BF2S Forums spare the life of convicted murderer Stan "Tookie" Williams. or NOT

I have heard of the case, but only remotely, as I don't live in the US. I don't support the death penalty, but if one is convicted the penalty should be enforced. And if the penalty happens to be death..well, bad for you.

25 years on death row is a long time, but I have just heard recently of some cases in which the "convict" was released due to new DNA evidence ( which wasn't around in the 80's ).  So if there is doubt, why not try to stay alive until the evidence in your case can be checked out with state-of-the-art CSI equipment ?

But I doubt that is the case with Mr Williams.

And by the way, writing children's books and getting nominated for the nobel peace prize doesn't make up for four murders...if death is the legally "appropriate" punishment here, then so be it.

Krappyappy wrote:

now this has the potential to be a meaty discussion.

firstly, the only motivation for capital punishment is a twisted sense of vengeance that it gives to the family of the  murder victim. you can't bring the victim back, so what does killing the murder really accomplish, besides saving the government a lifetime of prison expense?

Tax payers dollars is what you save! so what if he's written books. the only people i can see reading those books are DARE officers to 5th graders. everybody forgets all that information by the time they're in high school. hell i did. and i had a blast ^_^.

kill em.

Last edited by S4INT05 (2005-12-08 11:25:39)

Capital punishment may not be right.  As mentioned before it mainly only gives the victims friends and family a sick sense of justice 'revenge'.  However, it is the better alternative in my eyes.  Having tax payers foot the bill for the lifetime incarceration of a person who has had such a low regard for human life isn't fair to the rest of us.

Now for a little quote from a book i used to know something about as a kid.  'an eye for an eye'  it comes from the bible.  Now christians are a (hmmm searches for the word) ...  Well i just can't decide what to say about christians.  Alot preach forgiveness yet most i've known believe in the death penalty.  My parents and our president among them.  It's interesting that the more religious a person becomes the less tolerant they seem to be.

I for one believe in the addage an eye for an eye.  Our justice system does in some cases get things wrong.  Innocent people DO get executed for things they didn't do.  That is a damn shame.  I would hope that would never happen to me or any of my friends, but it happens.  With science were it is today i would expect those mistakes to become less and less. 

In the case of this...crip founder...well he's guilty of alot of things.  Many of which he wasn't even put on trial for.  Gang life is a form of organized crime.  If he was indeed a founder of the crips he should be tried  for founding an organized crime syndicate.  Now IF he was actually not guilty of those four deaths.  How many other deaths do you think he ordered in his tenure as a gang leader?  The man regardless of his attempts, be them true or superficial, to make a better person of himself has commited a crime been tried convicted and sentenced.  The fact that it's taken this long to put him to death is in itself a tragedy to the justice system.

One last thought.   Do you think that these 'changes' he's made would have actually taken place if he hadn't been caught and put in prison?

[Edit]  Tarasque you couldn't have put it in such plainer words.  The family of the victims should be the ones to dirty their hands with it.   However, is it the families that sought the death penalty or the lawyers?

Last edited by WormGuts (2005-12-08 11:56:36)

Oh creeping death just to let you know.  Gang members DO read books.  Unfortunately, most of them don't learn to read until they are in prison.

I firmly belive it's our responsebility to give back to those less fortunate. We as a sosiety thrive on the missfortunes of others. Instead of giving them tools to help them selves we lock them upp or put their head on a pole. Its easy isnt it? Sombody does a crime, badabim badabom lets just put em in jail.

The criminal is in my eyes a victim, victim of our faliures as a society. Our refusal to se the chain of events that made the crime and blame it on a trivial concept as evil.

Give the criminal a chance.. hell give him what he need to make amends by whatever he can to create somthing posetive with his life. Take away his anger, take away his fustration and give him time to realise what he has done. For a man with only hatred in his heart it's difficult to identefy with his sence of regret and wish to change. All he sees is steel bars and the system that didnt strech out a finger for him in the first place.

Everybody needs help at some point and it's upp to uss to hand it out. Not just kill em, killing creates more negativity. Negativity spreeds as ripple effect, spread the love instead and you will be hit by a wave of posetivety instead.

Last words: Nothing is just black and white


Peace out!

Last edited by Tarasque (2005-12-08 13:32:55)

Love allways work m8, just it's results arent allways in your face right there and then as with the counterpart. Love fuels more love any day.

And pleace dont confuse the consious act of crime with a personality dissorder or sosiopath tendensies, thats an task for the psyciatric branch.

Try to se the chain of events that leads upp to the person commiting criminal acts. It often starts in childhood due to neglect in various form. Some pull trough and make a deacent life for them selves against all odds, but unfortunatly everyone isnt that recourcefull.

Freeloaders, guess you can call them that. Example: Underprivelidged, like your african americans. They build you damn contry as slaves. Opression, rape, rasism, hate, ignorance and dare i meantion the fine american institution the KKK, they endured all this.. They are a product of years of white supremacy thinking, then suddenly somone shouts free the slaves end racism lets just stack em upp in ghettos and let them selfdestruct.
These are truely victims, showing their face further down the dirt just fuels more hatred and desperation. 

Yes there needs to be an correctional system, but the methods have to change and istead of kicking them furter down, try helping them upp. Problem is this takes resources and a bit of effort from our powers to be, so instead we give them as you say a phD in crime by just locking them upp. Why? its easy and suposedly cheaper.

