People do.MorbidFetus wrote:
On a seperate note, why don't people bitch about unlimited medic and ammo bags? Every time the mine/more subject comes up someone pipes in how unrealistic they are in the game. Medic and ammo bags should be limited to five. These items should be able to be replenished by other medic/support players and supply crates.
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http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=39911MorbidFetus wrote:
On a seperate note, why don't people bitch about unlimited medic and ammo bags? Every time the mine/more subject comes up someone pipes in how unrealistic they are in the game. Medic and ammo bags should be limited to five. These items should be able to be replenished by other medic/support players and supply crates.
People love me already for this.There are some real good ideas hidden in the depths of this flame war....and I had sooo much fun!
But please,not like this in here.
so in rl medics all of a sudden forget how to patch someone up?MorbidFetus wrote:
On a seperate note, why don't people bitch about unlimited medic and ammo bags? Every time the mine/more subject comes up someone pipes in how unrealistic they are in the game. Medic and ammo bags should be limited to five. These items should be able to be replenished by other medic/support players and supply crates.
i think medic and ammo reloading speed should be doubled for supply crates and when holding the bag. throwing the bag should take your whole bar and act as a supply crate, healing or reloading everyone in the vicinity. when it is used up, your bar beings to recharge. certain ammo shouldnt be available from the bag, either. at rockets, vehicle ammo (all), grenades (all), explosives (mines, clays, c4), and mg ammo. all those r to big and should only come in supply crates. main bases should also have a reload/heal center that can be accessed once a minute but only by your team. it can be destroyed with 2 c4, and you cant shoot from inside it, and you get kicked out when youre fully reloaded or healed. aircraft cant use it (they use strip/pad), but land vehicles can.
Turn tk on claymores and I'd be happy, at least you would have to place them strategically and not in the nearest choke point/flag.
Yes, I am a troll because I have a differing opinion...daes wrote:
i guess u missed the trolls stay away in the topic.
Why shouldn't it be? People play Spec Ops for C4, Medic for heals/revives, Engy for repair... When I'm US on Sharqi, I spawn as Sniper for the sole means of "spamming" claymores in the TV Station. God forbid I try and defend my teams' most valuable flag....daes wrote:
sniper is now played by people who use it for the claymores...
Well, bullet spam is when I see someone shooting at me a lot. Get my drift?daes wrote:
spam is when i see claymores all around a flag or narrow area. maybe ill disarm them by running around them into the line of a fucking tank which isnt being dealt with cause my whole team is sniper and support, and the armor is spawn camping. or not.
squad chat/team chat means i have to stop and type, exposing me to fire and the delay i need to type the sentence. voip only works for your squad. read again.
No, I don't need to read again. I only edited my comment because I feared someone couldn't put together 2+2. Looks like I was right.
I agree with the fact that people should try to find alternate routes, and not take the predictable path. However, what I am seeing more and more of is not just one or two people laying down claymores, but 6 or 7 on an 8 man team. God forbid you get into a palace fight on Warlord these days. Everyone on one, or both, teams will switch to clays. I know this isn't always true, but it is more common. One thing we've done on our server to cut down on it is this. We have FF turned off, but FF for mines/clays turned on. This allows teammates to trigger mines/clays, but they don't take any damage, so no TK. It seems to work pretty well. It helps to not have a guaranteed kill for every claymore. As far as switching to engy and disarming them, well, good luck. I have no problem with mines, but getting behind a claymore is a stroke of luck.
Last edited by bEAv3D (2006-08-19 13:18:37)
Bad analogy. Running out of ammo does not mean someone forgot how to shoot.daes wrote:
so in rl medics all of a sudden forget how to patch someone up?
healing is an ability.MorbidFetus wrote:
Bad analogy. Running out of ammo does not mean someone forgot how to shoot.daes wrote:
so in rl medics all of a sudden forget how to patch someone up?
So is shooting my friend.daes wrote:
healing is an ability.MorbidFetus wrote:
Bad analogy. Running out of ammo does not mean someone forgot how to shoot.daes wrote:
so in rl medics all of a sudden forget how to patch someone up?
