BF2S Forums Why do so many servers prohibit attacking or entering uncaps?

you still don´t get it...

you can still enter uncaps to blow up the com-tools.

if you play in a league/clan war, go and rape the uncap and do anything for victory.

but in a public game, where there are mixed teams, pros and newbs, people who have 2GB ram and others who only have 512MB ram and so on, it is a matter of fair play, to NOT rape the uncap.
there can never be fair settings on publics, so that is something, the players have to enforce. play fair - fight hard.
at least, you can not code everything: there are still possibilities to glitch into buildings - so is it the way dice meant the game to be played, only because it is possible?

umm get a clue dude when they learn of the glitch they code it they havent touched this since day one so it is obvious they intended for it, and they did code a few weapons to defend them with,or are they just for show?and like you said pubs will never be even because of pc differences so why not take advantage of what you can?just cause some people dont like it?if you dont like it do it back,as simple as that not only the carriers can be raped so get them where you can and then they cant rape.i"ve been a the receiving end many times, never do i whine or call the person a noob, instead i do something that might be useful.maybe it is a cheap way to get kills but so is going after armor in a heli, or killing inf with armor,or flying a j10,  or so many other "tactics"that people will flame me for compairing them. but honestly why is one gay thing worse then the other.seriously get some skill and quit bitching its a game...

Drexel wrote:

I'm an admin on a server that enforces the rules of no entering an uncap.  I understand your arguments mindbullets, but you said that it would be ok to attack thoes bases as long as you don't spawn camp.  No offence, but I don't see how you can attack a spawn and not call it spawncamping.

I enforce these rules because more than 90% of the people who enter these uncaps go in with the intent to go kill everyone that they can before they die.  If they would just sit back at the first flag and still have that attitude, I feel the game flows much better and less people are happy.

When there are people in the uncaps, just about everyone on the uncap's team gets angry, where if you deny the entry, then one or two people on the other team get angry.

Either way, it's a prefrence, and if you don't like a server, well there's about 5000 others.  I'm sure you'll find one you'll like.

Actually, if we want to get technical there are 3 different terms that can be applied to uncaps. There's spawn camping, base raping, and base raiding.

Spawn camping in it's most technical sense as it's applied to any game, whether it's BF2 or Unreal, is killing someone at the precise point that they spawn in at on the map. In BF2 every flag has about 3-5 spawn points, which I think are actually referred to as insertion points in the BF2 map editor. If you are interested you can download the BF2 mod tools and map editor and open up an existing map and you'll actually be able to see exactly where someone will potentially spawn in at for a particular flag. Memorizing these spawn or insertion points and placing your crosshair over them so that you can kill someone right as they spawn in is spawn killing in the technical sense and definitely should be prohibited. I've seen a coordinated squad that knew exactly where all the spawn points were for the market flag in Karkand and parked or stood over them so that the enemy could only spawn in at the last remaining insertion point so they could instantly get a kill from the only remaining spawn point for the flag. To make things worse it was MEC's last flag and they weren't even trying to cap it, just stat pad.

Base raping or spawn raping as it's sometimes referred to is a slightly different practice where a base or uncap is attacked either from inside or outside the perimeter, but without employing the spawn camping practice of placing your crosshairs on specific spawn points for instant kills. Usually base raping occurs after the enemy of the target base has already spawned and is trying to get out or defend the base. Bombing a carrier runway for instance would be considered an act of base raping as opposed to spawn camping because the pilot can't target a specific spawn point of the uncap (unless he's really researched it and perfected his strike routine) but can simply hope to attack enemy units or vehicles that are already in the uncap and are trying to defend it or disperse from the flag.

Base raiding is where a base or uncap is attacked with a specific strategic objective, whether it be to destroy commander assets, destroy vehicle assets, steal vehicles, or pin down an advancing enemy army near one of your team's flags. I think most players don't have a problem with base raids, but because spawn camping and base raping annoys so many people it seems that many servers seem to prohibit all 3 practices, except for the very specific aspect of destroying commander assets.

As others have said though, I don't think those players who like to employ practices of base raiding should be punished because of the few players who like to practice spawn camping or over-zealous base raping.

umm  ive never seen a fps that said you cant shoot me or kill me,and anyone can do it so how is it not "fair"come on you can do better then that

Last edited by nlsme (2006-11-06 18:34:38)

OpsChief wrote:

SargeV1.4 wrote:

Why is everyone assuming the "lets keep them in their base so we can win" scenario?

two things:
1: Barely anybody cares about winning. They care about their score and KD.
2: the majority of the time baseraping is not to keep people in their bases, it's to improve someone's score. And almost always the baserapees team do have flags.

lol

i reject your assumption about other people's assumptions but only because I assume nobody has done a genuine study to prove your "two things". I admin a ranked server that allows, encourages teamwork and strategic level play and the few so-called baserapers and spawn campers who are stat padders don't have the skill to survive doing that very long because they get overwhelmed by people who know that base defense is part of the game. The teamplaying strategic guys get into the base take care of business, render the enemy commander a blind eunuch, steal everything that ain't nailed down then go add to the fight (or stop to have a cold beer at the Karkand Hotel Lounge and Kaoroke Bar). The regular players who notice people wasting time usually start up a vote or use some other method of persuasion to motivate the lazy attempted stat padder.

Sometimes pinning the enemy down in his home base is good because if he has a better players why be pwned if you can pwn the pwners.

