Then they win.Jenkinsbball wrote:
Terrorists don't deserve rights. They deserve to be beheaded and have it broadcasted all over the internet and cable news networks. When someone kills an american while trying to ransom him/her for one of their memeber(s), we should take the people they want into an open field and kill them the same way they kill our captured civilians/GIs... and televise it for everyone to see we're sick of their uncivilized bullshit.
How is locking up enemies of the US and our Allies is a betrayal? Gitmo ain't torture. However being a prison guard there is. Look at any Arab state prison. Those guys in Gitmo are getting far better treatment compared to any prison in their own country. Punished by the European Union? How has the European Union really helped us in the first place? England has, but France & Germany have been against the US all along. You are fooling yourself if you think that any country granting the CIA/NSA access to airspace or airports is getting nothing in return. I've got more news for you. The Muslim community probably never respected you guys anyways. I don't find these "secret prisons" sickening. Do you know what I find sickening? People who fly planes into buildings, People who strap bombs to their sons and daughters, People who videotape beheadings and then broadcast them on the Internet..... If the majority of your country thinks the way you do, then the US doesn't want your help.CameronPoe wrote:
This US administration has betrayed the trust of several of its allies and must pay the price. Deplorable behaviour like this disgusts me - operating under the noses of friendly governments to carry out interrogation and, if Gitmo is anything to go by, torture. This betrayal of trust must be punished by the European Union - no longer should we turn a blind eye to CIA & military flights passing through our airports. The EU should publicly decry the behaviour of the United States to restore some respect we may have lost among the muslim community and the middle east and to restore respect in and value to OUR independent sovereignty. What a kick in the teeth. Not surprising at all but sickening all the same. The EU should be far more reluctant and less forthcoming in helping the USA in future, at least while this administration runs the show.
Living in Gitmo in many cases provides a higher standard of living than does their country of origin. In fact, many have pleaded with officials NOT to be sent back to their home country. On that same point, I read a recent article about Palistinian teens who purposefully sought to get arrested and jailed in Israel in order to escape the rigid life in their own place.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Look at any Arab state prison. Those guys in Gitmo are getting far better treatment compared to any prison in their own country. Punished by the European Union? How has the European Union really helped us in the first place? England has, but France & Germany have been against the US all along.
France and Germany aren't AGAINST the U.S., they are anti-U.S. expansionist policy. There is a difference. Or are you one of those people who think that if they don't agree with the U.S. on every little thing they are our enemy?Obadiah wrote:
Living in Gitmo in many cases provides a higher standard of living than does their country of origin. In fact, many have pleaded with officials NOT to be sent back to their home country. On that same point, I read a recent article about Palistinian teens who purposefully sought to get arrested and jailed in Israel in order to escape the rigid life in their own place.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Look at any Arab state prison. Those guys in Gitmo are getting far better treatment compared to any prison in their own country. Punished by the European Union? How has the European Union really helped us in the first place? England has, but France & Germany have been against the US all along.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-09-07 11:57:30)
No. I do not think that if another state disagrees with the US it is an enemy. However if the other country is trading things with an enemy for say oil (like France, Germany and Russia were) while denying it, then yea.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Yeah, many have pleaded not to be sent back. I don't know about you, but I would much rather live in a bathroom-stall sized cage than anywhere in the world. Oh yeah, and you have no freedom. People with guns constantly are watching you. But, to put it in perspective, the U.S. has announced recently that they WILL abide by Geneva Convention standards in regards to human rights. At least that means no sleep/meal depravation. Maybe they might get clean shitters now too. Sounds like Club Med to me. C'mon, please.
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2006-09-07 12:10:28)
According to you?IG-Calibre wrote:
The essential rules of international humanitarian law
Persons who do not or can no longer take part in the hostilities are entitled to respect..........................
People are innocent until proved guilty - civilians snatched by US squads and whisked off to secret jails to be tortured are "suspected" terrorists .........
