Wow. FP!
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I lack experience in BF2 flying (though I do fairly well), but flying / space games are among my favorites (#1 all time, Wing Commander: Privateer).
I too have noticed going over/under choppers to yield a fair number of crashes.... I usually break early, but I'll try breaking left or right next time I'm up. I think I figured out why (especially with going over) it often turns out so bad. I think the most common first action for a chopper pilot being fired on is to raise the collective 100%... no matter what you plan to do (unless you've got altitude and tone, and you bottom the collective to hang with the flares)... so you go over and would clear, if the chopper pilot wasn't now climbing (and flying into your belly).
I had a perfect Murphy's law moment in a round last week. I had crashed for the second time going over a chopper, and get back in the air. Spot another hilo, and thing "the hell with this, he's high, I'm going under this first pass". Well... this hilo I kill in the first pass right at the last second, so I'm already geared to go under, and the wreckage falls on me while I'm down there, lol.
I still haven't gotten the knack of missiles, so I just rarely use them... in fact, almost never. I use missile mode for 2 ocassions. a) a chopper/jet gunning at a friendly, I give 'em tone to freak them out and force a break in their attack, or b) those damn foggy maps when I know generally where a hilo is I want to kill, but just can't see.
I too have noticed going over/under choppers to yield a fair number of crashes.... I usually break early, but I'll try breaking left or right next time I'm up. I think I figured out why (especially with going over) it often turns out so bad. I think the most common first action for a chopper pilot being fired on is to raise the collective 100%... no matter what you plan to do (unless you've got altitude and tone, and you bottom the collective to hang with the flares)... so you go over and would clear, if the chopper pilot wasn't now climbing (and flying into your belly).
I had a perfect Murphy's law moment in a round last week. I had crashed for the second time going over a chopper, and get back in the air. Spot another hilo, and thing "the hell with this, he's high, I'm going under this first pass". Well... this hilo I kill in the first pass right at the last second, so I'm already geared to go under, and the wreckage falls on me while I'm down there, lol.
I still haven't gotten the knack of missiles, so I just rarely use them... in fact, almost never. I use missile mode for 2 ocassions. a) a chopper/jet gunning at a friendly, I give 'em tone to freak them out and force a break in their attack, or b) those damn foggy maps when I know generally where a hilo is I want to kill, but just can't see.
Nah... You don't need joystick to fly chopper but damn I must read those Jet tips as long as I suck with plane
HELP PLZ, i have been looking for something like the JoyToKey for ages now, i could use some help with getting my keys configured.
I am mainly interested in the spotting and mouselook to hud so if anyone has either of these please either pm me or post it here!
THANKYOU JEBUS!
Kooda
I am mainly interested in the spotting and mouselook to hud so if anyone has either of these please either pm me or post it here!
THANKYOU JEBUS!
Kooda
In BF2 bind one joystick key to open the spotted menu as an alternate to whatever key you use from the keyboard. Then with joy2key bind joystick 1 to left mouse. In flight, press the first joystick key to open the spotted hud, then press the other joystick key to confirm "enemy spotted". Joystick one will still work as MG fire when the hud is not up.
Great post, tx.
Bomber Tip: I always prefer to fly SU-30s or SU-34s and try to steal them when i'm not on chinese or mec teams. The advantage of these bombers is that you can hold your own in a dogfight because of their manoeuvreability. If you have a jet on your tail you can pull off a vertical S into an immelman or reverse cuban to shake them off your tail. You can also go into a steep climb and lose them in the fog, then just drop throttle and let the plane dive back into preferred altitude (this latter move also leaves you in a great position for a nose first dive bombing run which is great for taking out heavily armored targets).
Never, i repeat NEVER, try to pull off a vertical S in an F15. The flying bucket (as i like to call it) will spin out every time as it has nowhere near the manoeuvreability that the other two bombers have. It's better to perform a steep climb and lose them in the fog or perform several immelmans to try and shake the jet off your tail. Most jet pilots will quickly lose interest in you if they waste all their missiles trying to take you out during all your spins. Very few will actually use the MG which is a typical noob mistake.
