BF2S Forums The Role of the nade launcher according to DICE

RKF77 wrote:

Krappyappy wrote:

RKF77 wrote:

The main argument I see here is, overwhelmingly, that you can literally fire it at your feet in CQB and get the kill, then run off to do it again.

uh, i hope by 'literally' you meant 'not literally' because firing a GL at your feet is a sure way to kill yourself.

No, I meant literally.  As mort4u stated, if you jump as you fire it, you can fire it straight down and kill whoever's in front of you, but not yourself.  Even without jumping, you can fire it a couple meters in front of you and get the kill and live, too.

this is exactly the sort of ignorant moaning that causes me to discredit all complaints about the GLs completely. it is impossible to fire the GL straight down and live, whether you jump or not. anyone who says otherwise has obviously not actually tested it himself.

again, the ability to jump, fire a grenade straight down, and live, is a COMPLETE MYTH. the grenade's blast radius is much greater than your jump height. try it yourself and prove me wrong.

this further makes me believe that the only reason people complain about the GLs is the fact that they suck and can't deal with being killed by it.

Krappyappy wrote:

this is exactly the sort of ignorant moaning that causes me to discredit all complaints about the GLs completely. it is impossible to fire the GL straight down and live, whether you jump or not. anyone who says otherwise has obviously not actually tested it himself.

Actually, I have tested it, and I see it every night I play Karkand, ad nausuem.  Anyone who disputes it either hasn't played the game, or is just whining about the possibility of their favorite exploit being taken away.  Which one are you?

Krappyappy wrote:

this further makes me believe that the only reason people complain about the GLs is the fact that they suck and can't deal with being killed by it.

This is a shame.  You did so well for a while in having a civilized discussion without resorting to the favored argument of immature gamers everywhere.  Nice job in completely invalidating everything you've said by going to the "you must suck" argument.

PLEASE, tell me what would be SO HORRIBLE about implmenting a minimum distance-to-arm fuse.  Explain to me how that would detract from gameplay...how will it ruin anything?  What would be SO BAD about not being able to use the grenade launchers from 3 meters away?  You've started with the insults, but you're sidestepping that argument for some unknown reason.  Say DICE makes the grenade launchers so they're exactly as they are now, with the exception of a 20-meter distance to arm fuse.   This is all I'm arguing for...what would be SO horrible about that?

Last edited by RKF77 (2005-12-23 10:13:00)

RKF77 wrote:

PLEASE, tell me what would be SO HORRIBLE about implmenting a minimum distance-to-arm fuse.  Explain to me how that would detract from gameplay...how will it ruin anything?  What would be SO BAD about not being able to use the grenade launchers from 3 meters away?  You've started with the insults, but you're sidestepping that argument for some unknown reason.  Say DICE makes the grenade launchers so they're exactly as they are now, with the exception of a 20-meter distance to arm fuse.   This is all I'm arguing for...what would be SO horrible about that?

Before I say my piece against the min distance (and you can look at my stats... I don't use the GL), I would like to say I agree that the splash damage must cover the person jumping and shooting at their feet. This is just moronic, and I would expect that from something like Halo, not BF2.

So the minimum distance issue: what if you have a room around the corner, that you know has 3 people in it, waiting for someone to walk through the door (Take the TV station on Sharqi as the example). In all instances, if you know that there is enemy in the next room, you would use the best tools you have available to you... whether it be flashbangs, grenades, tear gas (note that two of these are SF tools), or if your assault, you would use the launcher at the wall, planning on the riccocet effect to clear the room.

This is in the spirit of the game; is it not?

I have died so many times from the noob tube, that I have a hate for the tool as well, but only because of how it is used... the repair only repair I see to this would be to:
a) reduce the ability to jump and fire at your feet (who jumps and prones on a battlefield anyway???))
b) increase the self damage cost for firing a M203 within the explosive range
c) call the exploit a cheat, and strip the ranking of anyone who has suspicious skill with ONLY that weapon (this is what they are using the thing for, so take away the incentive)

That was about a dollar more than my two cents...

Last edited by SunTzu (2005-12-23 10:54:56)

Krappyappy wrote:

i'm not going to continue in a civilised manner when people start spewing things that aren't true. i work as a statistical psychologist, and as a scientist, i do not tolerate people who don't find things out for themselves rather than accepting whatever other people say as truth.

Interesting that such an educated person would choose to be a jerk rather than debate logically.  Oh well, c'est la vie.

Krappyappy wrote:

since you can't be bothered to test things for yourself, i have done it for you.

No need.  I've got the screenshots to prove my testing, as you can now see.