Obviously because you just made up your own convention, if you really want to get all the countries to sign it.IG-Calibre wrote:
WTF does that even mean? are you trying to communicate some thought that is rattling around in that head of yours?
Who is they? The CIA? Yeah....oh you're talking about some other group, interesting, thats not what this thread is about, last time I checked.IG-Calibre wrote:
let's not forget how they conducted themselves in Abu Ghraib either
If they are enemies and are guilty of crimes then charge them and process them through the court system. You just can't hold people for years and not charge them with anything ( other than some bloke says their a terrorist ) - it's torture can you not get that into your thick head? further more US snatch squads lifting people off the streets of European city's and then taking them to torture them and hold them indefinitely in secret prison camps where there is no scrutinty of regulations. Also add to that the fact the victims have no representation; is not the action of a democratic elected/accountable government. With the added wire tapping scandal, you have the actions of despots and dictators. Open your eyes you bloody sheep, LOOK AT YOUR ADMINISTRATION!!DBBrinson1 wrote:
How is locking up enemies of the US and our Allies is a betrayal? Gitmo ain't torture. However being a prison guard there is. Look at any Arab state prison. Those guys in Gitmo are getting far better treatment compared to any prison in their own country. Punished by the European Union? How has the European Union really helped us in the first place? England has, but France & Germany have been against the US all along. You are fooling yourself if you think that any country granting the CIA/NSA access to airspace or airports is getting nothing in return. I've got more news for you. The Muslim community probably never respected you guys anyways. I don't find these "secret prisons" sickening. Do you know what I find sickening? People who fly planes into buildings, People who strap bombs to their sons and daughters, People who videotape beheadings and then broadcast them on the Internet..... If the majority of your country thinks the way you do, then the US doesn't want your help.CameronPoe wrote:
This US administration has betrayed the trust of several of its allies and must pay the price. Deplorable behaviour like this disgusts me - operating under the noses of friendly governments to carry out interrogation and, if Gitmo is anything to go by, torture. This betrayal of trust must be punished by the European Union - no longer should we turn a blind eye to CIA & military flights passing through our airports. The EU should publicly decry the behaviour of the United States to restore some respect we may have lost among the muslim community and the middle east and to restore respect in and value to OUR independent sovereignty. What a kick in the teeth. Not surprising at all but sickening all the same. The EU should be far more reluctant and less forthcoming in helping the USA in future, at least while this administration runs the show.
I suggest some remedial reading comprehension classes tbh. I'm not even going to bother replying to this gibberish, Put down the crack pipe. good dayAlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
According to you?IG-Calibre wrote:
The essential rules of international humanitarian law
Persons who do not or can no longer take part in the hostilities are entitled to respect..........................
People are innocent until proved guilty - civilians snatched by US squads and whisked off to secret jails to be tortured are "suspected" terrorists .........
The second and third one, yep they sure are, and thats why we have Geneva, but oh wait, Geneva specifically DOES NOT COVER terrorists and unlawful combatants, jesus christ did you not read any of my freaking posts?
And also "civilians snatched by US squads and whisked off to secret jails to be tortured are "suspected" terrorists ", what a horrible over generalization, there is no way that YOU can tell me for sure that they ARE or AREN'T terrorists, and neither can I, don't make assumptions like that. Its not very conducive to our arguement.Obviously because you just made up your own convention, if you really want to get all the countries to sign it.IG-Calibre wrote:
WTF does that even mean? are you trying to communicate some thought that is rattling around in that head of yours?Who is they? The CIA? Yeah....oh you're talking about some other group, interesting, thats not what this thread is about, last time I checked.IG-Calibre wrote:
let's not forget how they conducted themselves in Abu Ghraib either
Why what part is so bad, the fact that the Geneva convention specifically outlines who and who is not protected by it, and your the one who just MADE up the internation humanitarian law without any sources, you have quoted NOTHING, unlike my previous post, and you call my post gibberish, and you think I'm on crack. Ok just do the good ol dodge, most of you libs do it anyway (some cons do it too) but damnit if you don't have the maturity to actually answer my question just by blanketing it with a holier than thou attitude, well, your just a straight ass.IG-Calibre wrote:
I suggest some remedial reading comprehension classes tbh. I'm not even going to bother replying to this gibberish, Put down the crack pipe. good dayAlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
According to you?IG-Calibre wrote:
The essential rules of international humanitarian law
Persons who do not or can no longer take part in the hostilities are entitled to respect..........................