A good tip for all bombers: barrel roll while in missile lock and save your flares. No, not spin on your y-axis (this is just a roll) but barrel roll (look it up). Missiles will always target a heat source (your burners) and 9 times out of 10 cannot follow the constant change in their positions through the roll's spin when you're performing it. Most of the time i don't even use my flares as this is sufficient to evade the missiles. Noob pilots will waste all their missiles on you when you do this without flares and will just break off right after. Make sure you have enough altitude though beforehand (125-150 feet) or you'll just barrel roll right into the ground on the lower half of the manouvre.
Su-30s and SU-34s can dogfight too. Don't be afraid to take on jets when in these bombers especially if you see them damaged. I always try to return the favor whenever i get a chance.
Bomber Tip: I always prefer to fly SU-30s or SU-34s and try to steal them when i'm not on chinese or mec teams. The advantage of these bombers is that you can hold your own in a dogfight because of their manoeuvreability. If you have a jet on your tail you can pull off a vertical S into an immelman or reverse cuban to shake them off your tail. You can also go into a steep climb and lose them in the fog, then just drop throttle and let the plane dive back into preferred altitude (this latter move also leaves you in a great position for a nose first dive bombing run which is great for taking out heavily armored targets).
Never, i repeat NEVER, try to pull off a vertical S in an F15. The flying bucket (as i like to call it) will spin out every time as it has nowhere near the manoeuvreability that the other two bombers have. It's better to perform a steep climb and lose them in the fog or perform several immelmans to try and shake the jet off your tail. Most jet pilots will quickly lose interest in you if they waste all their missiles trying to take you out during all your spins. Very few will actually use the MG which is a typical noob mistake.
A good tip for all bombers: barrel roll while in missile lock and save your flares. No, not spin on your y-axis (this is just a roll) but barrel roll (look it up). Missiles will always target a heat source (your burners) and 9 times out of 10 cannot follow the constant change in their positions through the roll's spin when you're performing it. Most of the time i don't even use my flares as this is sufficient to evade the missiles. Noob pilots will waste all their missiles on you when you do this without flares and will just break off right after. Make sure you have enough altitude though beforehand (125-150 feet) or you'll just barrel roll right into the ground on the lower half of the manouvre.
Su-30s and SU-34s can dogfight too. Don't be afraid to take on jets when in these bombers especially if you see them damaged. I always try to return the favor whenever i get a chance.
id just like to add a few things.
US has F-35 and F-18, no F-16 (yeah, nit-noy, but im just that way.)
split S in a bomber = good.
another manover i found to be the typical in getting somebody off your tail:
pull back (predictible) until you complete half of a full loop, then roll 90 instead of 180, and pull back. its like an immelman, only, at the halfway point, it changes axis. normally the first couple will get followed, but after doing it 3 or 4 times, alternating directions, you should be out of the viewing window, tuck and burn away to get em off your arse.
another tip: when your in the bombers, you are prey. fly low, fly fast, and if you see a fighter, tuck and burn away. when your in a fighter, you are air superiority. your role is first and foremost air to air, air to ground is secondary, virtually tetuary.
and i dont use missles period. useless, virtually regardless of instance.
US has F-35 and F-18, no F-16 (yeah, nit-noy, but im just that way.)
split S in a bomber = good.
another manover i found to be the typical in getting somebody off your tail:
pull back (predictible) until you complete half of a full loop, then roll 90 instead of 180, and pull back. its like an immelman, only, at the halfway point, it changes axis. normally the first couple will get followed, but after doing it 3 or 4 times, alternating directions, you should be out of the viewing window, tuck and burn away to get em off your arse.
another tip: when your in the bombers, you are prey. fly low, fly fast, and if you see a fighter, tuck and burn away. when your in a fighter, you are air superiority. your role is first and foremost air to air, air to ground is secondary, virtually tetuary.
and i dont use missles period. useless, virtually regardless of instance.
IS THE JOYSTICK YOU USE a Sidewinder Precision 2 or is it a FORCEFEED 2??????????
they made two differant Sidwinders.. the forcefeed one is more expensive.
Its a forcefeed back. ~ 100 canadian.
My Joystick has a little slider to control speed, but it doesnt work. How could I get it going?
Before I read Canada's post. I flew against you! And defeated you I might add. Though you gave me one hell of a workout for it.
Also I would like to add Canada that my clan leader in Teamspeak thought you hacked or something along those lines possibly. We were all wondering really.
