im glad weve sovled the mystery about how good/bad snipers are
Scream louder, apparently they arent listening..TheMackumSlayer wrote:
Since im a Wookiw i should say there not but i completly agree with stryyker etc more than 5 outa 32 and you have a problem as no one is taking flags. Normaly on the wookie server im screaming over voip for people to help or take flags while im keeping the j-10s down or trying to cap flags.
Bwahahahahahastryyker wrote:
Scream louder, apparently they arent listening..TheMackumSlayer wrote:
Since im a Wookiw i should say there not but i completly agree with stryyker etc more than 5 outa 32 and you have a problem as no one is taking flags. Normaly on the wookie server im screaming over voip for people to help or take flags while im keeping the j-10s down or trying to cap flags.
Fact 1: Talking about people's stats, i often see comments like "low spm, but you are a sniper, so it's ok".
Snipers' low spm is generally accepted and considered a natural fact.
Fact 2: Points come from killing bad guys or doing something for the team.
Logic conclusion: the sniper kit has less opportunities to do something useful than any other kit.
That doesn't make it TOTALLY useless, but the most useless kit.
Snipers' low spm is generally accepted and considered a natural fact.
Fact 2: Points come from killing bad guys or doing something for the team.
Logic conclusion: the sniper kit has less opportunities to do something useful than any other kit.
That doesn't make it TOTALLY useless, but the most useless kit.
Although I rarely use the sniper kit it's not entirely useless.It's a great kit for getting explosive badges.
Well congrats for this not turning into a complete flame fest so far.
Your logic is also flawed: say you have a spec ops player that has 32 kills at the end of the game but 28 deaths; you're implying that his team was better served by him than, say, a player using sniper that has maybe 24 kills but only 4 deaths. Those 24 tickets that the sniper didn't give up could make the difference between a win and a loss.
Also, not all snipers have a 'low' SPM anyway. Your SPM is 2, my main account's is just off that globally but for the last three months (almost all of that time playing sniper) it's 2.31. Nyte's global SPM is 2.44.
You think nipples on a male are useless? LOL, how old are you?killer21 wrote:
Snipers are as useful as a nipple on a male.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that.killer21 wrote:
Seriously, snipers do not affect a game one way or the other.
Word.stryyker wrote:
I have a serious problem with snipers, but if there are no more than 5 on my team of 32, then i am totally fine with them...
Hehe, forgetting that they can kill too?stryyker wrote:
...doing what they do (damage people so they are easier for me to kill).
Geez dude, where you been? Do a search, you'll find all the sniper-flaming threads.SGT.Slayero wrote:
who says thay r useless?
Exactamundo. Relatively high kills with a low ticket loss really helps in some cases. Not as much as a medic reviving his ass off throughout the game, but not every team has one of those playing.N.A.T.O wrote:
A bad sniper is useless, But A good sniper contributes to the team by getting a high number of kills and lowering the enemy ticket count and dying much less than many other classes. At least in my opinion.
Wrong. Neither of these describes me or the way I play and I know about a dozen other people who play sniper the majority of their time in BF2 and it doesn't define them either.Spearhead wrote:
Snipers are one of either two kinds of players -
1. Egotistical players obssessed with being better than other players, and generally don't like playing in or helping squads...
2. Players who know that too many snipers will produce negative effects, and only use the kit when there are only a couple other snipers on the team...
Since when does sniper = not capping flags? That's up to the player, not the kit.TheMackumSlayer wrote:
Since im a Wookiw i should say there not but i completly agree with stryyker etc more than 5 outa 32 and you have a problem as no one is taking flags.
Your fact 2 is correct, but "doing something for the team" means many things in practice.The_Jester wrote:
Fact 1: Talking about people's stats, i often see comments like "low spm, but you are a sniper, so it's ok".
Snipers' low spm is generally accepted and considered a natural fact.
Fact 2: Points come from killing bad guys or doing something for the team.
Logic conclusion: the sniper kit has less opportunities to do something useful than any other kit.
That doesn't make it TOTALLY useless, but the most useless kit.
Your logic is also flawed: say you have a spec ops player that has 32 kills at the end of the game but 28 deaths; you're implying that his team was better served by him than, say, a player using sniper that has maybe 24 kills but only 4 deaths. Those 24 tickets that the sniper didn't give up could make the difference between a win and a loss.
