Pages: 1 … 9 10 11

 

Poll

Would you consider/have engaged in premarital sex?

Yes, already been there and done that.66%66% - 209
Yes, I will if I get the chance to/grow up.18%18% - 59
Undecided, need to learn more.5%5% - 17
Definitely not, it's wrong.9%9% - 29
Total: 314
2006-10-12 13:13:05
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6747|Northern California
Jon, is there a cure for HIV?

Yet I gave a woman a blessing of healing who went from being positive for HIV antibodies to negative.  She's alive and well today in Jundiaí, São Paulo, Brasil.  She even developed AIDS from her HIV infection and was on that road to death.  I think her doctors gave her a very bleak outlook limiting her to just months to live.  I'd give you her address and phone number so you could ask her to prove a miracle, but i doubt you speak portuguese.  Oh yeah, I spoke fluent portuguese within a month of being in brazil...and I flunked spanish two years in a row in high school! lol  Learning languages when doing the lords work is also known as "the gift of tongues."

And just in case this was a fluke, or misdiagnosis...there's a handful of other brasilians I know who had stomach ulcers who don't have them anymore.  There's countless other miracles and experiences that I've witnessed directly and indirectly, and then hundreds of thousands and probably millions experienced by people with faith who would likewise tell you it's more than something they don't understand or coincidence.

Sorry you're taking offense.  It was not my objective.  Since I have first hand experience and second hand experience that living a life without the gospel of Jesus Christ in it is BETTER and more FULFILLING than one without it, it's not hard to conclude such an opinion.  I don't know how you live your life, nor did I presume to tell you your life is crap, but I'm pretty sure whatever you life entails, there IS always opportunity to improve it and guess what???  I know for a fact that religion can work.  There, is that better put?  Or did i just tell you subliminally that you're going to hell or that you are satan?  lol

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-10-12 13:15:15)

2006-10-12 13:38:41
jonsimon
Member
+224|6751

IRONCHEF wrote:

Jon, is there a cure for HIV?

Yet I gave a woman a blessing of healing who went from being positive for HIV antibodies to negative.  She's alive and well today in Jundiaí, São Paulo, Brasil.  She even developed AIDS from her HIV infection and was on that road to death.  I think her doctors gave her a very bleak outlook limiting her to just months to live.  I'd give you her address and phone number so you could ask her to prove a miracle, but i doubt you speak portuguese.  Oh yeah, I spoke fluent portuguese within a month of being in brazil...and I flunked spanish two years in a row in high school! lol  Learning languages when doing the lords work is also known as "the gift of tongues."

And just in case this was a fluke, or misdiagnosis...there's a handful of other brasilians I know who had stomach ulcers who don't have them anymore.  There's countless other miracles and experiences that I've witnessed directly and indirectly, and then hundreds of thousands and probably millions experienced by people with faith who would likewise tell you it's more than something they don't understand or coincidence.

Sorry you're taking offense.  It was not my objective.  Since I have first hand experience and second hand experience that living a life without the gospel of Jesus Christ in it is BETTER and more FULFILLING than one without it, it's not hard to conclude such an opinion.  I don't know how you live your life, nor did I presume to tell you your life is crap, but I'm pretty sure whatever you life entails, there IS always opportunity to improve it and guess what???  I know for a fact that religion can work.  There, is that better put?  Or did i just tell you subliminally that you're going to hell or that you are satan?  lol
Again, I wouldn't assume so hastily it was a miracle or any such. I would rather admit I do not understand, though I would reserve the confidence that I could understand, given the proper insight. And as a side note, medical science isn't a science, all medical science is a very loose misunderstanding of human homeostasis, at least in America. As for ulcers, they are often caused by stress, and are not incapable of fading on their own. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if someone's body cured themselves of HIV. I have seen and understood enough of the intricacies and astounding capability of the human body to openly accept such a feat as the product of the body alone.