Sometimes it's inevitable. If one wants to cap the Palace/TV Station, they should be willing to accept a few claymore deaths. The simple solution is to make them destructable.bEAv3D wrote:
I agree with the fact that people should try to find alternate routes, and not take the predictable path. However, what I am seeing more and more of is not just one or two people laying down claymores, but 6 or 7 on an 8 man team. God forbid you get into a palace fight on Warlord these days.
Can't "heal" someone without bandages and whatnot.daes wrote:
healing is an ability.
Those times when you kill a sniper only to instantly blow up is where you made the mistake of coming in too close.Mekstizzle wrote:
...those times where you kill a sniper only to instantly blow up as soon as you move. It'll be like C4 traps, you have to be alive and alert to get the kills. Heaps more skill involved in that, then the fire and forget status as it is right now.
A class with an assault rifle or a shotgun always tries to mow the sniper down in close-combat,that's what they are used to do.
Now the sniper is not a pussy who stays away from the battle,he just uses his weapon on the optimal range(Stealthy loner who excels at the long range kill).He lacks the firepower in closecombat.
A smart warrior places his opponent always into an environment that he can control.
The sniper does it by staying away,the close combat guys rush in.
Now the sniper takes countermeasures by limiting your ability to get to your optimal killing range and mow him down,that's where the claymores come into play.
You gotta take him out without triggering them,that means adapting your strategy to his countermeasures.
Now if the clays would disappear the moment you mowed down the sniper - you don't have to adapt to anything.A fair amount of time where the claymores stay is justified,in real life they would sit there forever,even if you would doublekill the sniper-zombie.
But like I explained before - the fladradius is 25 meters.Take out the sniper on midrange,watch out for claymores and inch your way into the flagradius.
I've capped claymore-infested flags myself,but I had the sniper's advantage of having a scope.
Last edited by Mj.Blindfisch (2006-08-19 13:36:00)
I never really used them to Spam but I normally just lay them out to protect my six. FOV with the scope isn't that good. While I do enjoy the sniper kit I think that claymores should be destructible. if only by another explosive, all the better. I do like the Idea of being able to mark them too, But we all know how well that worked even for our own team mates pre 1.21 days. (perhaps mark and notify an engineer automatically that something needs to be disarmed) Its not really like we can depend on the camouflage to hide us. or a .50 cal round to kill in one shot. Although I agree its kind of disappointing to see 6-8 Snipers laying down 5-10 claymores all over the place around one flag.
That's a shit reply. Fucking hell it doesn't answer anything i don't want to pick it apart to tell you why you are wrong. I said:Mj.Blindfisch wrote:
Those times when you kill a sniper only to instantly blow up is where you made the mistake of coming in too close.Mekstizzle wrote:
...those times where you kill a sniper only to instantly blow up as soon as you move. It'll be like C4 traps, you have to be alive and alert to get the kills. Heaps more skill involved in that, then the fire and forget status as it is right now.
A class with an assault rifle or a shotgun always tries to mow the sniper down in close-combat,that's what they are used to do.
Now the sniper is not a pussy who stays away from the battle,he just uses his weapon on the optimal range(Stealthy loner who excels at the long range kill).He lacks the firepower in closecombat.
A smart warrior places his opponent always into an environment that he can control.
The sniper does it by staying away,the close combat guys rush in.
Now the sniper takes countermeasures by limiting your ability to get to your optimal killing range and mow him down,that's where the claymores come into play.
You gotta take him out without triggering them,that means adapting your strategy to his countermeasures.
Now if the clays would disappear the moment you mowed down the sniper - you don't have to adapt to anything.A fair amount of time where the claymores stay is justified,in real life they would sit there forever,even if you would doublekill the sniper-zombie.
But like I explained before - the fladradius is 25 meters.Take out the sniper on midrange,watch out for claymores and inch your way into the flagradius.
I've capped claymore-infested flags myself,but I had the sniper's advantage of having a scope.
What's wrong with claymores dissapearing as soon as a sniper died. The only response in your post about that was:
If this game was based on realism, there wouldn't be this problem in the first place don't even think about using the realism card.A fair amount of time where the claymores stay is justified,in real life they would sit there forever,even if you would doublekill the sniper-zombie.
And why the fuck do you type in orange.