Could you please elaborate on this? I don't get this part:
Also, I like your tactic for finding SAMs. You didn't list it but i picked up on it pretty quickly. You let them lock on, go into rear view, and then see where it came from while pulling away. Very snappy.
Also I would like to add Canada that my clan leader in Teamspeak thought you hacked or something along those lines possibly. We were all wondering really.
Could you please elaborate on this? I don't get this part:
Also, by the single-bomb mode, you mean the glitch by when you only have one bomb, and you drop it and from that point on it will drop single bombs instead of both, correct?-If you are attacking from the front, MG's are superior to rockets, however there is a trick to scoring one missle hit from a front on assault. Fly in bomb mode, MG the heli, (they won't drop flares as there is no missle lock, even if they do this still works), at about 20 feet from the heli, release two rockets by QUICKLY snapping into rocket mode, and switch back to bomb mode as you fly past in vertical alignment (knife edge). Because you are flying head on, the rocket side closest to the heli will collide with its windshield, while the other side will miss. However, you have done MG + rocket damage. Fly off bust a loop, and return for an easy MG kill. This trick always works, but relies entirely on your timing of getting in and out of rocket mode, as well as your ability to get close enough for the rocket to collide directly with the pilots windshield, but far enough away that you can rotate into the knife edge position and evading the inevitible collision. If you don't fire from the correct distance, the rocket will skim along the heli's body, but if you do it close enough the rocket seems to have no choice but to collide with the front of the heli.
Also, I like your tactic for finding SAMs. You didn't list it but i picked up on it pretty quickly. You let them lock on, go into rear view, and then see where it came from while pulling away. Very snappy.
Last edited by Jewbat (2005-11-29 04:03:13)
Jewbat. What he means by that section of this post is the following if I grasped it correctly from his explanation and videos.
You have a missle attached to your left and right wing of the aircraft. As you fly towards the heli you are using your MG to shoot it then at the last second you are dodgeing to not hit it. As you do your wing is barely above the heli as you pass. If you launch both missle a second before you pass the heli then the missle will drop from the wing and continue forward into the helicopter. By firing the missle this close to the target it does not use its guidance system and hence acts as a dumb missle and hits the target.
I watched quite a few of his excellent videos in which he demonstrates this quite a bit. It seems to be a favorite tactic of his and I can see why. It works! Not to mention his bombing skill is simply amazing to watch.
Cheers [CANADA]_Zenmaster.
Excellent Post!
You have a missle attached to your left and right wing of the aircraft. As you fly towards the heli you are using your MG to shoot it then at the last second you are dodgeing to not hit it. As you do your wing is barely above the heli as you pass. If you launch both missle a second before you pass the heli then the missle will drop from the wing and continue forward into the helicopter. By firing the missle this close to the target it does not use its guidance system and hence acts as a dumb missle and hits the target.
I watched quite a few of his excellent videos in which he demonstrates this quite a bit. It seems to be a favorite tactic of his and I can see why. It works! Not to mention his bombing skill is simply amazing to watch.
Cheers [CANADA]_Zenmaster.
Excellent Post!
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Totally absorbing read Zenmaster.
Will take on board what you say and give it a go.
Thanx very much
Will take on board what you say and give it a go.
Thanx very much
Last edited by mentalmoses (2005-11-29 04:20:54)
Tips: Some things i've found useful when taking on helis or jets as an aviator.
Just because something is in the air doesn't mean a bomb can't hit it (most new pilots find this out when they release their bombs and don't pull up in time). For instance, if you find yourself out of missiles and can't perform zenmaster's trick of missile release just as you break off from attacking a chopper; instead of breaking off left or right, skim just above the heli and release your bombs on top of them. This works just as well.
Another tip for helis and their (what sometimes seems like) neverending flare drops; FIRE your missiles BEFORE the lock is engaged. Most helis wait for the full tone before dropping flares and releasing the missiles a half second before this means that the released missiles will veer into the heli once the lock is engaged. But fring them the half second sooner means they're already in flight and heading towards the target before the pilot and gunner know what hit them.