As for miracles providing proof of religious power, it is fallacy to assume that two events are in any way interdependent simply because they are observed in coincidence.

Don't worry about my ego, I don't take offense, I just point out insults so as to undermine the ethos or authority of my opponent. As for your past experiences outside of religion, your logic is again flawed. You make the assumption that life without religion is the same for all, and thus, all can benefit through religion. This assumption is incorrect and is possibly the root of your superiority complex. For example, if I presented as evidence against religion, a former atheist who had coverted to christianity, and, at the same period in his life, become a monumental failure, you would not accept this as evidence that religion ruins lives. And you would be correct, but your argument in the favor of religious superiority is flawed in the same way as my hypothetical argument in the favor of religious inferiority.

Thus, it is reasonable to hypothesize that any superiority you may or may not posess can be derived independent of your religious affiliation and, as such, provides an equal oppertunity for any non-religious or differently religious person to fit the same condition that leads you to believe in your superiority.

In other words, you could very well be superior to a lot of people, but it isnt simply your religion that makes you so, and you should not assume anyone that does not share your religion is inferior for this reason.

Tone down your pride. Don't want to be a sinner, do you?

Last edited by jonsimon (2006-10-12 13:42:09)

2006-10-12 14:41:55
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6747|Northern California
haha, you're worse than the discovery channel at explaining away faith related healing! lol

How you can explain things you didn't witness is hillarious, and you're calling me proud? 

When you are standing with someone who is terminally ill, and has been, and there's medical PROOF they are, and because of some spoken words and the invocation of a power higher than medicine, which cures said terminal illness...you can calmly say that they aren't related?  Having not even witnessed it?  And people are voting ME the craziest liberal on the forums... geez mon.

Also, i apologize for you taking offense, it was not my intention.  And yes, I forgive you for assuming i'm some self-righteous zealot (as is always the case with people taking offense from religious people).  I am a sinner, but my righteousness is not measured by being perfect, it's measured by my efforts, as anyone's is.
2006-10-12 15:14:14
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6701|The Land of Scott Walker

jonsimon wrote:

Thanks for implying I'm ignorant for not being religious. You can't prove "miracles", sorry. If I see something miraclulous, I would rather be humble and assume I don't understand what I saw than be found guilty of the sin of pride. Yes, I just implied you are doomed to hell.
I said you can deny it if you want.  I did not imply you are ignorant.  You proved my point by trying to deny the validity of miracles in your following responses. 

I take no pride in the healings and miraculous events I have witnessed.  You are reading into what I'm posting and assuming I'm proud.  On the contrary, it is all God and His power alone.  I was fortunate to be there to witness God work.  Nothing more, nothing less.  What I understand is that what I witnessed is not humanly possible and happened immediately after asking God to do it.  All the glory goes to God, not me.  Fortunately it was all God's power that saved me from sin.  Nothing I did on my own.  Now all I want to do is as much as I can to tell others about what God can and will do.  I hope someday you, too, can come to the same understanding.  That's my prayer for you.  Not because I'm superior or whatever, I'm not.  God's grace is free for everyone.
2006-10-12 15:18:49
liquix
Member
+51|6710|Peoples Republic of Portland
Premarital sex is wrong to me if its a one-nighter type situation. I have absolutely no problem with it in a stable relationship, between two folks who love eachother. The reason I think its okay in a stable relationship is because its their freakin' business, not mine. I don't condone one-nighters because that makes for alot of unwanted pregnancies and disease. In the end, no matter what happens in this post i'll garuntee that millions of people christian and non-christian are going to be humping before they are married.

Last edited by liquix (2006-10-12 15:19:25)

2006-10-12 15:20:04
HornyToady
Member
+3|6966|Wisconsin, USA
Oh man....here we go.....
2006-10-12 15:35:50
jonsimon
Member
+224|6751

IRONCHEF wrote:

haha, you're worse than the discovery channel at explaining away faith related healing! lol

How you can explain things you didn't witness is hillarious, and you're calling me proud? 