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2006-08-19 13:47:13)
I rather liked it.Mekstizzle wrote:
That's a shit reply.
It all kinda makes sense to me as it represents a relatively fair scenario for sniper vs assault guy.
I also stated in my post that when you were able to just rush in,mow him down and the mines dissappear instantly you wouldn't have to adapt to anything,you would just do your charge in and fire routine.
If the game was based on realism the vehicles just would pwn everything,the snipers could shoot 800 instead of 430 meters and kill instantly with body shots and you would still have the claymore problem,this time with tripwires and a killing range of up to 50 meters.Mekstizzle wrote:
If this game was based on realism, there wouldn't be this problem in the first place don't even think about using the realism card.
I'm not playing the realism card,I'm making up rules for a game so that it becomes fair for everybody.
Because I'm an egocentrical Sniper-Ballerina.Mekstizzle wrote:
And why the fuck do you type in orange.
Last edited by Mj.Blindfisch (2006-08-19 14:08:00)
Good thread and good post; I think you're right on the money here.
Course I'm a dedicated "gaymore whore" to some people here so of course I'd say that (nearly 7,000 kills and climbing) but they're just misguided and didn't get enough attention from mommy when they were widdle boys
Course I'm a dedicated "gaymore whore" to some people here so of course I'd say that (nearly 7,000 kills and climbing) but they're just misguided and didn't get enough attention from mommy when they were widdle boys
I find claymore whoring a lame / boring way to play but claymore whores don't really piss me off unless FF is off. The fact that they are indestructable and cannot be destroyed by nades / c4 / artillary is fustrating but I don't find claywhores as bad as nade spammers.
let's compare claymore spamming to every other questionable tactic I can think of:
Medics healing themselves: You kill the medic before he gets cover. if you're having a fight with a medic and he actually tries to run and heal himself he will mostly die before reaching cover. If he's behind cover you have to flank, nade, or get in a headshot. In other words: perfectly avoidable.
Supports spamming grenades: They are exposing themself in every way: they have to put away their gun, they make a lot of noise ("GRENADE! GET AMMO HERE! *BOOM* GRENADE! etc.") and they are an easy target for any other infantry. One well placed nade back can defeat him and nades can easily be avoided.
C4: Differs from claymores because the specops guy has to be there to see you himself. Also the range in which you take critical damage is smaller, I believe.
Claymores: You place an explosive device that has a relatively long range somewhere, and it cannot be removed. Even after the snipers death it stays around for a while. You have to sacrifice a teammate or do the revive tactic just to beat it and having multiple claymores already makes this undoable. Sometimes it is not possible to avoid a claymore or it's impossible to see it without it blowing up in your face. As opposed to C4, the sniper has no worries about his claymores killing enemies as he can be on the other side of the map actually sniping, although most don't seem to get round to that part.
It is an undefeatable tactic and yet incredibly easy to use. a base should be guarded by living things that can be defeated, not an unavoidable obstacle. Every other tactic can be beaten, yet yours can't. So what if the flag radius is so many meters? hide two of them in the right place and they're going to run into your clays. And on the urban maps there are no detours to a flag, you get maybe 2 or 3 ways in. Would you want to pick one at random and see if you get lucky? and don't tell me to use grappling hooks or whatever in SF, I find it rediculous that we should have to go to so much effort to avoid something like claymores.
They require no skill, on urban maps they are unavoidable, they were implemented in a patch and I doubt that it was Dice's intention to make the Palace in Warlord completely unplayable when it starts filling up due to 6-10 claymores guarding the room in which the flag is in. Such places are now pretty much hermetically sealed, making the game a stalemate where anyone who tries to rush in gets claymored. If you want to guard a flag, get a gun and wait for enemies. Plant C4 and hide nearby. Get in a good position. But don't throw your indestructable doomstick and then turn your back on the flag to go kill people somewhere else.
Medics healing themselves: You kill the medic before he gets cover. if you're having a fight with a medic and he actually tries to run and heal himself he will mostly die before reaching cover. If he's behind cover you have to flank, nade, or get in a headshot. In other words: perfectly avoidable.