This also works for jets. The advantage of having the missiles in flight means you can have 2-3 missiles in the air before the locking system engages. Even if they manage to drop flares and the missiles veer towards them instead of your target, they wont have time to drop far enough away from the heli/jet and so you still cause splash damage from the proximity of the explosions.
Just because something is in the air doesn't mean a bomb can't hit it (most new pilots find this out when they release their bombs and don't pull up in time). For instance, if you find yourself out of missiles and can't perform zenmaster's trick of missile release just as you break off from attacking a chopper; instead of breaking off left or right, skim just above the heli and release your bombs on top of them. This works just as well.
Another tip for helis and their (what sometimes seems like) neverending flare drops; FIRE your missiles BEFORE the lock is engaged. Most helis wait for the full tone before dropping flares and releasing the missiles a half second before this means that the released missiles will veer into the heli once the lock is engaged. But fring them the half second sooner means they're already in flight and heading towards the target before the pilot and gunner know what hit them.
This also works for jets. The advantage of having the missiles in flight means you can have 2-3 missiles in the air before the locking system engages. Even if they manage to drop flares and the missiles veer towards them instead of your target, they wont have time to drop far enough away from the heli/jet and so you still cause splash damage from the proximity of the explosions.
^ This is what I mean, and you can see it here in these videos:kilroy0097 wrote:
Jewbat. What he means by that section of this post is the following if I grasped it correctly from his explanation and videos.
You have a missle attached to your left and right wing of the aircraft. As you fly towards the heli you are using your MG to shoot it then at the last second you are dodgeing to not hit it. As you do your wing is barely above the heli as you pass. If you launch both missle a second before you pass the heli then the missle will drop from the wing and continue forward into the helicopter. By firing the missle this close to the target it does not use its guidance system and hence acts as a dumb missle and hits the target.
Excellent Post!
Note: I couldn't find many front on attacks in this video collection, but in that SampleJ10Flight4 you can see why its not the best attack because it will lead to a close call or a collision if you pull off too late. I can make some more videos of the front method, but I always do the rear (lol) when its open (lolx2).
Rear:
http://files.filefront.com/loltkavi/;44 … einfo.html
- The missle always hits if its on the side closest to the enemy aircrafts body, if its launching from the other side it always misses. In this video you can see the rear attack method against the blackhawk, the first time I do it at the beginning of the video, my missle launches from the same side I'm attacking the blackhawk on and so it hits. The second time on my return flight the missle launches from the wrong side and misses. If I was a better pilot I would keep track of what side my missles are launching from and attack appropriately, but I just want the damn kill haha.
Same rear attack but on a cobra:
http://files.filefront.com/DieCobraavi/ … einfo.html
Rear again:
http://files.filefront.com/RadarHelpsav … einfo.html
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Jewbat were you this guy - It's the only time I've been shot down in the past few days,
http://files.filefront.com/GreedKillsav … einfo.html ?
Thats a great example of what happens on wake island when your flying the J10, you get so cocky because literally nothing can take you out. Most of time I'm flying wake there's one, two, last night three, enemy jets chasing me around the sky but I pay them no heed because it's rare a decent pilot is on USA lolol. That bomb was such a good bomb too
Anyways as a note to everyone, I keep seeing people from the forums showing up on the server and not introducing themselves or issuing any challenges at all! If you wanna see some good combat tell me you're there, otherwise I assume most people are noobs and totally ignore everyone chasing me
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What Jester said about loosing missles early works, just thought I'd add my support to that.
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I'm getting PM's about how to bomb and people wanting more bombing videos, I'll try to make some more, but did you guys want me in the bomber or in the J10/F35? F35 is the best learning platform for bombing, slow and steady, but its horrible to fly when you're used to the J10.
Here's a few sites with some diagrams/vids of BFM (basic flight manoeuvres):
http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_bfm.htm
http://www.combataircraft.com/intel/tactics/
http://www.simhq.com/_air/acc_library.html
Please note one thing: Your modern combat jets in BF2 cannot perform ALL of these manoeuvres. The present day jets lack manoeuvreability at low speeds, so things like a "Vertical Reverse" are not recommended. Like Zenmaster says... keep your airspeed up.
It'll be a lot more fun in the skies if everyone had a pocketfull of acrobatics they could pull off during the round. Makes dogfighting a lot more enjoyable.
