BF2S Forums U.S. has been the greatest military aggressors of the last century

Nehil wrote:

PLEASE EVERY AMERICAN, REPEAT AFTER ME:

2 FRIGGING DIVISIONS

That's what the Almighty USA, Canada and (Not so) Great Britan fought against in Normandy. While over

40 FUCKING DIVISIONS fought the Russians. That's over 80%.

I'm not trying to ignore the war efforts mabe by the USA. But the WAR WOULD HAVE BEEN WON WITHOUT USA. It would have lasted 2 or 3 years more and more live would have been lost, that's for sure. But do you really think you KILLED EVERY GERMAN YOURSELVES? Fuck no I say. Russia was the no.1 nation in most lives lost during WWII, second was Poland.  PLEASE DONT EXAGGERATE THE US WAR EFFORT. Now flame me.

Typical 2 dimensional thinking.  Think Germany would have still lost if the USA did not jump into the war?  Sorry but thinking that the most deaths equal the biggest contribution to the combat success of a nation is just plain stupid.  Russia killed most of their officers in the 1920s and 1930s so leadership was void in Russia.  All the Soviets could do until 1942 was sacrifice their troops in order to buy time until the T-34 could be delivered.  Also, something called WINTER, in fact the coldest winter on record, stopped the Germans within sight of Moscow.  Poland's charge with calvary against Panzers?  Wow, very brave but futile and does not make them a great military power.

What kept the Western front open where the Eastern front was a ground war?  Boeing's B-17 and the Lancaster bomber.  There was no railroad, airfield or bike trail in France the Germans could use to reinforce their already depleted forces that we could not touch with DOMINATION of the skies.  Then again, we took out their refineries, machinery plants, you name it to soften their ability to fight.  The Soviets threw what they had the most of - people - against the Panzers that were already running low on spare parts and fuel because of what Bomber Command and the mighty 8th Air Force did to the industrial heart of Germany.

Also, there was a campaign in some place called Italy that drained German forces.  Ever hear of Anzio?  Russia play there of was it Mark Clark's army there?  I need reminding because it seems you have collective amnesia.

Anyway, I do like Sweden.  They have the best massages.

[S.P.S]1on1killa wrote:

KillerAFET wrote:

[S.P.S]1on1killa wrote:

these scientists had a good live in germany, since the government cared about their work........but hey, dont get mad about it, its all history, nuthin' to freak out about......

Einstein was a Jew.  If he invented free electricity the Nazis would have used that power to fry him instead of gassing him.  He and others like Enrico Fermi and Edward Teller escaped in the 1930s because they saw what others had not yet seen. 

Von Braun was under Gestapo surveilance until the very end because he wanted to use rockets for science and not war.  He was arrested in early 1945 for that very same reason.

And, as you detesters of American might, scientific prowess, and economic strength, play on an American designed CPU chip, use the telephone, watch television, fly an airplane, or use ANY device that used the semi-conductor, remember where it came from.  Don't hate a system where there's opportunity for anyone that works hard.   I forgot again, who invented the internet you use to slam Americans on?

Wow, I forgot that Iraq was a terrorist training center that used poison gas on their own people.  So sad that we aggressed on to the Islamo-terrorists after they killed over 3000 Americans, Italians, Spanish, French, English, Swedish, Polish, Japanese, etc. innocents working at the World Trade Center in New York

Sure, many folks hate America because they don't have the same options as the Americans do but remember who helped the Tsunami victims the most, who had the might to airlift tons of supplies to the victims of Afghani earthquakes and who had the power to stop the suffering and torture in Iraq.

just for the record, the Tv was inveted by a german dude named manfred von Ardenne in the 30s, also, the way you say these things sounds like you americans invented EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!  c'mon, gimme a break....your natuon is definetly good with technology and stuff, but who invented the cars you guys like to drive, u? them? NO!!! it were the germans!!!!!!!   man, i wish you all could see my american friends here in germany, they are patriots but STILL accept other nations as equaly "good".........[sry for spelling mistakes]

Didn't mention cars because it was invented by a guy named Benz.  Henry Ford only made them cheaper and available for the masses.  von Ardenne did not invent Television but perfected the CRT.  AT&T first demonstrated a television system developed by one of Bell Lab's scientists, Herbert Ives, again based on the Nipkow disks. GE also demonstrated a mechanical system developed by Ernst Alexanderson.