Also, not all snipers have a 'low' SPM anyway. Your SPM is 2, my main account's is just off that globally but for the last three months (almost all of that time playing sniper) it's 2.31. Nyte's global SPM is 2.44.
QFTusmarine2005 wrote:
Snipers are useless in this game becuase of the way it is used. A couple snipers in good spots are good, a team full of snipers running around is failure.
If anyone thinks any kit is totally useless they are dumb
If you think snipers are important part of this game then you need to check the medication you are currently on. Just because you play sniper 99 percent of the time doesn't mean that all kits fail in comparison. Seriously, judging by your second grade wit, it is obvious that you can only snipe(judging by your stats, not very well) and that's about it. Go you.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Your fact 2 is correct, but "doing something for the team" means many things in practice.
Your logic is also flawed: say you have a spec ops player that has 32 kills at the end of the game but 28 deaths; you're implying that his team was better served by him than, say, a player using sniper that has maybe 24 kills but only 4 deaths. Those 24 tickets that the sniper didn't give up could make the difference between a win and a loss.
Also, not all snipers have a 'low' SPM anyway. Your SPM is 2, my main account's is just off that globally but for the last three months (almost all of that time playing sniper) it's 2.31. Nyte's global SPM is 2.44.
A spec-ops might be killing TANKS and APC's, vehicles that are more important for your team to destroy then some infantry guy running around. A sniper will generally get the same amount of kills win or lose. A spec op can give their team a real advantage by blowing assets, so they dont get the k/d ratio of a sniper but they take out important threats on the battlefield (tanks, arty, uav, scan trailer, even grounded jets, helos etc)Todd_Angelo wrote:
Your logic is also flawed: say you have a spec ops player that has 32 kills at the end of the game but 28 deaths; you're implying that his team was better served by him than, say, a player using sniper that has maybe 24 kills but only 4 deaths. Those 24 tickets that the sniper didn't give up could make the difference between a win and a loss.
But you're right, a sniper is useful too because if they get 30k/4d on a 300 ticket server they really helped decrease the ticket count. Meh a good team has a nice little blend of everything, depending on the map certain kits are more useful then others.
Everyone who says snipers are useless can go to hell.
I own everyone of you with my sniperrifle except for nyte.
I'm teh best.
who want to touch me ?!
I own everyone of you with my sniperrifle except for nyte.
I'm teh best.
who want to touch me ?!
Honestly, I had a really bad opinion about the sniper kit for the longest time. Their loners. They fight from LONG distances instead of up-close and personal. Last, but not least, they spam countless, indestructible claymores that baffle scientists to this day. Well, my opinion of the kit has recended from a major gaping wound with salt on top to a minor annoyance.
Since completing my goal of achieveing the expert badges, i've been free to roam around in any kit i see fit. The last couple of days, its been the sniper kit.
I found that causing misery with other people as a sniper was fun. I threw claymores all over the place and killed anything that moved. Sitting atop my perch, i was unstoppable. I had alot of fun these past couple of days as a sniper, so the sniper kit is an acceptable alternative.
Since completing my goal of achieveing the expert badges, i've been free to roam around in any kit i see fit. The last couple of days, its been the sniper kit.
I found that causing misery with other people as a sniper was fun. I threw claymores all over the place and killed anything that moved. Sitting atop my perch, i was unstoppable. I had alot of fun these past couple of days as a sniper, so the sniper kit is an acceptable alternative.
See previous 'discussions'.killer21 wrote:
If you think snipers are important part of this game then you need to check the medication you are currently on.
Learn to read what people actually write. Nobody in their right mind would say that... just like nobody in their right mind should seriously think that any one class is of no use.killer21 wrote:
Just because you play sniper 99 percent of the time doesn't mean that all kits fail in comparison.
In a battle of wits, sir, I fear you arrive on the field unarmed.killer21 wrote:
Seriously, judging by your second grade wit...
Yep.killer21 wrote:
...it is obvious that you can only snipe...and that's about it.
Hahaha. better'n you buddy, better'n you.killer21 wrote:
(judging by your stats, not very well)
And besides, you don't have to be better at something to offer something in a debate on the merits of one aspect of the game or another. If that were the case then anyone with better stats could just say "I've spoken, you can shut up now" about any issue to anyone with lesser stats.