Krappyappy wrote:

all shots were done with full health. as you can see, only the elevated situation allows the shooter to live, and with significant damage. now if you had used the GL in game, you would already know this.

Funny, but my in-game experience (as evidenced by my screenshots) tell a different story. 

Krappyappy wrote:

why would people spread lies and rumors like this? they must either be doing it deliberately, or have no experience with it. i will assume that you're not some scheming loser who deliberately goes online and tells odious lies. if you have no experience using the GL but say it takes no skill to use it, then nothing you say has any validity, period.

I have plenty of experience with it, having played ~260 hours in this game, and I have just disproved your theory that the "jumping to survive a grenade-launcher blast" is a myth.  It's right there in 800x600 full color for you to see. 

Krappyappy wrote:

it takes more skill to use a weapon which can kill yourself than one which can't.

Funny, I was going to say it takes more skill to use the rifle in "noob-toob" situations, but meh, whatever.

Nyte wrote:

You are firing at an angle and not straight down.  Krappy was demonstrating it STRAIGHT down, YOU are demonstrating it at a 235 degree angle (with respect to the 4 quadrants in trigonometry).

I believe it was -clearly- ~235.1123913 degrees.

Nyte wrote:

You are firing at an angle and not straight down.  Krappy was demonstrating it STRAIGHT down, YOU are demonstrating it at a 235 degree angle (with respect to the 4 quadrants in trigonometry).

Ok? Bye.

I was firing it as far down as I could fire it, based on the location of the person I was trying to hit with it.  I was simulating perfectly the situation that raises the arguments about the grenade launchers WHILE IN THE GAME.  What I illustrated is the problem of "noob-toobing", as they occur in a gameplay situation.

Ok?  Suck it, Trebek.  Nobody squeezed your head, junior.

RKF77 wrote:

Ok?  Suck it, Trebek.  Nobody squeezed your head, junior.

I think we all need to calm down and have some dip.

Krappyappy wrote:

until you can find a way to discredit my videos, i have no need to respond to anything you have to say on this matter. bottom line is you said you could survive a GL shot to the foot while jumping. i have evidence to the contrary. it's your responsibility to explain my evidence.

Nope, I'm gonna go my separate way.  We're not going to see eye-to-eye on the matter, so there's no point in continuing.

As far as I'm concerned, my screenshots prove the overall point at hand, and that's that there is a problem with the grenade launchers in their current iteration.  In a gameplay situation, they can be exploited.  That's the big deal here, right?  Gameplay?

No biggie.  I wish you could have been more civil about it, but I guess that's too much to ask around here.

Krappyappy wrote:

i'm not going to continue in a civilised manner when people start spewing things that aren't true. i work as a statistical psychologist, and as a scientist, i do not tolerate people who don't find things out for themselves rather than accepting whatever other people say as truth.

since you can't be bothered to test things for yourself, i have done it for you.

Video One - standing GL shot, straight down.
http://rapidshare.de/files/9702119/BF2_ … t.avi.html

Video Two - jumping GL shot, straight down.
http://rapidshare.de/files/9702340/BF2_ … t.avi.html

Video Three - jumping GL shot to the ground while standing on an elevated object.
http://rapidshare.de/files/9702809/BF2_ … t.avi.html

all shots were done with full health. as you can see, only the elevated situation allows the shooter to live, and with significant damage. now if you had used the GL in game, you would already know this.

why would people spread lies and rumors like this? they must either be doing it deliberately, or have no experience with it. i will assume that you're not some scheming loser who deliberately goes online and tells odious lies. if you have no experience using the GL but say it takes no skill to use it, then nothing you say has any validity, period.

it takes more skill to use a weapon which can kill yourself than one which can't. play quake 3 and watch the newbs blow themselves up with the rocket launcher. adding a distance fuse would eliminate the possibility of killing yourself with the GL [unless you fire it straight up], and make it more of a newb weapon.

Oh no! Not rapid share!! They're evil!

You know what, Krappy, go fuck yourself.  You're not worth the effort.

Keep jerking yourself off in front of everyone, I know people with fragile egos need to be right all the time.  I'll let you bask in your glory now.

I was about to admit an incorrect statement in the effort to get the debate back on track, but I learned a long time ago that it's simply not worth my time to be civil with people who are incapable of acting like adults.

Go play in traffic.

Last edited by RKF77 (2005-12-23 11:27:17)

with that ugly business out of the way, we can get back to the thread topic.

a lot of people have talked about the effectiveness of the GL in killing BH crews. the DICE dev's comment was that the GL was an anti vehicle weapon. killing BH crews is not anti vehicle, it's anti personnel. you could just shoot them if they stayed still. it's only anti vehicle if you blow up the BH.