KillerAFET wrote:

Nehil wrote:

PLEASE EVERY AMERICAN, REPEAT AFTER ME:

2 FRIGGING DIVISIONS

That's what the Almighty USA, Canada and (Not so) Great Britan fought against in Normandy. While over

40 FUCKING DIVISIONS fought the Russians. That's over 80%.

I'm not trying to ignore the war efforts mabe by the USA. But the WAR WOULD HAVE BEEN WON WITHOUT USA. It would have lasted 2 or 3 years more and more live would have been lost, that's for sure. But do you really think you KILLED EVERY GERMAN YOURSELVES? Fuck no I say. Russia was the no.1 nation in most lives lost during WWII, second was Poland.  PLEASE DONT EXAGGERATE THE US WAR EFFORT. Now flame me.

Typical 2 dimensional thinking.  Think Germany would have still lost if the USA did not jump into the war?  Sorry but thinking that the most deaths equal the biggest contribution to the combat success of a nation is just plain stupid.  Russia killed most of their officers in the 1920s and 1930s so leadership was void in Russia.  All the Soviets could do until 1942 was sacrifice their troops in order to buy time until the T-34 could be delivered.  Also, something called WINTER, in fact the coldest winter on record, stopped the Germans within sight of Moscow.  Poland's charge with calvary against Panzers?  Wow, very brave but futile and does not make them a great military power.

What kept the Western front open where the Eastern front was a ground war?  Boeing's B-17 and the Lancaster bomber.  There was no railroad, airfield or bike trail in France the Germans could use to reinforce their already depleted forces that we could not touch with DOMINATION of the skies.  Then again, we took out their refineries, machinery plants, you name it to soften their ability to fight.  The Soviets threw what they had the most of - people - against the Panzers that were already running low on spare parts and fuel because of what Bomber Command and the mighty 8th Air Force did to the industrial heart of Germany.

Also, there was a campaign in some place called Italy that drained German forces.  Ever hear of Anzio?  Russia play there of was it Mark Clark's army there?  I need reminding because it seems you have collective amnesia.

Anyway, I do like Sweden.  They have the best massages.

Hmm, if you want a serious discussion please read my posts back in the thread. But alright I pretty much agree with you exept on one point. The war would have been won without USA. Over 80% of German war efforts was going east. Rest of it was scatterd to North Africa, Italy, Greece and West europe. The allied assult of Normandy was a fucking decoy, a decoy invented by Stalin himself. Just to waste some attention to the west. Hitler knew this and did not send reinforcements cuse he knew the Russians would beat you, beat you in the race to Berlin, and when Normandy was attacked and taken it would not be taken back. The had no reserves to spair exept 13 year olds. And you do mention the best tactic in the world invented by the Russians, called "Just push in as many as you can." Or "Zergling rush." This was not a dumb tactic, cuse if there was one thing the Russians had buttload of it was infantry.

ShowMeKiller wrote:

I would like to say that without everyones help in ww2 things today would have been different. I think several people in this thread needs to study history a little better. Like in this thread a lot of people have a lot to say the difference here in the US we will talk for a little while then do something about it before it spreads like a disease. Maybe we do get involed a lot through out the world taking care of trouble, but it seems like only a few want to help, and no one else really wants to, so they leave it up to the us and a few of our freinds to take care of things. That way they can have someone else to blame for the events since they was not there to help. If a country should invade your country and they are killing your teachers, pasters of your church, and your family, and there is nothing you can do to stop it what will happen? Thats the easy one the US will say stop and get out or we will throw you out. Do you want us to stand around all day and talk about it while people are dying no I dont think so. We the Americans will come to your aid for no more than a reason than it is the right thing to do. There are a lot of things that went into the wars of past but it took  alot of people from all over to make it happen some more than others. Sometimes we think of ourselfs as a body guard helping people who cant help themselfs. Are we always right no we are not, but at least we are willing to step up and try to help not sit back and let it happen. That was the trouble for a lot of counties before ww2 let someone else deal with it. Thanks GB for steping up to the plate on that one you did good. We all live in this small world of ours and we need to work together to make it a great place to live. I would love it if one day we all said hay we dont need any armies any where any more. Wouldn't that be a great day indeed. Lets learn by the past and move on so we dont repeat the same mistaks of the past.

Yes, you are right about one point, without anyone joing the war things sure would look different. Hey about the Freedom (Inc.) thing and how you spread it around the world, DAMN I really love it. Like you did in Iraq (x2), Vietnam, Chile and so on...Yes you are one really freedom loving country ready to kill others just to ensure a steady flow of your black blood. What the heck do you learn in history theses days? How the great Abraham Lincoln freed the black slaves while they worked in his garden? How the French are yellow bastartds that actually helped USA to get free from the British Empire? How the French had more men in USA then USA? Yes, let's all celebrate the great USA and drop some bombs on a random country that might attack us and might have WMD! Then go kill some demoratically elected president (Chile anyone?) and install a facist general
HEIL THE USA AND GOD BLESS US (BUT NOBODY ELSE) AND GIVE US THE RIGHT TO HAVE MINIGUNS IN OUR CLOSETS FOR DUCK HUNTING!

also,

hitler had mutliple heavy water plants, he WAS building nukes. some of these were destroyed by some rather daring raids by the SAS, its well documented.