When you are standing with someone who is terminally ill, and has been, and there's medical PROOF they are, and because of some spoken words and the invocation of a power higher than medicine, which cures said terminal illness...you can calmly say that they aren't related?  Having not even witnessed it?  And people are voting ME the craziest liberal on the forums... geez mon.

Also, i apologize for you taking offense, it was not my intention.  And yes, I forgive you for assuming i'm some self-righteous zealot (as is always the case with people taking offense from religious people).  I am a sinner, but my righteousness is not measured by being perfect, it's measured by my efforts, as anyone's is.
Yes, I was offering possible explanations, but, I already said I do not understand what really happened. Thanks for ignoring me. And yes, I can say they aren't related if there is no indication they are related other than their coincidence. I mean, sure, it may look like prayer or whatever cured her, and you keep saying it cured her, but there is no base for that claim besides the observation that the prayer and the cure seemed to occur in proximity.

Again, I didn't take any offense. I don't find anything you've said offensive. I said that. Are you ignoring me?

I didn't assume you were self-righteous (which you ironically called yourself in the same post above) or a zealot, I simply inferred you find yourself superior as you have expressed the opinion that religious people are superior to others and the fact that you are religious.

On a possibly inappropriate tangent here, you'd call a mass murder a righteous man if he was just trying to do the right thing?
2006-10-12 15:44:44
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6701|The Land of Scott Walker

jonsimon wrote:

On a possibly inappropriate tangent here, you'd call a mass murder a righteous man if he was just trying to do the right thing?
You could've left that out.  No true Christians would call a mass murderer righteous because he was trying in some warped sense to do the right thing.  Let's discuss a better example.
2006-10-12 15:54:40
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6747|Northern California

jonsimon wrote:

And yes, I can say they aren't related if there is no indication they are related other than their coincidence. I mean, sure, it may look like prayer or whatever cured her, and you keep saying it cured her, but there is no base for that claim besides the observation that the prayer and the cure seemed to occur in proximity.
No, you are dead wrong.  And for assuming you know what happened without being there and feeling that experience, you have no grounds to assume what you are assuming. 

Also, if you tell someone to move, and they move, how can you possibly believe they moved because you told them to move..according to your theory?  If I am on the telephone and I am talking to an automated voice giving voice prompts and the automated operator responds to my voice response, should I also consider that mere coincidence and they aren't related?  YOu have no proof that they correspond, according to your reasoning.

No, what happened, happened as I've described.  I anointed her head with consecrated olive oil, put my hands on her head, calmly called her by name, gave her a blessing as it came into my head by the spirit, and to my surprise, the spirit said that she would not die and that she would be made whole.  I finished, looked up, and without dry eyes in the room, we finished our visit and left.  A week later, when results returned, she was showing negative for hiv antibodies.  And guess what, no medical practition in the world has succeeded in that. 

jonsimon wrote:

I didn't assume you were self-righteous (which you ironically called yourself in the same post above) or a zealot, I simply inferred you find yourself superior as you have expressed the opinion that religious people are superior to others and the fact that you are religious.
I'm ignoring your words, but you're ignoring me as I've clearly explained that I have not elevated myself or claimed to be superior, or inferior.  Again, you are imagining this because yes, you are offended.  For such offense, I have already apologized.  Look, we can go around and around here selectively picking things to argue.  But the basics are that you have ZERO idea what you'r talking about with regards to the healings I've witnessed personally with a sober, sane mind (despite the current poll).  I've seen things that are burned into my soul that are so undebateable that it's laughable to see you try.  Just accept that healing by faith is possible to others, and you'll do just fine.  You don't have to believe it and you shouldn't unless you witnessed it.  But seriously, it's a lost cause to debate such a thing especially when you cant bring meat to the table to debate with.

jonsimon wrote:

On a possibly inappropriate tangent here, you'd call a mass murder a righteous man if he was just trying to do the right thing?
Not sure i want to answer this..smells like a trap.  Also, off topic unless this massmurderer is a fornicator...