Supports spamming grenades: They are exposing themself in every way: they have to put away their gun, they make a lot of noise ("GRENADE! GET AMMO HERE! *BOOM* GRENADE! etc.") and they are an easy target for any other infantry. One well placed nade back can defeat him and nades can easily be avoided.
C4: Differs from claymores because the specops guy has to be there to see you himself. Also the range in which you take critical damage is smaller, I believe.
Claymores: You place an explosive device that has a relatively long range somewhere, and it cannot be removed. Even after the snipers death it stays around for a while. You have to sacrifice a teammate or do the revive tactic just to beat it and having multiple claymores already makes this undoable. Sometimes it is not possible to avoid a claymore or it's impossible to see it without it blowing up in your face. As opposed to C4, the sniper has no worries about his claymores killing enemies as he can be on the other side of the map actually sniping, although most don't seem to get round to that part.
It is an undefeatable tactic and yet incredibly easy to use. a base should be guarded by living things that can be defeated, not an unavoidable obstacle. Every other tactic can be beaten, yet yours can't. So what if the flag radius is so many meters? hide two of them in the right place and they're going to run into your clays. And on the urban maps there are no detours to a flag, you get maybe 2 or 3 ways in. Would you want to pick one at random and see if you get lucky? and don't tell me to use grappling hooks or whatever in SF, I find it rediculous that we should have to go to so much effort to avoid something like claymores.
They require no skill, on urban maps they are unavoidable, they were implemented in a patch and I doubt that it was Dice's intention to make the Palace in Warlord completely unplayable when it starts filling up due to 6-10 claymores guarding the room in which the flag is in. Such places are now pretty much hermetically sealed, making the game a stalemate where anyone who tries to rush in gets claymored. If you want to guard a flag, get a gun and wait for enemies. Plant C4 and hide nearby. Get in a good position. But don't throw your indestructable doomstick and then turn your back on the flag to go kill people somewhere else.
*Douses flames with fire extinguisher*
Right, who disagrees/agrees with these points?
1. All mines disappear with your kit bag, but can be reacquired if you get your kit bag before it disappears. This allows you to kill a sniper, wait 15 seconds, and go in knowing his claymores are gone.
2. Claymores can be destroyed by grenades, however, they will go off when you grenade them.
3. Engineers get a point for every mine removed. (Currently they are the lowest socring class by far. Obviously, removing AT mines exposes you to fire.)
4. Medics and Supports can't heal/rearm themselves, only others. This makes the assault class better, as its body armor is now a real bonus (healing yourself is better than armor). This also stops supports spamming bullets like crazy.
5. Assaults get 3 smoke grenades, anti-tanks 5.
In my view this would help to balance the classes a lot. Currently, Medic and Support get all the points, engineer and AT get very few. Hardly anyone plays assault as medics can heal themselves.
Right, who disagrees/agrees with these points?
1. All mines disappear with your kit bag, but can be reacquired if you get your kit bag before it disappears. This allows you to kill a sniper, wait 15 seconds, and go in knowing his claymores are gone.
2. Claymores can be destroyed by grenades, however, they will go off when you grenade them.
3. Engineers get a point for every mine removed. (Currently they are the lowest socring class by far. Obviously, removing AT mines exposes you to fire.)
4. Medics and Supports can't heal/rearm themselves, only others. This makes the assault class better, as its body armor is now a real bonus (healing yourself is better than armor). This also stops supports spamming bullets like crazy.
5. Assaults get 3 smoke grenades, anti-tanks 5.
In my view this would help to balance the classes a lot. Currently, Medic and Support get all the points, engineer and AT get very few. Hardly anyone plays assault as medics can heal themselves.
Well the problem with stopping supports from "spamming bullets like crazy" is that the entire point of a Light Machine Gun is to provide lots of cover fire. You are meant to spray your bullets in the general direction of the enemy to "ward them off" if you will. One major advantage of the LMG (this is more real life or more realistic games than bf2, but it still holds true) is to keep your enemy from leaving their position by shooting this way so your troops with assault rifles can take them out without too much worry.Talon wrote:
4. Medics and Supports can't heal/rearm themselves, only others. This makes the assault class better, as its body armor is now a real bonus (healing yourself is better than armor). This also stops supports spamming bullets like crazy.