People are innocent until proved guilty - civilians snatched by US squads and whisked off to secret jails to be tortured are "suspected" terrorists .........
The second and third one, yep they sure are, and thats why we have Geneva, but oh wait, Geneva specifically DOES NOT COVER terrorists and unlawful combatants, jesus christ did you not read any of my freaking posts?
And also "civilians snatched by US squads and whisked off to secret jails to be tortured are "suspected" terrorists ", what a horrible over generalization, there is no way that YOU can tell me for sure that they ARE or AREN'T terrorists, and neither can I, don't make assumptions like that. Its not very conducive to our arguement.Obviously because you just made up your own convention, if you really want to get all the countries to sign it.IG-Calibre wrote:
WTF does that even mean? are you trying to communicate some thought that is rattling around in that head of yours?Who is they? The CIA? Yeah....oh you're talking about some other group, interesting, thats not what this thread is about, last time I checked.IG-Calibre wrote:
let's not forget how they conducted themselves in Abu Ghraib either
You can't put them on trial if they aren't a US citizen. Those people are in those prisons for a reason. I really don't see it as torture. Torture is being brutalized. If merely holding someone a prisoner is torture, then aren't the Hezzies guilty of torture (kidnapped Israeli Soldiers)? So then Israel is guilty too for their prisoners? How about the droves of criminal locked away for crimes? Torture? I think not. I seriously doubt that there are is no regulations or scrutiny at these "secret prisons". I have no proof that there isn't, but you have no proof that there is. In my opinion, these people (in the prisons) are not US citizens and do not deserve representation that the US citizen is afforded. Again, these people are not randomly plucked from the street.IG-Calibre wrote:
If they are enemies and are guilty of crimes then charge them and process them through the court system. You just can't hold people for years and not charge them with anything ( other than some bloke says their a terrorist ) - it's torture can you not get that into your thick head? further more US snatch squads lifting people off the streets of European city's and then taking them to torture them and hold them indefinitely in secret prison camps where there is no scrutinty of regulations. Also add to that the fact the victims have no representation; is not the action of a democratic elected/accountable government. With the added wire tapping scandal, you have the actions of despots and dictators. Open your eyes you bloody sheep, LOOK AT YOUR ADMINISTRATION!!
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2006-09-07 13:31:20)
Make sure you read all of that IG, if you disagree with that, than just go play in liberal land.DBBrinson1 wrote:
You can't put them on trial if they aren't a US citizen. Those people are in those prisons for a reason. I really don't see it as torture. Torture is being brutalized. If merely holding someone a prisoner is torture, then aren't the Hezzies guilty of torture (kidnapped Israeli Soldiers)? So then Israel is guilty too for their prisoners? How about the droves of criminal locked away for crimes? Torture? I think not. I seriously doubt that there are is no regulations or scrutiny at these "secret prisons". I have no proof that there isn't, but you have no proof that there is. In my opinion, these people (in the prisons) are not US citizens and do not deserve representation that the US citizen is afforded. Again, these people are not randomly plucked from the street.IG-Calibre wrote:
If they are enemies and are guilty of crimes then charge them and process them through the court system. You just can't hold people for years and not charge them with anything ( other than some bloke says their a terrorist ) - it's torture can you not get that into your thick head? further more US snatch squads lifting people off the streets of European city's and then taking them to torture them and hold them indefinitely in secret prison camps where there is no scrutinty of regulations. Also add to that the fact the victims have no representation; is not the action of a democratic elected/accountable government. With the added wire tapping scandal, you have the actions of despots and dictators. Open your eyes you bloody sheep, LOOK AT YOUR ADMINISTRATION!!
