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2006-08-28 12:08:58
JdeFalconr
Lex Luthor, King of Australia
+72|6582|Sammamish, WA
Ooh I completely agree with this topic. Engineer is my most-played class, ever since the beginning of the game. Getting repair points is freaking difficult...10 in a round is nuts, 20 is insane.

What about this: give the Engineer either 1pt or 2pts for every time an object is fully repaired (as in brought back up to its max).

Or if not that, what if it was relative to the vehicle; for instance, if you repaired a jeep 50% of its health you'd get 2pts, or if you fixed up a tank 50% of its health you'd get another 2pts...or something like that. That would generate points at a much better rate, give an incentive to go around fixing stuff up, and make sure that things like tanks, APCs and commander toys get fixed up.

Also, the Engineer would then be recieving points on a scale similar to what support or medic recieves for their special abilities. Point-farming is, of course, a concern but no more than with any other class. Most importantly, if you compare the time it takes support or medic to gain points, it would bring the Engineer's time:points ratios more in line with what the other classes gain for their special abilities.

Comments?

Last edited by JdeFalconr (2006-08-28 12:11:59)

2006-08-28 12:10:03
kardinalios
Member
+7|6731|Greece

RasorX wrote:

And, to reiterate, repair bags are a very very bad idea, you may as well just take the Anti-tank class out of the game.  Imagine a tank sitting in a pile of 30 repair bags.
You are right,but to find 30 repair bags, you should play in "Only Eryx and Engineer" servers in Karkand.
And if the enginner have only 2 "fast" bags,to see 30 repair bags,15 people should play in Engineer kit.
Play Enginner and be out of the armor?I dont think so...

And kit bags have time before it dissapears.They dont be there forever if someone didnt take it.
If the time to dissapear the heal bag is 1 minute,the repair bag could dissapear in 30 secs.

So the armor isnt fixed all the time and very easily and the Engineer is not take repair points so hard!

Last edited by kardinalios (2006-08-28 12:14:01)

2006-08-28 12:14:33
Mr.Pieeater
Member
+116|6664|Cherry Pie
Technically you can't compare the Medic or the Support class with the Engineer. Simply because the engineer can't leave packs behind to repair other players vehicles, nor can he repair more than on vehicle at a time.  A medic can throw 4 packs into a group of hurt guys and get points galore!  And you can leave the packs sitting around for a long time and some guy walking by one will give you a resupply point randomly.
2006-08-28 12:22:10
=W=GeneralSherman
Banned
+83|6596

X3M*Selkie wrote:

and with the lousy firepower you have you don't want to be cought in a crossfire.
i dont know about u buit if u have both unlocks in engy u have great fire power.....u have a choice from a powerful pump shotty which with one shot to a head kills any kit....ive even gotten a few distance kills of around 80 feet.....u got the jackhammer auto shottie and u got the MP7 which is a great gun with like no recoil and if u know how to use it.....decent for distence shots


P.S. yes engy repair poinrts takes a while but i think heal points take the longest....atleast just as long because, like engy, u have to reheal someone to full health so if u want to get a heal point.....u need a minimum of 2 ppl which u have to hunt down and make them stop running from u despite ur team speak righting and ur shouts of 'medic here!' or what ever it is medics say i cant remember right now

Last edited by =W=GeneralSherman (2006-08-28 12:22:46)

2006-08-28 12:28:41
JdeFalconr
Lex Luthor, King of Australia
+72|6582|Sammamish, WA

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

Technically you can't compare the Medic or the Support class with the Engineer. Simply because the engineer can't leave packs behind to repair other players vehicles, nor can he repair more than on vehicle at a time.  A medic can throw 4 packs into a group of hurt guys and get points galore!  And you can leave the packs sitting around for a long time and some guy walking by one will give you a resupply point randomly.
I think the complaint, however, isn't in regards to leaving packs around but in how long it takes to acrue the engineer's repair points. The other complaint is that if you compare the rate of points-per-minute of special-skill points (heal pts. vs resupply pts. vs repair pts.) the engineer class's rate is dramatically less than the other two classes. This makes the engineer much less attractive of a kit choice.
2006-08-28 12:28:51
Jenkinsbball
Banned
+149|6588|USA bitches!
Repair points are bullsh!t. I've repaired tons of stuff and in all the time I've put in, I've gotten 3 repair points. I'll repair something with maybe 2-4 health bars to max and I get nothing. To get my Meritorious Service Medal, I'll need 262.2 years to get it because of how slow I am at getting them. Anything that would take you longer than 3 lifespans to do is the most ridiculous thing in existence.... and its just a game.
2006-08-28 12:38:48
dquinner
Member
+4|6534|Ireland
Does anyone know if u get repairs as a commander? I know you dont get repair points in a round as commander but if you repair something fully while commanding does it still count towards your overall number of repairs?
2006-08-28 12:41:06
JdeFalconr
Lex Luthor, King of Australia
+72|6582|Sammamish, WA

dquinner wrote:

Does anyone know if u get repairs as a commander? I know you dont get repair points in a round as commander but if you repair something fully while commanding does it still count towards your overall number of repairs?
From the BF2S Wiki:

The commander score is the sum of all commander points earned. The commander points are every point earned by a member of your team during your reign as commander divided by the total of living team members at the given time.

Kills with artillery will count towards you global kills and kills with the kit you are using but do not directly add points to your score.

After each round has finished the commander of the winning side will have his points for that round doubled.
http://wiki.bf2s.com/stats/scoring-system

So no, the only points you get are from your teammates or from kills.

Last edited by JdeFalconr (2006-08-28 12:41:48)

2006-08-28 12:45:38
Rec(+)n
Teh Hawtsawce
+4|6498
well, keep in mind that most of his points are probably from him being in a vehicle and him repairing other vehicles around him
2006-08-28 12:46:17
dquinner
Member
+4|6534|Ireland
I know all that but i got best repair while commanding on warlord but didnt get any points for it. I may check it out myself. Cheers anyway.
2006-08-28 12:55:11
URE_DED
BF2s US Server Admin
+76|6658|inside the recesses of your...
I just got Meritorious Badge this week so I know about repairs!  I'm still shocked I got the Expert repair badge at all earlier on. 

No, the TRAVESTY with the repair points is that you get ZERO CREDIT for repairing your own armor.  And I argue that is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT JOB OF AN ENGINEER - to armor whore and keeps his own armor alive.  A good armor whore as engineer is a tough foe. 

And we keep our commander from using up supply drops.  We repair each other of course.  But we stay alive.  You should get repair points for repairing your own unmanned armor.  It's just as valid as repairing it with a gunner sitting in there, thereby causing you to actually get repair points. 

If you could get repair points for repairing your own armor, I'd have 3 times as many repair points.  Sure, it can be exploited, but too bad, it makes sense, and the game can be exploited anyway.  Give engineers thier due: points for fixing themselves!!!!!  Amen????
2006-08-28 12:55:14
{uscm}Jyden
You likey leaky?
+433|6718|In You Endo- Stoke
Oh i feel the pain,i am currently working on my vet repair badge and its a pain in the ass.

I think sharqi is probally one the easier maps to get it on(on US) as all the assets get taken out quite often.

I think 2 repair points per asset should suffice,would speed the process up at least.
2006-08-28 13:00:16
URE_DED
BF2s US Server Admin
+76|6658|inside the recesses of your...

Jenkinsbball wrote:

Repair points are bullsh!t. I've repaired tons of stuff and in all the time I've put in, I've gotten 3 repair points. I'll repair something with maybe 2-4 health bars to max and I get nothing. To get my Meritorious Service Medal, I'll need 262.2 years to get it because of how slow I am at getting them. Anything that would take you longer than 3 lifespans to do is the most ridiculous thing in existence.... and its just a game.
You have to repair a fully damaged asset to get ONE POINT.  But often, the asset has NEGATIVE health - meaning you'll get a point and a half or even two points for repairing.  And also remember, all that fractional repair time makes it that much easier to get the next point.  Don't stop when you get your point - repair it all the way.

Last edited by URE_DED (2006-08-28 13:05:03)

2006-08-28 13:04:29
URE_DED
BF2s US Server Admin
+76|6658|inside the recesses of your...

{uscm}Jyden wrote:

Oh i feel the pain,i am currently working on my vet repair badge and its a pain in the ass.

I think sharqi is probally one the easier maps to get it on(on US) as all the assets get taken out quite often.

I think 2 repair points per asset should suffice,would speed the process up at least.
Here's the TIP guys: Low man - Full map Warlord servers.  15-20 players with a full size map take FOREVER and on that map in particular, SAS love to continual destroy the Insurgent assets.  Just go Insurgent and you'll get 10-15 repairs easy.  When SAS cap both back palace flags they continually blow the Insurgent assests. 