Last edited by BolvisOculus (2006-08-19 16:07:37)
i dont think engineers would do much good with claymroes.. ithnk they are more like stationary protection, and AT is usually moving a lot (more than snipers).
Not really. They are for covering choke points and setting up ambushes, not covering a ladder because you can't shoot and move.MrKamikaze wrote:
i dont think engineers would do much good with claymroes.. ithnk they are more like stationary protection, and AT is usually moving a lot (more than snipers).
Fair for everybody? How are claymores currently fair for everyone? And you did pull the realism card, you said claymores stay forever in real life. Even if the sniper is killed, i said "this game isn't realistic otherwise we won't even have a claymore problem", therefore it wouldn't matter if in real life they don't dissapear becuase the game isn't really based on realismMj.Blindfisch wrote:
It all kinda makes sense to me as it represents a relatively fair scenario for sniper vs assault guy.
I also stated in my post that when you were able to just rush in,mow him down and the mines dissappear instantly you wouldn't have to adapt to anything,you would just do your charge in and fire routine.[/color][color=orange]If the game was based on realism the vehicles just would pwn everything,the snipers could shoot 800 instead of 430 meters and kill instantly with body shots and you would still have the claymore problem,this time with tripwires and a killing range of up to 50 meters.Mekstizzle wrote:
If this game was based on realism, there wouldn't be this problem in the first place don't even think about using the realism card.
I'm not playing the realism card,I'm making up rules for a game so that it becomes fair for everybody.
Then you again don't answer and come up with stupid statements saying how the game would be if it was realistic, when you were the one talking about realism all the way back and saying how claymores should have some sort of realism, your basically being hypcritical, then you cover it up with saying "trying to make the game fair for everyone"
Your just a deluded sniper that is trying to defend something that is clearly unbalanced. Sniper is my second most played kit (albeit, becuase i have to counter-snipe the other lamers) so i'm no stranger to this. I know it's fucked, you know it's fucked, you don't give a shit becuase to you it's no problem and it's fine. These one-kit wonders are really starting to get annoying. When the fuck will the popular mods come out so we can all leave this crap...
Claymores add challenge to the game. Use tactics and teamwork to get passed them.
I see what you're getting at SargeV1.4 but I think there are errors in your argument.
I've seen plenty of medics do this, hell, I've even done it myself successfully more than a few times. But that's not really the core issue is it? After an exchange of bullets that the medic has won they get to take themselves back to full health, that's where the true strength of the kit lies to the player himself as a fighting unit. It's no surprise then that so many people who play medic as their preferred kit have better-than-average KDRs for the assault rifle... it's because they're not as often finished off by the next guy they encounter who pops one round into them from the MP5 and gets a kill!SargeV1.4 wrote:
Medics healing themselves: You kill the medic before he gets cover. if you're having a fight with a medic and he actually tries to run and heal himself he will mostly die before reaching cover.
Not quite, as he can set up a trap and detonate it remotely when he sees the flag has gone neutral (or is paying attention to commander or teammates spotting on the minimap, which of course he should be in that scenario).SargeV1.4 wrote:
C4: Differs from claymores because the specops guy has to be there to see you himself. Also the range in which you take critical damage is smaller, I believe.
Assuming it were a reliable 15 seconds that is enough time to get smoked if you're standing around waiting for a hallway/flagroom to be clear; if it'd been me that you'd killed near to a flag for example I'd have respawned, come down/up the stairs or whatever and 'naded you or something. Still, I think it's a decent idea to have them vanish with the kit bag.Talon wrote:
1. All mines disappear with your kit bag, but can be reacquired if you get your kit bag before it disappears. This allows you to kill a sniper, wait 15 seconds, and go in knowing his claymores are gone.
Even a lot of snipers agree that claymores should be destructible again.Talon wrote:
2. Claymores can be destroyed by grenades, however, they will go off when you grenade them.
Good idea. I mean, why not? They get horrible weapons for any range to speak of and scant few points as it stands.Talon wrote:
3. Engineers get a point for every mine removed.
Interesting idea but I don't think it would be workable.Talon wrote:
4. Medics and Supports can't heal/rearm themselves, only others.
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