There is no wire tapping scandal. You have been brainwashed by the left media into thinking something is going on when it really isn't.
These are not the actions of a despot or dictator. These are the actions of a Country that was attacked and is defending itself and attempting to prevent further attacks. I just thank God that Kerry didn't win. He would have probably surrendered to Iraq. What would you do if you were the leader of a State attacked by a organization like the Talliban? Do nothing? Or maybe you would prefer launching rockets with no guidance systems into Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia? Or use every means possible to find those responsible and those who mean harm to your people?
Finally, This "Sheep's" eyes are open. They were opened on 9/11. My Country will no longer sit idle and wait for to be attacked.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2006-09-07 14:11:06)
Wow what a naive definition of torture most of the civilized world shares a wider definition of it than your narrow view (thank god). You say these people are held for a reason, why because some faceless CIA agent says their a terrorist? i've said it before and i'll say it again GTFO.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
Make sure you read all of that IG, if you disagree with that, than just go play in liberal land.DBBrinson1 wrote:
You can't put them on trial if they aren't a US citizen. Those people are in those prisons for a reason. I really don't see it as torture. Torture is being brutalized. If merely holding someone a prisoner is torture, then aren't the Hezzies guilty of torture (kidnapped Israeli Soldiers)? So then Israel is guilty too for their prisoners? How about the droves of criminal locked away for crimes? Torture? I think not. I seriously doubt that there are is no regulations or scrutiny at these "secret prisons". I have no proof that there isn't, but you have no proof that there is. In my opinion, these people (in the prisons) are not US citizens and do not deserve representation that the US citizen is afforded. Again, these people are not randomly plucked from the street.IG-Calibre wrote:
If they are enemies and are guilty of crimes then charge them and process them through the court system. You just can't hold people for years and not charge them with anything ( other than some bloke says their a terrorist ) - it's torture can you not get that into your thick head? further more US snatch squads lifting people off the streets of European city's and then taking them to torture them and hold them indefinitely in secret prison camps where there is no scrutinty of regulations. Also add to that the fact the victims have no representation; is not the action of a democratic elected/accountable government. With the added wire tapping scandal, you have the actions of despots and dictators. Open your eyes you bloody sheep, LOOK AT YOUR ADMINISTRATION!!
There is no wire tapping scandal. You have been brainwashed by the left media into thinking something is going on when it really isn't.
These are not the actions of a despot or dictator. These are the actions of a Country that was attacked and is defending itself and attempting to prevent further attacks. I just thank God that Kerry didn't win. He would have probably surrendered to Iraq. What would you do if you were the leader of a State attacked by a organization like the Talliban? Do nothing? Or maybe you would prefer launching rockets with no guidance systems into Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia? Or use every means possible to find those responsible and those who mean harm to your people?
Finally, This "Sheep's" eyes are open. They were opened on 9/11. My Country will no longer sit idle and wait for to be attacked.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2006-09-07 13:55:10)
For a country which has had numerous public lynchings as recently as the 1960's, you should probably understand that that stability, economic growth and overall good education can bring a population out of dark times. Not war and destruction, combined with depression and oppression. These are the conditions which breed such practices, because of human nature.... this is what creates the need for a scapegoat.negolien wrote:
Hey,
Ya how FUCKING DARE THEY!!!!!! I mean come on if we do stuff like that our enemies might disregard the Convention too. Before ya know it they would be beheading, Dragging dead soldiers thru the streets, Hanging our guys from bridges while burning them....
