Pages: 1 2

 

2006-11-04 19:50:52
ts-pulsar
Member
+54|6760
What do you all think of Social Security.


I personally don't like it at all.  I see it as a very intrusive program and it takes away some freedom.

Why does the government feel that all people are so stupid that they are unable to prepare for retirement on their own?  It's basically just a program that says, your too dumb to retire properly, so we're gonna take money from you and set it aside until you retire so it's available... oh and by the way, you have no choice in the matter, you go to jail if you try to resist.
2006-11-04 19:59:02
Stealth42o
She looked 18 to me officer
+175|6929
Your kidding right?
2006-11-04 21:12:50
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6994|Salt Lake City

You do realize that SSI also covers those that become disabled and can no longer work, right?  Also, given current medical technology people are capable of outliving the retirement benefits they may have set aside from the past.

Lest we not forget that many companies are killing the pension programs that were supposed to support their retirees...except they are just living too damn long!
2006-11-04 22:02:47
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6806|San Diego, CA, USA
Give me 50% of the money that I put into Social Security and I'll invest it in some very safe Mutual Funds or CDs...over the 35 years time the money that I have would be way more than anything the governement will be paying me when I retire at 70.
2006-11-04 22:13:52
Phantom2828
Member
+51|6785|Land of the free
Privatization.
The payout would be much much more than the government gives you.
2006-11-04 22:15:38
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6994|Salt Lake City

If it is privatized, only a portion of it could be.  Maybe half, but the rest would have to remain as it is.
2006-11-04 22:20:09
Phantom2828
Member
+51|6785|Land of the free
Its going bankrupt anyways.
When it was created there were about 8 people supporting every senior.
Today there is about 2 and dropping people supporting every senior
2006-11-04 22:25:35
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6994|Salt Lake City

Phantom2828 wrote:

Its going bankrupt anyways.
When it was created there were about 8 people supporting every senior.
Today there is about 2 and dropping people supporting every senior
Only because of the "Baby Boomers".  That will subside and then it will go back up.  The reason it is going bankrupt is because the government can't keep their paws off the money.  They continue to borrow against it without any means of paying it back.
2006-11-04 23:33:34
ts-pulsar
Member
+54|6760
No one else has a problem with the government taking your money, because they say your just not smart enough to use it properly.

And yes I know it covers the disabled, and I don't have too much of a problem with that (I still don't think it's a governmental responsibility, but I know support for the disabled will never go away).

And what about those who don't want to retire, if you don't retire you don't get that money back.  I know I don't want to retire, I go nuts if I don't have something to do.  I'd rather have that money to invest or spend.

At the very least I'd like to see it privatized, but it's still the government telling you that you HAVE to set aside money, and I just have a serious problem with the government telling me I HAVE to do anything.
2006-11-07 07:44:08
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6807|Southeastern USA
SS sucks ass, there is no account with your name on it, declaring and verifying that pulsar contributed X amount of money, therefor pulsar is entitled to X amount of money + interest. that's why you get into a bind like we are now where there are more baby boomers drawing on it than people are contributing into it (this is, to bush's credit, currently a large contributing factor to the fed operational deficit). also there are no controls to keep congress from putting their fingers in it and using SS funds for something else. privatization is the key (it has not yet to my knowledge been proposed to do so 100%, nor do i think it should be), but this means less power to "buy" votes with promises of more handouts, so every time this is brought up it is vehemently opposed, meanwhile the only alternative that the "opposition" can provide it "oh the demographic that is drawing on it disproportionately will die soon".
2006-11-07 07:55:55
jonsimon
Member
+224|6753
Think of social security this way: The government is going to get the same amount of money from you, whether you like it or not. Knowing that, would you rather they set some aside for your retirement, or spent it on something else?
2006-11-07 07:57:13
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6813
Social security - the barrier between civilisation and anarchy.
2006-11-07 08:55:02
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6703|The Land of Scott Walker

Harmor wrote:

Give me 50% of the money that I put into Social Security and I'll invest it in some very safe Mutual Funds or CDs...over the 35 years time the money that I have would be way more than anything the governement will be paying me when I retire at 70.
+1  The stupid government screws up everything.  Privitization FTW!  I don't want the government to have my money, I want to choose how it's invested like I do with my 401K and IRAs.  Investment should be an option for younger taxpayers, but the older taxpayers are so worried they won't get their check that it will never happen and social security will fail . . . then EVERYONE loses their money.  Current retirees and all the baby boomers are bleeding the system dry.  They didn't plan for retirement and they're not supposed to live off Social Security!  Now the rest of us are paying for it.  Thanks a lot retirees!  Now us younger people get stuck holding a bag with holes in it!