How would you like it if the dozens of better players here, in any one area, took the same tack with you? Didn't think so.
Depends a bit on the map but yes, good point (we'll ignore IO since that's not directly under discussion and the dynamics are automatically different). Let me substitute in an assault player in the above example, then it's better.turkeybacon wrote:
A spec-ops might be killing TANKS and APC's, vehicles that are more important for your team to destroy then some infantry guy running around....Todd_Angelo wrote:
Your logic is also flawed: say you have a spec ops player that has 32 kills at the end of the game but 28 deaths; you're implying that his team was better served by him than, say, a player using sniper that has maybe 24 kills but only 4 deaths. Those 24 tickets that the sniper didn't give up could make the difference between a win and a loss.
The problem in my example above using spec ops highlights something important about them not getting much recognition for their role, because it tends not to show in the scoreboard; after all how many games do we play where a spec ops gets in the top spots? Not too many. Ditto with AT. But that guy... who takes out the APC, that stops it from killing an entire squad just arrived at a flag, who then cap it and move on to the next one while the enemy player is still waiting for the APC to respawn... he could have formed one of the fulcrum points upon which a game turned. And that's not even taking into account some spec ops guy who takes it into his head to keep the enemy UAV down the entire match and the huge benefit that could be, without any obvious sign to his own team... again, "doing something for the team" means many things in practice.
It's the same thing with the unsung role of the sniper who kills that guy in the rear who was making his way to a flag, that might have meant defending on two fronts instead of one. There are lots of these hard-to-define moments in a game that would be impossible to recognise unless you examine the Battlerecorder file in detail.
In short, as should be abundantly clear to anyone reasonable, all the classes have their use, and a mixture of all is usually necessary to a smoothly-functioning team. Take any class out of the mix on one team and the opposing team could often have a huge advantage given the right map.
Snipers kick ass,i have only really started using the class since IO.But i still think assault is a waste of time.
Plus if there are too many snipers on a side,then nothing gets done but love the long range sniper battles.
The kit is useful aslong as you are following your squad and covering them as they move up.
Plus if there are too many snipers on a side,then nothing gets done but love the long range sniper battles.
The kit is useful aslong as you are following your squad and covering them as they move up.
In karkand snipers have a use.
If somebody is taking over uhm lets say square, a sniper can take out the enemy doing it before the flag is taken.
Cos running there will take too much time, a handy headshot comes in nicely.
If somebody is taking over uhm lets say square, a sniper can take out the enemy doing it before the flag is taken.
Cos running there will take too much time, a handy headshot comes in nicely.
the only time i really play sniper is if the enemy has only one flag left and nobody on my team is capping it and if i dont feel like spawn raping the poor bastards that lost all of their own flags...or if its a huge stalemate like train accident /gatehouse
wookiestryyker wrote:
truth.usmarine2005 wrote:
Snipers are useless in this game becuase of the way it is used. A couple snipers in good spots are good, a team full of snipers running around is failure.
I have a serious problem with snipers, but if there are no more than 5 on my team of 32, then i am totally fine with them doing what they do (damage people so they are easier for me to kill). However, when there are whole CLANS of snipers, sitting in one spot on Wake Island for a whole round, then I start to have issues.
Im a wookie and i only play when its needed eg 1 flag left across the bridge i cant get accross i lay a claymore and stop them coming across.
You have to learn the rules of the game and then you have to play better than anyone else.
sorry i disagree and agree in some places
ahem..
n00b snipers that wait in the 1 spot by a flag with claymores and don't actually move are useless,
snipers that actually go out on the battlefield and give there troops some long range support there not as useless and actually move around
my opinion
ahem..
n00b snipers that wait in the 1 spot by a flag with claymores and don't actually move are useless,
snipers that actually go out on the battlefield and give there troops some long range support there not as useless and actually move around
my opinion
Ok, for those who says sniper is useless. Try to take down a whole team that have 32 snipers on Jalalabad.
I have seen loads of snipers stop the USMC team so much they didn't even get out from the base on Jalalabad.
This is on IO to but on normal it's a good way to eliminate certain targets. Such as some C4 people that run up to a tank and try to blow it up. I have saved a couple of tanks due to sniper kit.
Also if 32 players would lay out loads of mine which would be a total amount of 64 mines. Damn that would be hard to ge past.