Sharqi is NOT good because to repair the US assets when MEC has the radio station you are a sitting duck.  On Warlord you can drive all the way to the back of the palace, usually undetected or drive to the palace and hop the outside wall, get in, and repair away.
2006-08-28 13:04:40
INCSOC
Member since 1984
+113|6719|Denver, CO

JdeFalconr wrote:

dquinner wrote:

Does anyone know if u get repairs as a commander? I know you dont get repair points in a round as commander but if you repair something fully while commanding does it still count towards your overall number of repairs?
From the BF2S Wiki:

The commander score is the sum of all commander points earned. The commander points are every point earned by a member of your team during your reign as commander divided by the total of living team members at the given time.

Kills with artillery will count towards you global kills and kills with the kit you are using but do not directly add points to your score.

After each round has finished the commander of the winning side will have his points for that round doubled.
http://wiki.bf2s.com/stats/scoring-system

So no, the only points you get are from your teammates or from kills.
Thats not what he asked... read his full question before you be a smart ass and post irrelevant information.
He already said that he knows that you don't get the points.

To answer your question dquinner, yes you do get the repairs.  I received my Veteran Repair repairing my assets while a commander and whiping out those pesky and very persistant SpecOps.

Last edited by INCSOC (2006-08-28 13:05:21)

2006-08-28 13:08:25
URE_DED
BF2s US Server Admin
+76|6658|inside the recesses of your...

INCSOC wrote:

JdeFalconr wrote:

dquinner wrote:

Does anyone know if u get repairs as a commander? I know you dont get repair points in a round as commander but if you repair something fully while commanding does it still count towards your overall number of repairs?
From the BF2S Wiki:

The commander score is the sum of all commander points earned. The commander points are every point earned by a member of your team during your reign as commander divided by the total of living team members at the given time.

Kills with artillery will count towards you global kills and kills with the kit you are using but do not directly add points to your score.

After each round has finished the commander of the winning side will have his points for that round doubled.
http://wiki.bf2s.com/stats/scoring-system

So no, the only points you get are from your teammates or from kills.
Thats not what he asked... read his full question before you be a smart ass and post irrelevant information.
He already said that he knows that you don't get the points.

To answer your question dquinner, yes you do get the repairs.  I received my Veteran Repair repairing my assets while a commander and whiping out those pesky and very persistant SpecOps.
To fully clarify, like you, I got my Vet Repair as commander so you get credit for repairs, but you don't get the team points so I don't think they improve your score any.  But yes, you get credit as far as awards go.

Last edited by URE_DED (2006-08-28 13:11:06)

2006-08-28 13:13:40
Psycho
Member since 2005
+44|6816|Kansas, USA

RasorX wrote:

Review:
Support 67 pph
Medic 90 pph
Engineer 3 pph
I agree that repair points are too hard to get, however your logic is flawed. You are assuming that a player playing as engineer is trying to get repair points just as much as a player playing as medic is trying to get heals/revives. I know that for me I am less likely to try for repair points than I am for heal/revive/resupply points. I don't know why ECR.RC has spent so much time as an engineer (I don't like the kit so much). Perhaps he just likes the auto shotgun. I only played the kit to get in my required time and repair points, even so I averaged almost 6 repair points per hour, twice what the #1 Engineer got.
2006-08-28 13:23:37
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|6762|Eastern PA

URE_DED wrote:

INCSOC wrote:

JdeFalconr wrote:

dquinner wrote:

Does anyone know if u get repairs as a commander? I know you dont get repair points in a round as commander but if you repair something fully while commanding does it still count towards your overall number of repairs?
From the BF2S Wiki:


http://wiki.bf2s.com/stats/scoring-system

So no, the only points you get are from your teammates or from kills.
Thats not what he asked... read his full question before you be a smart ass and post irrelevant information.
He already said that he knows that you don't get the points.