I like to tail my fellow teammates whenever they're in a plane... just to try and get them to get in some type of formation so we could cover each other's behinds but noone seems to care.
Another Tip: Even if you're out of missiles you can still keep other jet fighters off your teammates by liberally and continuously having your missile lock engaged on them. They'll be too busy evading to bomb or strafe anyone and your mates will thank you for the respite from the aerial onslaught. I do this whenever our airfield is taken over and i run out of ammo.
http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_bfm.htm
http://www.combataircraft.com/intel/tactics/
http://www.simhq.com/_air/acc_library.html
Please note one thing: Your modern combat jets in BF2 cannot perform ALL of these manoeuvres. The present day jets lack manoeuvreability at low speeds, so things like a "Vertical Reverse" are not recommended. Like Zenmaster says... keep your airspeed up.
It'll be a lot more fun in the skies if everyone had a pocketfull of acrobatics they could pull off during the round. Makes dogfighting a lot more enjoyable.
I like to tail my fellow teammates whenever they're in a plane... just to try and get them to get in some type of formation so we could cover each other's behinds but noone seems to care.
Another Tip: Even if you're out of missiles you can still keep other jet fighters off your teammates by liberally and continuously having your missile lock engaged on them. They'll be too busy evading to bomb or strafe anyone and your mates will thank you for the respite from the aerial onslaught. I do this whenever our airfield is taken over and i run out of ammo.
Last edited by Jester.retseJ (2005-11-29 20:24:49)
Zenmaster, Im new here and just really getting into the game. Thanks for the info, read it over and will be practicing jet skills as suggested offline/low player servers. Chopper skills are fine, but Ive always seemed to have difficulty with the jets.
Didnt even know u could switch from dual to single bomb drops.. how do u do this?
Have a saitek x45 Jstick, so have plenty of options for adding view changes, etc to the stick...
And thanks again for the info!
Didnt even know u could switch from dual to single bomb drops.. how do u do this?
Have a saitek x45 Jstick, so have plenty of options for adding view changes, etc to the stick...
And thanks again for the info!
Ok I've got some videos from one round of Gulf of Oman for those who wanted to see more bombing. One thing I will say is the gunner I had in the Su34 was horrible so I stopped lining up shots for him, I'd give him a pass and no rocket would come out, so I think he was joy riding for most of it - now and then he'd shoot but miss lol.
If the video has the word "bomb" in it, its a short video so you can download it quickly. If it has got "flight" in it, its longer and shows a bit of how I fly. I wasn't able to get any great bombs (like 6 ppl capping a flag) but I only played one round so live with it lol.
The files will be uploading over the next hour so you can grab some now and check back later when they are all uploaded.
Thread to Ask Q's about videos.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=5957
Videos:
http://hosted.filefront.com/CanadaZenmaster
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Death, to drop single bombs you can do three things. A) Tap the button very quickly B) Drop both bombs, reload a single bomb, drop it, then you will be always dropping singles even if you have two for the rest of the flight (until you get a new plane) - It's sorta a glitch that all pilots figure out after a while C) Fly a J10 where a runway pass reloads one bomb.
If the video has the word "bomb" in it, its a short video so you can download it quickly. If it has got "flight" in it, its longer and shows a bit of how I fly. I wasn't able to get any great bombs (like 6 ppl capping a flag) but I only played one round so live with it lol.
The files will be uploading over the next hour so you can grab some now and check back later when they are all uploaded.
Thread to Ask Q's about videos.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=5957
Videos:
http://hosted.filefront.com/CanadaZenmaster
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Ditto - When wake airfield is taken over and your out of all ammo, keeping missle lock on everything in sight is a great tactic.Jester.retseJ wrote:
Here's a few sites with some diagrams/vids of BFM (basic flight manoeuvres):
Another Tip: Even if you're out of missiles you can still keep other jet fighters off your teammates by liberally and continuously having your missile lock engaged on them. They'll be too busy evading to bomb or strafe anyone and your mates will thank you for the respite from the aerial onslaught. I do this whenever our airfield is taken over and i run out of ammo.
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Death, to drop single bombs you can do three things. A) Tap the button very quickly B) Drop both bombs, reload a single bomb, drop it, then you will be always dropping singles even if you have two for the rest of the flight (until you get a new plane) - It's sorta a glitch that all pilots figure out after a while C) Fly a J10 where a runway pass reloads one bomb.