I wasn't defining torture. I was merely pointing out yet another flaw in your ideology. Where do you get off about being the moral authority on torture? Look at what Saddam and his children did to their own citizens. That was torture. I'd be willing to bet that the apprehender's government knew about his "snatching" and even authorized the US to do it. Where is your "rule of international law" when 9/11 happened? How about before that during the first attack on the WTC? Or the the attack on the USS Cole? Or the bombing of the Marine Barracks in Tripoli?IG-Calibre wrote:
Wow what a naive definition of torture most of the civilized world shares a wider definition of it than your narrow view (thank god). You say these people are held for a reason, why because some faceless CIA agent says their a terrorist? i've said it before and i'll say it again GTFO.
You say these people are there for a reason, well most people are in jail for a reason moron because they have committed a crime, which they have been convicted of through the criminal system. What fucking right does America have to be snatching people off streets and out of their houses in European citys at their whim to hold for years without charge? the rule of international law doesn't break down because 9/11 happened - much as Bush likes to think it gives him carte blanche for his administration to do as they like. I'm Born and raised in Northern Ireland mate and lived through internment so don't try and teach your granny to suck eggs, civilised society conducts its self with laws and regulations, checks and balances, I don't give a fuck about Israel or any other bullshit that can be discussed to death in their own threads. this thread is about US admitting that they are holding prisoners in secret prisons and breaking the Law's which up hold civilised society. stick with it or post your BS else where
Well, he's lied about torture, he's lied about the scret prisons, he's lied about the reasons for invading Iraq. What else would you like him to lie about?(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:
Lied about what? Secret Prisons? WMD? GET OVER THIS OLD, SMALL-MINDED THINKING!sergeriver wrote:
He lied before, impeach him. This is worse than someone getting a blow job.
We have this little thing, we hold on a very special pedestal. It's called National Security. Ever heard of it?
Clinton was waiting and waiting to hook up with his young intern, missing multiple occasions, when the CIA had him (OBL) in their sights to take him out. For the definition of intelligence, please stop comparing President Bush to President Clinton. Especially if you aren't American. *Pft* My God.
Forgive me Mr. US Marine if I touched your american feelings. I'm talking about Bush, not America, so what's the deal here? He did lie about that and so what's the problem? You know, everything the president of US does has to do with Argentina, Burma, France, and the fucking moon, so don't tell me such moronic comments, quoting a great thinker of our time.(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
9/11 was planned under Clinton's administration. If he wasn't too busy leaving stains on blue dresses perhaps something could have been done. So please don't bring Clinton up.Being an American, add-in a Honorably Discharged US Marine, I can say with out getting personal on your moronic comments, that have no facts, only your opinions, Pres. Bush has not lied about the topic at hand: Secret CIA prisons. What about them, has anything to do with you in Argentina I can't figure out, either.sergeriver wrote:
It's such a terrible thing someone having a blow job. It's better someone lying on big issues, forgetting about domestic ones, specially if you are american.
Getting a blow job on your first date=$40.00 and a good little slut.
Getting a blow job from Austin, TX to Denver, CO=$$250.00 in gas.
Getting a blow job in the Oval Office while not focusing on National Security and not taking out the mastermind to blow up multiple US buildings on 9/11=$$$ Priceless to the Al-Queda/Islamofascists
I don't care living in US. I go to buy some shit once in a while. But forget it. Thanks for the offer. Btw it's exclusive for americans to debate about what Bush is doing? I don't think it is. He is the president of "the leading country of the world", so as our leader we should be concerned about what the fuck Bush does or not.CreepingCharlie wrote:
I love how most of the people here who bash the US don't even live in the US. LOL! Wow why don't you become an American citizen and then lets talk about our government. Oh wait you can't. It will take years to become one and by then we might pass a law stating that No foreigners shall pass.(Like we need anymore) I'm sorry go back to your fucking country and worry about it rather than pick apart ours. What does having secret prisons (well not anymore) have to do about your country???? NOTHING!!