To answer your question dquinner, yes you do get the repairs.  I received my Veteran Repair repairing my assets while a commander and whiping out those pesky and very persistant SpecOps.
To fully clarify, like you, I got my Vet Repair as commander so you get credit for repairs, but you don't get the team points so I don't think they improve your score any.  But yes, you get credit as far as awards go.
And those repairs that you earn as commander show up in your global totals.
2006-08-28 13:28:00
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6776|Salt Lake City

I agree fully.  I was at a LAN party on Saturday.  When my friend and I are together we generally try to armor up together, and both go as engineers to try and keep each other repaired.  Also, if there was only one armored vehicle I would jump is as a gunner and get out and repair as needed.  After 10 hours of game play, and 85% of that time being played as engineer, I had only earned about 20 repair points for the entire day.  It's rediculous how much repair is required to get a point, and how long it takes for a full repair to happen.
2006-08-28 13:31:24
cheshiremoe
Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow
+50|6749
I think this goes hand in hand with the points value of distroying the assets.  In my oppinion Special Ops should get more pts for destroying the assets as well as more points for fixing them not 1 pt for either.  I would say for how long it takes 4 pts would be decent and 2 for armor repair.  It is two easy for the commander to repair them with a crate, does not give enough pts and (on most maps) to far out of the way to make it worth while for enginers or Special Ops to want to deal with the commander assets most of the time.
2006-08-28 13:33:50
jsnipy
...
+3,276|6562|...

dquinner wrote:

Does anyone know if u get repairs as a commander? I know you dont get repair points in a round as commander but if you repair something fully while commanding does it still count towards your overall number of repairs?
you get repairs in ur stats but you wont get score in the round
2006-08-28 13:35:34
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6802

There's a simple logic behind this and I think EA got it right.

Medics and Support people can only get teamwork points using their packs. Reviving someone or giving someone ammo helps you very little in you killing more people and getting combat points yourself.

Engineers on the other hand can repair a damaged tank which they would otherwise have to spend minutes waiting for, they get +1 point for their repair, and then continue on with their armor rape which yields far more points than medics or support people can get.
2006-08-28 13:39:37
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|6762|Eastern PA

Psycho wrote:

RasorX wrote:

Review:
Support 67 pph
Medic 90 pph
Engineer 3 pph
I agree that repair points are too hard to get, however your logic is flawed. You are assuming that a player playing as engineer is trying to get repair points just as much as a player playing as medic is trying to get heals/revives. I know that for me I am less likely to try for repair points than I am for heal/revive/resupply points. I don't know why ECR.RC has spent so much time as an engineer (I don't like the kit so much). Perhaps he just likes the auto shotgun. I only played the kit to get in my required time and repair points, even so I averaged almost 6 repair points per hour, twice what the #1 Engineer got.
To echo (somewhat) what Psycho said, I don't think ECR.RC has spent all that much time actually repairing assets/team vehicles. I used the same calculations for my stats (I have a hair under 100 hrs as engineer and 678 repair pts) and I've averaged 7 pph. I would say that ECR.RC is not the best example to use in this instance, because it seems his/her playing style is not necessarily team focused. If I earned repair points at the same rate as I do now, and had the same play time as ECR.RC I would have ~7-8000 pts. The style of play really matters. However, in comparison with other top ranked "team" class players, your point with regards to the diminished earning rate of engineers is certainly more than valid.
2006-08-28 13:41:24
URE_DED
BF2s US Server Admin
+76|6658|inside the recesses of your...

GotMex? wrote:

There's a simple logic behind this and I think EA got it right.

Medics and Support people can only get teamwork points using their packs. Reviving someone or giving someone ammo helps you very little in you killing more people and getting combat points yourself.

Engineers on the other hand can repair a damaged tank which they would otherwise have to spend minutes waiting for, they get +1 point for their repair, and then continue on with their armor rape which yields far more points than medics or support people can get.
That's MY point: engineers don't get credit for 80% of their repairs because they are repairing themselves, which I think is totally valid and helps the team tremendously.  But they have nothing to show for it.  They DON'T get the "+1 repair and then continue with the armor rape".  You have to have some sucker teammate sitting the armor doing nothing for you to get credit and then you hope he doesn't just run off with your armor.  At which point you wish you were Spec Ops so you could C4 his noob butt.
2006-08-28 13:45:44
kardinalios
Member
+7|6731|Greece

GotMex? wrote:

There's a simple logic behind this and I think EA got it right.

Medics and Support people can only get teamwork points using their packs. Reviving someone or giving someone ammo helps you very little in you killing more people and getting combat points yourself.

Engineers on the other hand can repair a damaged tank which they would otherwise have to spend minutes waiting for, they get +1 point for their repair, and then continue on with their armor rape which yields far more points than medics or support people can get.
You forgot something pal.
2 Eryx from a long distance blows the Lav...
You dont have the time to stop or go back-repair and continue...

Last edited by kardinalios (2006-08-28 13:47:04)

 

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