Also, the rest of you should look to kr@cker as a role model since he understands that the forum is called DEBATE and Serious Talk, not ARGUE/HATE and Serious Talk.
People don't seem to understand that it's only a matter of time before you will get bit when you lie down next to lions... In this case, Lebanon has "looked the other way", and tolerated (if not condoned) a known terrorist organization for years. Further, Lebanon is NOT a sovereign nation - they have a separate military (Hezbollah) operating with in its own borders. What would the USA do if a Texas militia just decided to start hording weapons... Oh wait, that did happen and David Koresh burned to a crisp.
What's happening there is a tragedy - no question. But even the biggest bleeding heart do-gooder has to admit that given all of the above, it's not space science to figure out that citizens should LEAVE a country where these conditions exist - home or not. The time to get out wasn't last week, or the week before... It was the day TERRORISTS started launching rockets from your back yard.
I'm sorry, it's terrible what's happening to innocent people, however, it's simply unfair to expect a country like Israel to stand pat and not defend itself. If Lebanon were serious about fixing the problem, they'd be in front of the UN and Israel offering to take control of their borders (with UN help). This is in fact one of the conditions for a cease fire (the second being STOP DROPPING MISSILES ON ISRAEL). The fact is, they can't / won't / whatever.
Oh, and does anyone honestly believe that the Lebanese gov't doesn't realize how / when / where the Iranian weapons are coming in? C'mon, let's be realistic here... Israel is being heavy handed, but they aren't doing anything that shouldn't have been done long ago. An unenforced cease fire will just allow the terrorists to rearm and reorganize...
What's happening there is a tragedy - no question. But even the biggest bleeding heart do-gooder has to admit that given all of the above, it's not space science to figure out that citizens should LEAVE a country where these conditions exist - home or not. The time to get out wasn't last week, or the week before... It was the day TERRORISTS started launching rockets from your back yard.
I'm sorry, it's terrible what's happening to innocent people, however, it's simply unfair to expect a country like Israel to stand pat and not defend itself. If Lebanon were serious about fixing the problem, they'd be in front of the UN and Israel offering to take control of their borders (with UN help). This is in fact one of the conditions for a cease fire (the second being STOP DROPPING MISSILES ON ISRAEL). The fact is, they can't / won't / whatever.
Oh, and does anyone honestly believe that the Lebanese gov't doesn't realize how / when / where the Iranian weapons are coming in? C'mon, let's be realistic here... Israel is being heavy handed, but they aren't doing anything that shouldn't have been done long ago. An unenforced cease fire will just allow the terrorists to rearm and reorganize...
Last edited by wanderlost (2006-08-07 20:58:57)
I like what you say and how you say it=] Last paragraphwanderlost wrote:
People don't seem to understand that it's only a matter of time before you will get bit when you lie down next to lions... In this case, Lebanon has "looked the other way", and tolerated (if not condoned) a known terrorist organization for years. Further, Lebanon is NOT a sovereign nation - they have a separate military (Hezbollah) operating with in its own borders. What would the USA do if a Texas militia just decided to start hording weapons... Oh wait, that did happen and David Koresh burned to a crisp.
What's happening there is a tragedy - no question. But even the biggest bleeding heart do-gooder has to admit that given all of the above, it's not space science to figure out that citizens should LEAVE a country where these conditions exist - home or not. The time to get out wasn't last week, or the week before... It was the day TERRORISTS started launching rockets from your back yard.
I'm sorry, it's terrible what's happening to innocent people, however, it's simply unfair to expect a country like Israel to stand pat and not defend itself. If Lebanon were serious about fixing the problem, they'd be in front of the UN and Israel offering to take control of their borders (with UN help). This is in fact one of the conditions for a cease fire (the second being STOP DROPPING MISSILES ON ISRAEL). The fact is, they can't / won't / whatever.
Oh, and does anyone honestly believe that the Lebanese gov't doesn't realize how / when / where the Iranian weapons are coming in? C'mon, let's be realistic here... Israel is being heavy handed, but they aren't doing anything that shouldn't have been done long ago. An unenforced cease fire will just allow the terrorists to rearm and reorganize...
Couldn't care less about Jews. Or Christians. Or Muslims, Hindu, Shinto, Hari Christna, black, brown, white or plaid.SealXo wrote:
I say I LOVE JEWS because THEY are doing what AMERICAS not.
One side in this bullshit at least makes some effort not to hit civilians. One side targets civilians and has done so for years and years. End of story, IMO.