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-10-12 15:58:08)

2006-10-12 18:06:01
jonsimon
Member
+224|6751
Fine, if you're openly admitting you're ignoring me, I'll save you the trouble and stop talking.
2006-10-15 16:32:24
Anfidurl
Use the bumper, that's what its for!
+103|6849|Lexington, Kentucky
Since this topic has devolved into a discussion on faith-healing somehow... (please tell me you guys are joking... please..)

"It's dangerous to rely on faith as a magic elixir"
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/li … 728673.htm
2006-10-17 17:51:07
cospengle
Member
+140|6743|Armidale, NSW, Australia

Vub wrote:

By its definition, fornication means sex outside of marriage, which can be understood as sex when you're not married. To a Christian, premarital sex is not allowed because sex is sacred, but to some non-Christians, premarital sex is unethical.
Where in the Bible does it say you can't have sex? It says adultery is wrong, not fornication.
2006-10-18 03:15:39
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7024
yes, why not
2006-10-18 04:07:27
|BFC|Icenflame
Member
+11|6733|Cape Town - South Africa
hey i moved in with my wife 2 years before we got married and she we lived together and had premarital sex. I was very involved in my church and i understand the covenant of blood etc. Yet I have broadened my definition of religion there is no-one right from wrong.

I believe that as always man has manipulated religion to his own gains look what the catholic church did for crying out load. I think that it is so distorted don't get me wrong I have felt the holy spirit burn through me and i have never experienced anything like it before, but I don't believe it is from Christ or God or the Holy Spirit, the bible explains the holy trinity as being one entity could that not mean that there is one force that is the almighty...

not God in the Christian sense, but Allah, the Tao or Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism...
All of these major religions have strikingly similar core beliefs! Is that a coincidence?

I think about it in this way if God is all forgiving and loving, why would he condemn millions of souls to hell for just not believing in Jesus Christ thats a bit narrow minded wouldn't you say isn't that a bit human? And not the actions of a all knowing all seeing powerfully being with endless amounts of love?

Its a bit distorted to me I cant understand so I am a Wholest I believe in lining my life as justly as possible with in certain guidelines of course many from my Christan upbringing but also much from the al-qurʼān, and Tao...

Love is the universal rule, love thy neighbor is in every key religion, humility is in every single key religion.. I could go on....
2006-10-19 09:26:10
Anfidurl
Use the bumper, that's what its for!
+103|6849|Lexington, Kentucky

IRONCHEF wrote:

haha, you're worse than the discovery channel at explaining away faith related healing! lol

How you can explain things you didn't witness is hillarious, and you're calling me proud? 

When you are standing with someone who is terminally ill, and has been, and there's medical PROOF they are, and because of some spoken words and the invocation of a power higher than medicine, which cures said terminal illness...you can calmly say that they aren't related?  Having not even witnessed it?  And people are voting ME the craziest liberal on the forums... geez mon.

Also, i apologize for you taking offense, it was not my intention.  And yes, I forgive you for assuming i'm some self-righteous zealot (as is always the case with people taking offense from religious people).  I am a sinner, but my righteousness is not measured by being perfect, it's measured by my efforts, as anyone's is.
I've witnessed it fail miserably, does that count?
Anyway, I can dismiss this VERY easily: correlation is not causation.
Not to say that personal experience can't be a powerful thing, as I've experienced faith-related things that have taken my breath away. But faith-healing can only be explained in the context of mind over matter. If one truly believes they have been healed by a higher power, then they are going to will their body into fighting it off.

Edit: Oh, but what the bloody hell does this have to do with sex?

Last edited by Anfidurl (2006-10-19 09:26:51)

2006-10-19 11:45:17
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6900
bunch virgins the whole lot of ya...jk. but seriously why is this thread still going on?

 

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