Snipers got their role in certain things and they ain't meant to turn the tides in most battles. But lots of snipers vs infantry it's pretty clear that the snipers will win if it's on distance.
I have seen loads of snipers stop the USMC team so much they didn't even get out from the base on Jalalabad.
This is on IO to but on normal it's a good way to eliminate certain targets. Such as some C4 people that run up to a tank and try to blow it up. I have saved a couple of tanks due to sniper kit.
Also if 32 players would lay out loads of mine which would be a total amount of 64 mines. Damn that would be hard to ge past.
Snipers got their role in certain things and they ain't meant to turn the tides in most battles. But lots of snipers vs infantry it's pretty clear that the snipers will win if it's on distance.
ok there are 2 out of seven kits that are designed to do just one thing...KILL
these are very abviously the assault(name says it all) and.....sniper
just because they cant throw bags or whip out a wrench doesnt mean there useless
these are very abviously the assault(name says it all) and.....sniper
just because they cant throw bags or whip out a wrench doesnt mean there useless
snipers can be usefull but most of the time there not because randoms choose it
That is true, but only the best and most seasoned snipers do well. Such as yourself - and you are an exception.Todd_Angelo wrote:
Also, not all snipers have a 'low' SPM anyway. Your SPM is 2, my main account's is just off that globally but for the last three months (almost all of that time playing sniper) it's 2.31. Nyte's global SPM is 2.44.
Seriously, you see so many low ranks playing as sniper and just sit there all round firing perhaps 5 shots and getting 1kda per round. Then, when you are commander, they have the nerve to ask for supply crates and UAV's when they are in the middile of nowhere. Do I drop supplies and UAV's to 15members of my team and a few tanks or 1 sniper sat in the top of a crane at our own uncap? (of which, the supplies wont even land on the crane...).
Not only that, but they are not situational aware. Many many times have I been commander on Ghost Town and had snipers sat in the oil towers around the island CP's - only to have those CP's neutralised and captured without the sniper even taking a look at it - not even attempting to capture it back or defend it.
Dedicated snipers are also the only players who complain of cartillery.
Every time I drop supplies to the rest of my team and the same with UAV's. The only exception is if there is a group of snipers - who aren't bottled up in the top of a crane. But even then, they will get 1 supply crate out of me. A tank will do a lot more use and work for the teams win than any number of snipers will.
It isnt the kit that is useless, it is the stereotypical view of snipers in the game, which in about 95% of cases - is actually true.
Ghost Town is full of snipers, and the only reason they are effective on that map, is because there are a shit load of them on each team. If they were AT on them rooftops, tanks and AA wouldnt stand a chance (which is exactly what I do around the Convoy CP) and the map would end up being a lot more infantry based and less vehicle based.
But the one thing that really pisses me off, is snipers who take a jeep and transport choppers - by themselves without taking anyone with them, and drive/fly to the nearest tall building and bail out onto it. A complete waste - and that hinders your team massively, especially at the start. Admittedy, that is usually these low Sgt ranks who play as sniper and wouldnt know the difference between enemy and friendly vehicles if it wasnt for them firing at their stupid asses.
At the end of the day, a game is won by taking flags. If you take the flags, you have a higher chance of winning (you will not often see a team with less flags and still manage to win from pure kills only). In that context, snipers are useless because they play no direct role in the taking of flags. Yes, they may defend a flag with the odd claymore, but that wont stop a continued effort over time - and a sniper NEVER leaves his position to rearm and plant more claymores.
Snipers are not meant to take flags - thats not their role. Their role is to pick off enemy players - but with a lot of the spots that so called "noobs" use, they are utterly useless - which annoys people who are trying to win and take flags (including myself). A team of 32players, 10 of which are snipers puts your teams chances of winning a LOT lower since you will have less front line soldiers. And for those people who prefer to win as a pose to just get kills (such as myself), most snipers are worthless.
a sniper probably saved your life once and you never noticed itkiller21 wrote:
Snipers are as useful as a nipple on a male. Seriously, snipers do not affect a game one way or the other. Probably the most useless kit.
ex: you were capping a flag, an enemy was slowly approaching your position.. BAM headshot the guy is dead..killed by a sniper far far away.. you never noticed it but with the help of that sniper, you took that flag and helped the team
Snipers are usefull for killing enemy snipers