I think he meant rogue.Canin wrote:
I assume you meant roughSealXo wrote:
Its not the united states perfect little democracy dude its rouge
doesn't it seem strange to anyone that an evil oppressive invading army would warn a town for days in advance of shelling and ground skirmishes, these people that should have gotten out when the rockets were launching should have at least gotten out when the Israeli planes started dropping pamphlets saying "it's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and that last rocket attack blew up all our bubble gum"
granted some were forced to stay by the hezzies, but others stayed because they were taking part, aside from those 2 reasons why else would you stay in a warzone?
granted some were forced to stay by the hezzies, but others stayed because they were taking part, aside from those 2 reasons why else would you stay in a warzone?
nice postkr@cker wrote:
doesn't it seem strange to anyone that an evil oppressive invading army would warn a town for days in advance of shelling and ground skirmishes, these people that should have gotten out when the rockets were launching should have at least gotten out when the Israeli planes started dropping pamphlets saying "it's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and that last rocket attack blew up all our bubble gum"
granted some were forced to stay by the hezzies, but others stayed because they were taking part, aside from those 2 reasons why else would you stay in a warzone?
If you didn't buy the oil arabs supplied you would be riding a bicycle to work.SealXo wrote:
Come on your all bitching about cutting off lebanons supplies? When they PROVOKED the war and started it.
(Dont say hezbollah isnt lebanon , its part of their gov like the KGB)
What do you think would have heppened if we didnt bomb the Axis's supply lines in world war 2? Hmm? I sure as hell know. We would have lost teh Goddamn war.
I say I LOVE JEWS because THEY are doing what AMERICAS not. We are GIVING Al Queda Supplies (We buy the oil which is the money funded ot them). So i say. BRAVO Israel for using the correct strategy.
So the point is. It's fukin' war son. Get over it, It's strategy
They need to do whatever is nessessary, to unarm hezbollah so they don't get anihaliated. It's that simple they are playing ball.
We bombed Japan, but its what we needed to do. I say hell its better THEM than US
Last edited by alpinestar (2006-08-07 23:39:29)
If there is a ceasefire, look for hesbollah to violate it by cross border raids and missle attacks.
No matter what they say they will do, this is what will happen.
No matter what they say they will do, this is what will happen.
Why dont they just cap the last flag and stop spawn raping is what i wanna know
Umm... does the Libertarian party hold 30% of the seats in our congress? No... Hezbollah can't be compared directly to any of the parties in the western nations, because western parties don't have their own private armies. It's not like we have the Righteous Defenders of the Republican Party fighting the Left Wing Army of the Democratic Party in the streets...chittydog wrote:
Hezbollah is NOT part of their government. It is a political party that holds a minority position in their government. If the Libertarian party in the US was found to be a terrorist party, would the entire country be responsible for their actions? No, but you seem to be too misinformed to understand any of that.
Edited for spelling.
Last edited by kuntpunch_37 (2006-08-08 00:07:49)
i think Israel are spawn raping
Give it time. We're getting there.kuntpunch_37 wrote:
Umm... does the Libertarian party hold 30% of the seats in our congress? No... Hezbollah can't be compared directly to any of the parties in the western nations, because western parties don't have their own private armies. It's not like we have the Righteous Defenders of the Republican Party fighting the Left Wing Army of the Democratic Party in the streets...chittydog wrote:
Hezbollah is NOT part of their government. It is a political party that holds a minority position in their government. If the Libertarian party in the US was found to be a terrorist party, would the entire country be responsible for their actions? No, but you seem to be too misinformed to understand any of that.
Edited for spelling.
Ban Israel from the world for real-life stat padding!
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe the Lebanese government CANT control Hezbollah, even if they wanted to? The fact is that if even one innocent person dies as a result of this shit, its one too many. Maybe you should just "get over" the 3000 deaths of 9/11...how many of you who don't give a shit are Jewish or Christian? Go look up commandment number 6.
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe the Lebanese government CANT control Hezbollah, even if they wanted to? The fact is that if even one innocent person dies as a result of this shit, its one too many. Maybe you should just "get over" the 3000 deaths of 9/11...how many of you who don't give a shit are Jewish or Christian? Go look up commandment number 6.
Last edited by Pubic (2006-08-08 00:43:19)
for reference, Japan didnt NEED to be bombed, it was just the battleplan that resulted in the least amount of Allied casualties.
I totally agree with youPubic wrote:
Ban Israel from the world for real-life stat padding!
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe the Lebanese government CANT control Hezbollah, even if they wanted to? The fact is that if even one innocent person dies as a result of this shit, its one too many. Maybe you should just "get over" the 3000 deaths of 9/11...how many of you who don't give a shit are Jewish or Christian? Go look up commandment number 6.