Last edited by [CANADA]_Zenmaster (2005-11-29 16:32:06)
And when I did get you Canada was on Oman. You and that bloody Mig. I actually got you while flying a Harrier. No joke. It took half the bloody round but I finally got you!
Edit:
I cannot get the entire "Knife's Edge" with the dumbfire rockets to work. I get helos in about 2 runs which is about the same as your trick, but I'd like to try it your way and see if I can improve my runs. Everytime I try it, it seems I crash.
Edit:
I cannot get the entire "Knife's Edge" with the dumbfire rockets to work. I get helos in about 2 runs which is about the same as your trick, but I'd like to try it your way and see if I can improve my runs. Everytime I try it, it seems I crash.
Last edited by Jewbat (2005-11-29 23:05:26)
Wow, I haven't played Oman in a long time - must have been a while ago! I made some Oman videos today though, but I was quite rusty compared to Wake. Question for ya, was it worth chasing me around half the time? Its only 2 pts, leave me alone damn you! God that F35B today in Oman must have smelled blood because he would not leave me alone yet never shot me down lol. I felt like a slalom skier.Jewbat wrote:
And when I did get you Canada was on Oman. You and that bloody Mig. I actually got you while flying a Harrier. No joke. It took half the bloody round but I finally got you!
Edit:
I cannot get the entire "Knife's Edge" with the dumbfire rockets to work. I get helos in about 2 runs which is about the same as your trick, but I'd like to try it your way and see if I can improve my runs. Everytime I try it, it seems I crash.
To do the knife edge thing, practice attacking from behind - head on takes even more timing then behind does, and will result in way more crashes if you don't have it down pat. You don't need to do a full knife edge either, just rotate away from the body of the heli. One video I clipped the tail of the blackhawk pretty bad and the Z10 got credit for two kills but with the name J10 in it. It's quite odd lol.
It's 347AM, I must sleep! RLY??!?! YA RLY!! NO WAI!!! ytmnd.com learn to love it.
Seems I'm master of the run on sentence/topic change in these posts FFS lol edit these a bit here haha. Please disregard anything that sounds funny when read in a sexual context. The knife edge position is for experts only and knives are sharp so wear protection.
F-35B's (which are not in service yet, and afaik have no name other than "Joint Strike Fighter") are not Harriers, or rather, AV-8B Harrier II's.Jewbat wrote:
I actually got you while flying a Harrier.
you know, i'm almost surprised they didn't put Ospreys in the game...
Hey Zen, thanks for the post. I saw you a few times on Wake this week and remember getting bombed mercilessly. It also doesn't help when the US Side is too scared to leave the carrier and TK's for the fighter. And must be nice using a joystick, a mouse flyer myself, you simply cannot keep up with turning for long against a joysticker.
I will try those jet vs jet tips sometime... although you are right, f35s are not fast enough to keep up with j10s or migs.
I will try those jet vs jet tips sometime... although you are right, f35s are not fast enough to keep up with j10s or migs.
Oh I know it's not a Harrier, but Harrier sounds better versus F-35B or whatever.
And yeah, when you think about it Zenmaster, I was doing my job by following you around, if keep you busy trying to evade missles/gunfire, that leaves you less time to take targets and bomb them well enough to keep our armor away.
I'd love to fly against you again sometime, just check me out on the clan server or whatnot.
Our IP is 70.86.174.102 and we usually play around 9 or 10 EST. We usually have around 5 clanmates on there, so it's always a riot. Though I know if we play Wake I'm definately going to need someone in an AA to beat you. That's how I do it in Wake because those stupid F35's are so damned slow!
And yeah, when you think about it Zenmaster, I was doing my job by following you around, if keep you busy trying to evade missles/gunfire, that leaves you less time to take targets and bomb them well enough to keep our armor away.
I'd love to fly against you again sometime, just check me out on the clan server or whatnot.
Our IP is 70.86.174.102 and we usually play around 9 or 10 EST. We usually have around 5 clanmates on there, so it's always a riot. Though I know if we play Wake I'm definately going to need someone in an AA to beat you. That's how I do it in Wake because those stupid F35's are so damned slow!
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