I like seeing my squad all over the post-game board at the end of a winning game but the best games are the 1-0  2-0  type dead even finish sweaty bloody desparate struggles that last too long but, winning is nice, stats except to earn unlocks are useless baggage but then those warbadges are kinda pretty on our uniforms at parties right? The ladies love 'em.

very nicely put +1 from me buddy

[AR15]GerberSchwintz wrote:

I kill people where ever I find them, uncap or not. If the people who whined in game the whole time tried to root out the people in the uncap they would help their team and their scores.

well said Gerber +1

So ya gotta baseraper eh? welllll, go kill him! Don't ask the admin to do your job Soldier!!! What are you gettin' paid for anyway? What's that? you say "it will take too long to hunt down and kill the raper?" and your points will go down...   hmmm so you cry stat padding only when it interferes with your, uh, statpadding!

nlsme wrote:

how is it not "fair"

you don´t even try to understand - so you are not able or to lazy. why should i waste a single word more on you?

nlsme wrote:

if you sit back you have to wait for them to fight over that precious tank then wait another ten minutes for them to attack you.

As server admins say on these types of servers: go play somewhere else if you don't like it.  You're not bound.  There are plenty of "it's war, deal with it" type servers.  Go away.  Enjoy.

nlsme wrote:

Just because it cant be "captured doesnt mean it is of no strategic value. That is where the most valued assets of the game are, so to deprive a team of those assets holds an extrememly large STRATEGIC value.

Who says its not strategic.  Of course it is and the admins choose to add to the "strategic-ness" of the noncap to make it a safe-haven for that team.  Logically, I of course agree with you.  But you don't pay for the server.  You don't admin the server.  Why should you be shocked if clans want to set up their OWN rules for their OWN server?

nlsme wrote:

It is lame to forbid the game to be played the way dice "MEANT" for it to be played

Check out rockheadgaming.com in the forums - one of the admins posted an excellent explanation of thier rules and how they are COMPATIBLE with the basic rules setup by DICE.  Basically, DICE says that the rules enforced by servers like these are completely acceptable.  So in short, you're wrong.  These servers ARE playing the game the way it's "meant to be played" according to DICE.  Boo hoo for you and you no-skill spawn campers.

I hate the fact that you cannot tactically do this.  I.E. On Operation dropping bombs on the helo pads/f15 hangar, or in other cases where supression at the uncap level is effective. Or if they have no other flags capped, there is nothing else to do.

On the other side, if an entire squad is farking around a uncap for no reason, then their team suffers.

RoosterCantrell wrote:

IM also kinda wondering really, why does anyone give a shit about "winning the round" as an army?  Points, fine, get a gold star, but who gives a shit if the team wins. Now that the War College Ribbon is based on time and command points. your W/L ratio doesn't mean jack. W/L isn't usually determined by you, the one player, but the ability of your team anyway, i'll stick to a shitty team and lose a round. oh well, medic whore it.

So, by not raping the uncap it gives a better battle. Better Battle=More points.   And if you are not in it for points at all, what would be the fun of targeting a spawn SPOT and waiting someone to spawn, and kill them within 1/2 a second of thier current life. IF that entertains you, there is this sweet game iv'e seen at Chuck-e Cheese's... it's called "whack-a-mole".

Not that I mind being raped, its part of the game if the server Admins give the go ahead, but I don't rape, unless there's an enemy sniper.  Ill medic and supply the living shit out of the rapers, but leave the killing to them. Uncap raping gives the enemy no chance (jalalabad). IT's lame.

lol "better battle = more points"!!!   It's OK though, you have your reasons for playing. For me playing for points isn't important at all in fact I can't think of a game worth playing just for individual stat points. Teamwork maybe, the excitement, interesting battle situations to solve but not for points.

Points aren't transferable from game to game but friends are, skills are, etc..

Seriously, not counting aircraft can anyone make more points spawn camping than joining the battle fully? The only way they could do that is if the other team plays stupidly without teamwork, i.e., no communications, not warning of the camper location, not spawning on squad leader to hunt and kill the camper, come on this was a problem on Far Cry but how can it be in BF2? Too many spawn options in BF2 to make an argument for that. Spawn camping is an annoyance for some but not a problem for all.

PS. If the USMC doesn't defend Staging Area on Jalalabad they are a noob team. Never give up your beachhead in enemy territory or the war is over! The funny thing is usually only point chasers complain about raping because it takes them away from the point farming. The score per minute stats start dwindling when you have to leave the "Front" and go do rear area security patrols, rules against base raids are reverse-stat padding. They help people keep spm and k:d up by reducing travel time to the enemy targets.

We need both kinds of servers, the level 1-4 open battle maps and level 1-2 spawn fenced games help everyone find a game to suit their level of play.

Last edited by OpsChief (2006-11-07 08:46:11)

URE_DED wrote:

nlsme wrote:

seriously get some skill

Because spawncamping takes skill????????

no OVERCOMING THE SPAWNCAMPER does asshole

URE_DED wrote:

nlsme wrote:

seriously get some skill

Because spawncamping takes skill????????

lmao +1   why, yes. You need to study and memorize each insertion point for every flag! Then you need to be able to hit what you shoot at and uh the enemy needs to keep spawning there and your team must not kick-vote you for hindering team efforts when you let someone cap the main while you are out f*ing around, and and and...oh forget it .

Doing anything well takes skill but what value is an expert nose-picker who can't wipe his own ass? 

We should be talking about skill-sets not skills. What can someone do besides spawncamping and how often do they do it?