D'you know what I find funny? How all these liberals (communists) think they can have any influence over the US-Israel alliance. Go and cry to your mommy at the UN while the big boys sort all this shit out.
The Big Boys. Do you have ANY inclination as to what is going on in this war?
liberalism and communism have nothing in common.CyrusTheVirus wrote:
D'you know what I find funny? How all these liberals (communists) think they can have any influence over the US-Israel alliance. Go and cry to your mommy at the UN while the big boys sort all this shit out.
That sounds like a liberal POV.stryyker wrote:
liberalism and communism have nothing in common.CyrusTheVirus wrote:
D'you know what I find funny? How all these liberals (communists) think they can have any influence over the US-Israel alliance. Go and cry to your mommy at the UN while the big boys sort all this shit out.
word, there has never been a true communist countrystryyker wrote:
liberalism and communism have nothing in common.CyrusTheVirus wrote:
D'you know what I find funny? How all these liberals (communists) think they can have any influence over the US-Israel alliance. Go and cry to your mommy at the UN while the big boys sort all this shit out.
sounds like a case of ingorant illiterate on your side. read up on both, come back and talk when you have a clear perception of what both are.CyrusTheVirus wrote:
That sounds like a liberal POV.stryyker wrote:
liberalism and communism have nothing in common.CyrusTheVirus wrote:
D'you know what I find funny? How all these liberals (communists) think they can have any influence over the US-Israel alliance. Go and cry to your mommy at the UN while the big boys sort all this shit out.
as for you other statement, i am a Whig
You're retarded. What do liberalism and communism have in common? Would you call China a liberal country? Granted, China owes a great deal to its Maoist legacy which differed from Marx in several important ways, but you're probably too stupid to even grasp what I'm talking about...CyrusTheVirus wrote:
That sounds like a liberal POV.stryyker wrote:
liberalism and communism have nothing in common.CyrusTheVirus wrote:
D'you know what I find funny? How all these liberals (communists) think they can have any influence over the US-Israel alliance. Go and cry to your mommy at the UN while the big boys sort all this shit out.
Last edited by kuntpunch_37 (2006-08-08 01:02:52)
If one innocent person dies, its one too many......Pubic wrote:
Ban Israel from the world for real-life stat padding!
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe the Lebanese government CANT control Hezbollah, even if they wanted to? The fact is that if even one innocent person dies as a result of this shit, its one too many. Maybe you should just "get over" the 3000 deaths of 9/11...how many of you who don't give a shit are Jewish or Christian? Go look up commandment number 6.
I guess to start off, where are we going to start keeping count? The Israli soldiers killed in the cross border raid that started this (current) whole mess off? The civillians killed back 15 years ago in the civil war? Civillians killed as a result of Israel occupying the southern border of Lebanon until the late 90's? The AMERICANS killed in the Embassy bombing? The original Jewish settlers murdered in the 1950's? How far back do you go?
The fact of the matter is, innocent people are always going to die. Thats what happens in war. It sucks, you can stand to the side and wring your hands and cry all you want, but innocent people die. More innocent people die than necessary when they allow the enemy to hide amongst them, but then you have to ask the question, are they still innocent?
I have a quote, and then I want to address other comments:
John Stuard Mill wrote:
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
Dude, that is one of the most uneducated statements I have ever seen. First of all, you need to define your terms. Are you talking about classical liberals (now generally known as libtertarians or capitalists), or modern liberals (who are closer to socialist, with some representative leanings).CyrusTheVirus wrote:
That sounds like a liberal POV.stryyker wrote:
liberalism and communism have nothing in common.CyrusTheVirus wrote:
D'you know what I find funny? How all these liberals (communists) think they can have any influence over the US-Israel alliance. Go and cry to your mommy at the UN while the big boys sort all this shit out.
That being said, I think that you do have a point about anyone having infulence over the US - Israel alliance. There are only two other countries in the world that have a relationship with the US like Israel does, and neither of them want to interfere.
Communism is an ideology that seeks to establish a future classless, stateless social organization based upon common ownership of the means of production and the absence of private property. It can be classified as a branch of the broader socialist movement. Communism also refers to a variety of political movements which claim the establishment of such a social organization as their ultimate goal.
wikipedia.Liberalism is an ideology, philosophical view, and political tradition which holds that liberty is the primary political value.[1] Liberalism has its roots in the Western Enlightenment, but the term now encompasses a diversity of political thought.
Broadly speaking, contemporary liberalism emphasizes individual rights as opposed to group rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, especially of government and religion, the rule of law, free public education, and progressive taxation, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports relatively free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected. [2] In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed[3].