Kr@cker, your points are right on the money.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-11-07 08:56:13)

2006-11-07 09:20:26
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7000|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
Sure, Sure - they fed you and clothed you built your nation, fought for you, gave you your liberty, paid taxes all their lives and now they are old and vulnerable - fuck em, Hope the bastards die so you don't have to spend anything.. You are all a credit to your nation.  The government here forced privatisation of pensions in the 80's (that great capitalist Margaret Thatcher) and what did the companies do? either stole the money (yeah they went to prison big fucking deal the people still lost their money) or lost it by making unwise investments with the money the people trusted them with. People are retiring now to be told their pensions aren't worth shit. While the Pension Fund managers are all living in luxary laughing at the poor bastards they cleaned..
2006-11-07 09:30:52
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6703|The Land of Scott Walker
The state of pensions in many countries is a tragedy.  Not a government issue, but an issue of corruption in corporations.

The fact is, paying taxes all your life is the destiny of every US citizen.  It doesn't give retirees the right to opposed privitization when it will not take away the check they currently get.  No one is saying "fuck em", they  . . .  still  . . . get  . . .  their  . . . money.  If anyone is saying "fuck you" it's retirees and their organizations like AARP that oppose privitization, ensuring the next generation will not have Social Security.  The problem wouldn't be so bad if people weren't so dependent on the system because they didn't plan ahead.  Simple.  My parents planned well, it's not that hard if you are discplined enough not to spend all your money.  And they aren't rich either.  My Dad made less than 30K a year through my whole childhood with 2 kids and a wife at home and he managed to save for retirement properly.  Quit pointing your finger at the younger generation.  We're saving and it's obvious too many baby boomers didn't.
2006-11-07 09:36:11
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6807|Southeastern USA
and what part of forcing me against my will to provide retirement to those to lazy/dumb/indifferent to do so themselves is ethical, i'm too politically incorrect for that bleeding heart bullshit to work, besides, the babyboomers are the ones who were born POST ww2, tripped away the 60's, smoked away the 70's, and spent all their money on self indulgence in the 80's, they didn't build our nation, give me my liberty, or fight for me. what parent doesn't clothe and feed their children ( i know there are a few, you know what i mean), my parent's and grandparents know i'll help if needed, whether they ask or not. Taxes? so what? last time I checked there were something like 3 baby boomers dipping into every 1 of my generation's SS funding, we're paying taxes too.
2006-11-07 09:41:10
nlsme
Member
+48|6673|new york
30k a year is well above TODAYS poverty level and 2 kids is below the average so i would say your parents had an above average income.not saying ss isnt in trouble and shouldnt be reformed but people getting screwed out of pensions or barely having enough money to invest sure makes a good point on why it is needed.
2006-11-07 09:43:54
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7000|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

Stingray24 wrote:

The state of pensions in many countries is a tragedy.  Not a government issue, but an issue of corruption in corporations.
see that's why Capitalism doesn't work, people were forced by the government to the mercy of  pension advisors   and got ripped off, not through their own fault by not saving - what the fuck do you think paying into a pension plan is? they had no other choice - only to be told that their pension is not worth shit because their money was either robbed or badly invested ,and, there is nothing the government can do. No matter what way you cut it up it's a shit situation for people who though they were paying Tax's & pension plan for some peace of mind having worked & contributed  all their lives up to retirement.
2006-11-07 09:46:51
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6703|The Land of Scott Walker

nlsme wrote:

30k a year is well above TODAYS poverty level and 2 kids is below the average so i would say your parents had an above average income.not saying ss isnt in trouble and shouldnt be reformed but people getting screwed out of pensions or barely having enough money to invest sure makes a good point on why it is needed.
I said he made less than 30K.  Probably closer to 20K.  My Dad provided for me and raised me well, I'm just saying we didn't have extra.  The people howling about the state of their finances made at least 2X what my Dad did, but they were stupid and spent their money on big boy toys instead of retirement. I do not feel sorry for them at all.  They're a good lesson for our generation to get saving.  Don't take the pension, invest in your 401K to get the free money from the company match.  It's hard cash in an account that you own.  No one can take it away and you make the choices where to invest it.
2006-11-07 09:48:34
jonsimon
Member
+224|6753

kr@cker wrote:

and what part of forcing me against my will to provide retirement to those to lazy/dumb/indifferent to do so themselves is ethical, i'm too politically incorrect for that bleeding heart bullshit to work, besides, the babyboomers are the ones who were born POST ww2, tripped away the 60's, smoked away the 70's, and spent all their money on self indulgence in the 80's, they didn't build our nation, give me my liberty, or fight for me. what parent doesn't clothe and feed their children ( i know there are a few, you know what i mean), my parent's and grandparents know i'll help if needed, whether they ask or not. Taxes? so what? last time I checked there were something like 3 baby boomers dipping into every 1 of my generation's SS funding, we're paying taxes too.
You're not providing anyone anything. Don't kid yourself thinking the government wouldn't tax that money away from you even if they didn't give it to retirees.
2006-11-07 09:48:40
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6807|Southeastern USA
that's why the last SS reform panels looked at the failures of places like ireland before coming up with their plans and put safeties to prevent it from happening, if we don't fix it, it goes bankrupt, but that's just fine for most it seems, no one else seems to be coming up with a better idea.
2006-11-07 10:03:48
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7000|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

kr@cker wrote:

that's why the last SS reform panels looked at the failures of places like Ireland before coming up with their plans and put safeties to prevent it from happening, if we don't fix it, it goes bankrupt, but that's just fine for most it seems, no one else seems to be coming up with a better idea.
Good i'm glad such a panel exists , maybe they should learn to read a fucking map and look at the right country to learn from its mistakes?  just to save you making another  Geo-political Faux Pas - which make you look an even bigger idiot, Thacther had nothing to do with Ireland, it was another country.
2006-11-07 10:10:00
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6749|Northern California
I think many nations offer some sort of assistence to retirees via something similar to social security.  I just got a social security statement last week saying that if I retire early, at 62, my monthly pay will be $1360 per month..if I retire early at 65, it will pay out $1750 per month.  If I retire at retirement age, which is now 67 I think it said, the pay out will be $2100 per month. 

It's not alot of money by any means, but it's good insurance for if I'm unemployed or if I actually live long enough to retire in my 60's and need gas money and utility money.

Social Security is not meant to replace savings or investments made for retirement.  It's the government's simple offer of assistence.  it's not great, it's not bad.  For some, it's a life saver..for others, it's useless.
2006-11-07 10:11:03
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6703|The Land of Scott Walker

kr@cker wrote:

that's why the last SS reform panels looked at the failures of places like ireland before coming up with their plans and put safeties to prevent it from happening, if we don't fix it, it goes bankrupt, but that's just fine for most it seems, no one else seems to be coming up with a better idea.
Typical Dem strategy: scare the folks with bs so the proposed solution can't be implemented, without suggesting any viable alternative to the proposal.  That way, everyone gets screwed and we'll be able to blame the Republicans.
2006-11-07 10:22:21
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6807|Southeastern USA

IG-Calibre wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

that's why the last SS reform panels looked at the failures of places like Ireland before coming up with their plans and put safeties to prevent it from happening, if we don't fix it, it goes bankrupt, but that's just fine for most it seems, no one else seems to be coming up with a better idea.
Good i'm glad such a panel exists , maybe they should learn to read a fucking map and look at the right country to learn from its mistakes?  just to save you making another  Geo-political Faux Pas - which make you look an even bigger idiot, Thacther had nothing to do with Ireland, it was another country.
jesus, someone hasn't been laid in a while, i read your post about that a long time before i posted that last part, and, OMG!!! i forgot you mentioned thatcher!!! How dare i look at you say "the government here" and see " from ireland" in your personal info and think that you meant "the government here in ireland", how about we start correcting each other's spelling next? at least we didn't have to wait til page 2 to get into grade school name-calling. do you know where you live?

poo-poo head!!

 

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