you explain why Mr Alexander Nash was wounded by a low velocity round fired from a revolver that came from the crowed? I'm not being funny but that to me indicates that the riot eithen though illegal was peaceful. Unfortunately the truth of the incident will not come to light in my opinion the people of that day say no rounds came from the rioters when evidence has proven other wise. Ethien if paraffin test are old hat. Mr Nash being shot by a low velocity round should be evidence enough to indicate there were dodgy people there.
http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/
2007-05-26 18:08:56
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7030|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

Braddock wrote:

http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/
Gleaming cheers mate.
Had a quick flick throughand a couple of things.
1) The Inquiry started in 1998 do you think its abit late to examine the bodys of those shot. OK the test carried out at the time are old school. But if they had the kit we have now, would there be a different story of they all had weapons?
2) New evidence from Witness at the scene. its along time since the event so alot of statements may be flawed
3) The report has'nt been finished yet, so really we should wait out untill its published before we start this arguement.
4) The thread is all about wether you think the IRA are terrorist. Can any of you say hand on heart, knowing what they've done that they are'nt?
2007-05-27 03:59:43
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

The_Guardsman wrote:

Braddock wrote:

http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/
Gleaming cheers mate.
Had a quick flick throughand a couple of things.
1) The Inquiry started in 1998 do you think its abit late to examine the bodys of those shot. OK the test carried out at the time are old school. But if they had the kit we have now, would there be a different story of they all had weapons?
2) New evidence from Witness at the scene. its along time since the event so alot of statements may be flawed
3) The report has'nt been finished yet, so really we should wait out untill its published before we start this arguement.
4) The thread is all about wether you think the IRA are terrorist. Can any of you say hand on heart, knowing what they've done that they are'nt?
Statement by Tony Blair - 29 January 1998
House of Commons Official Report
Parliamentary Debates (Hansard)

In 1992, the then Prime Minister said in a letter to the Hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume), who has campaigned tirelessly on the issue, that those shot should be regarded as innocent of any allegation that they were shot while handling firearms or explosives. I reaffirm that today.
So there are no if's, and's, or but's, about it, they massacred innocent people in Derry on Bloody Sunday, murdered 14 - Shot 27 so remind me again who were the terrorists? Show me exactly where's the justice?
2007-05-27 05:12:06
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7030|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

IG-Calibre wrote:

So there are no if's, and's, or but's, about it, they massacred innocent people in Derry on Bloody Sunday, murdered 14 - Shot 27 so remind me again who were the terrorists? Show me exactly where's the justice?
They were'nt Innocent the march was illegal. I still belive that the Paras were provoked into firing by something or someone. The bloke who was shot by a low velocity round is a big hint that someone in the crowd had a fire arm. I think the investigation into it was done by the Prime minister to try and get the peace agreement going.  I also belive that yes the investigation into the incident after was flawed.
But the eye witness statements of the new investigation l belive would be flawed any how. The Paras all say that something happened and all the marchers shot funnily enough say nothing happened. I think that would be highly flawed don't you?

Any way this has gone off the threads topic of conversation.
Would you agree, not including the incidents mentioned, IG that the IRA are terrorists?
2007-05-27 05:34:54
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7028|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
The fact of the matter is - it's all well and good calling the IRA terrorists ,and, I agree by the way.  The fact remains that before the Aldershot Bombing, not even mentioning the unprovoked Loyalist Paramilitary sectarian killings, the British security forces had

Murdered 14 innocent civilians, wounding 13 others on Bloody Sunday, Shot dead 2 unarmed Catholic women at a checkpoint in Belfast, shot dead a disabled Catholic man in Strabane. (no corroborating independent info to support Army claims on the murders, but much disputing them)  They were wrecking Catholic homes and dragging the men folk off to prison camps for the crime of being Catholic. Tell me is it standard Army training to urinate on the food of families who barely have the money to feed themselves, as you wreck their houses looking for arms? the British Government ruthlessly suppressed their Catholic citizens and the following 30 years bloodshed was the response.

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-05-27 05:58:52)

2007-05-27 06:16:00
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7030|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark
Most of what you mentioned was before my time and WHEN l did my training l was'nt taught all that. Not being funny mate, but alot of people join the Army to make good mates, get paid, they cant find work else where and do adventure training. Not go to another place to be treated like shit by the locals. Would you if the roles were reversed be all happy and smiley?
Glad you do think that the IRA are terrorists. I can see that you had a bad time at the hand of the British Army and can see why your not overly joyed with them, but remember we're not all like that and l tried to be friendly to people over there. Some said hello, others just spat at me and tried to kill me.

 

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