And no you cant implant a system of love in our criminals. Cant implement somthing thats allready there, break down their walls of negativity so you can get back to the real man again.

Just have any other skin colour then white, have a record and be in the vicinity of a murder and your pretty mutch fucked

Would be more at ease with capital punisment if there was a way to tell with 100% certanty that the criminal is guilty and execution put out right there and then. And preferably carried out by the ones offended.

Dosent work unfotunatly

Other states are trying to do away with Capital Punishment,,,,,,Mine Put in an Express Lane.

^DD^GRiPS wrote:

Tarasque wrote:

be in the vicinity of a murder and your pretty mutch fucked

Thats just my point how easy is it to stay out of that circumstance, I can honestly say anyone I know wouldnt murder someone when I was "in the vacinity", i hope anyways.

well unless your god you cant.

Lets say you boned you neigbours wife. Lets say the dude dies suspisiously. Lets say your unfortunate to be the only black dude in the neighbourhood. Lets say somone saw and heard you balling her a few days before. Police starts asking questions and you got no alibi.

All you where doing while he died was sittn at home mastrubating to freakydeaky goat porn, and you sure as hell cant admit to that.

Enjoy san quentin m8

Tarasque, did you know they teach classes in prison? did you know that they do send the head cases to psychiatric care centers?

Tarasque wrote:

Love allways work m8, just it's results arent allways in your face right there and then as with the counterpart. Love fuels more love any day.

And pleace dont confuse the consious act of crime with a personality dissorder or sosiopath tendensies, thats an task for the psyciatric branch.

Try to se the chain of events that leads upp to the person commiting criminal acts. It often starts in childhood due to neglect in various form. Some pull trough and make a deacent life for them selves against all odds, but unfortunatly everyone isnt that recourcefull.

Freeloaders, guess you can call them that. Example: Underprivelidged, like your african americans. They build you damn contry as slaves. Opression, rape, rasism, hate, ignorance and dare i meantion the fine american institution the KKK, they endured all this.. They are a product of years of white supremacy thinking, then suddenly somone shouts free the slaves end racism lets just stack em upp in ghettos and let them selfdestruct.
These are truely victims, showing their face further down the dirt just fuels more hatred and desperation. 

Yes there needs to be an correctional system, but the methods have to change and istead of kicking them furter down, try helping them upp. Problem is this takes resources and a bit of effort from our powers to be, so instead we give them as you say a phD in crime by just locking them upp. Why? its easy and suposedly cheaper.

And no you cant implant a system of love in our criminals. Cant implement somthing thats allready there, break down their walls of negativity so you can get back to the real man again.

Totally WRONG Tried failed wont ever work EVER these people are  Aninamls Young boys think "Rape" is a Growing up thing, a right of passage to becoming a man. The Welfare state and Projects only prepetuate it.
The more babies they have the more money they get so they practice Capitalism in thier own way and crank kids out. They have kids as young as 13 and 12 years old. They lose them , abandon, abuse thier offspring. Toddlers are out in the street at 2am Forget it

They ARE SCUM. I watched it happen till i couldnt take it and move to VT. PS they all Vote Dem for the promised free ride.

CreepingDeath wrote:

TrevorP wrote:

This is a very Biased Poll look at the top options:

No . . plan and simple kill the bastard
Yeah . .I'll let this mass murder go

First off if he was white hed be off of death row in a heartbeat...I mean the guy is obviously doing good now...he's been nominated for the NOBLE PEACE PRIZE

I would take it that your a african american . I can tell this by your statment.
  There has been so many white guys on death row and died. A famious one was Gary Gilmore. They even made a movie about him "executioner's song". Which I am sure they will about this guy someday soon after he gone. In about 4 days. It'll be one ill miss for sure. An by the poll 232 people have viewed this, read this, okay give or take a few that have kept coming back but lets say 150 people have viewed this post/poll with only a total of 22 people voting on it. 17 for killing the bastard and only 5 that say I'll let this mass murder go.I can tell not many really care about this mass murder.
  And you say its biase for me saying the part about killing the mass murder off. Whatelse is it called when you kill four people? For your info we call anyone that kills over 3 people a mass murderer.
Another great movie I have always loved and enjoyed was Citizen X. Its about a russian mass murder. A guy that killed over 25 -30 years 52 people. He was caught, he was tried and the way they showed it, basically was walked down to a cell with a slanted floor, asked to take off his glasses, a guard pulls his pistol out and shoots this asshole on the back of the head. I think anyone and I mean anyone black white spanish, whatever if you commit a crime like murder, child molestion, rape and they know for sure caught red handed or with DNA. These people need to be shot in the back of the head. NO questions asked. No years on death row. No prison time, just a 45mm in the back of the head.
  Last but not lease im ashamed that they would put this guy next to 1979 Mother Teresa, 1964 Martin Luther King, 2001 United Nations, Kofi Annan. He started a gang to protect his city. A violent gang, dealing drugs. doing whatever they wanted untilt hey got caught. Hmm who started the guarding angels? I dont know, is this a violent gang or a gang that protects our neighborhood from guys like his gang? He should of wrote these books before he started his gang. NOW CRY me a river that they are going to kill this guy off.To bad they dont use the electric chair anymore. MAKE IT PAINFUL for him.

Actually, I didn't like the wording of your poll either, but I wasn't going to say anything.  And I am not african-american...