Nehil wrote:

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Nehil wrote:

Well at what time did USA join? Don't really know but until the end of 1941 everything was going to hell. With or without America. But I still claim that the war would have been won without USA. I don't know if Germany would have gotten any nukes with 2 or 3 more years to work with. I haven't really cared about German chances to develop nukes. I think that Hitler would use them in some extent but not on the battlefields, maybe nuking Moscow and London. Not more, just to demonstrate strenght. But the Russians were producing outrageous amounts of T-34 Heavy Tanks in 1943 and mad amounts of aircrafts too. Hitler would not have time to produce nukes to stop the all. By the way, there aren't any uranim that I know of in europe...

Are you serious? Hitler would've just used the bombs to demonstrate strength? The man was evil in the most biblical sense of the word. He would've decimated entire nations just to get a hardon. He was a disgusting creature that would've murdered hundreds of millions of innocent people if he'd been given the chance.

At the end of 1941 everything was certainly going to hell. It was the US that kept it from doing so completely. THe Allies were losing. Losing. Being defeated. Being crushed, dominated, ruined, destroyed. The Allies were on their way to losing the war when the US came in. The entrance of the US was the biggest turning point in the war. I've yet to see any historian, American or otherwise, contend that.

Hitler may been fucked in the head, but he wasen't crazy. Big difference. Like this country in the 40's can't remeber the name, they had nukes and they did use them on some country, just to frighten Japan to surrender (they already accepted defeat but wanted to keep the Empereor. Something that was unthinkable so they dropped a nuke and killed over 100.000 humans, just so this damn guy would disappear!) They didn't
nuke the whole country luckly.

You really dont know what you are talking about now.

ShowMeKiller wrote:

Nehil wrote:

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Are you serious? Hitler would've just used the bombs to demonstrate strength? The man was evil in the most biblical sense of the word. He would've decimated entire nations just to get a hardon. He was a disgusting creature that would've murdered hundreds of millions of innocent people if he'd been given the chance.

At the end of 1941 everything was certainly going to hell. It was the US that kept it from doing so completely. THe Allies were losing. Losing. Being defeated. Being crushed, dominated, ruined, destroyed. The Allies were on their way to losing the war when the US came in. The entrance of the US was the biggest turning point in the war. I've yet to see any historian, American or otherwise, contend that.

Hitler may been fucked in the head, but he wasen't crazy. Big difference. Like this country in the 40's can't remeber the name, they had nukes and they did use them on some country, just to frighten Japan to surrender (they already accepted defeat but wanted to keep the Empereor. Something that was unthinkable so they dropped a nuke and killed over 100.000 humans, just so this damn guy would disappear!) They didn't
nuke the whole country luckly.

You really dont know what you are talking about now.

So I guess the Almight USA didn't drop a nuke on Nagasaki? Those people just had an massive heart attack and vaporated? Yes, that must have been the case! Sorry about my ignorance my great america overlord. Don't mind me, I'm just a european!

Nehil wrote:

Hitler may been fucked in the head, but he wasen't crazy. Big difference. Like this country in the 40's can't remeber the name, they had nukes and they did use them on some country, just to frighten Japan to surrender (they already accepted defeat but wanted to keep the Empereor. Something that was unthinkable so they dropped a nuke and killed over 100.000 humans, just so this damn guy would disappear!) They didn't nuke the whole country luckly.

Fucked in the head is a better way of saying crazy, though. :p I do believe he was crazy. I try to avoid thinking in terms of "good and evil" because those are things created solely by human society and simply don't exist without us. But still, if anything were to ever fall into that category, that son of a bitch certainly qualifies. He was highly charismatic and extremely intelligent but the man was a sociopath of the most extreme degree. And a vegetarian.

I'm not a fan of the Japan bombings in spite of the fact that it saved countless lives on both sides....besides, they fucking started it. But it's a far cry from the systematic extermination of an entire race. War is one thing, genocide is far beyond that.

I can see you are the type of person that will go on and on just to stir up a little trouble becuase he does not have any kind of life. So to get a little bit of attention he cuases a little trouble. You really have a lot to learn little boy.

Nehil wrote:

So I guess 100.000 dead civilians aren't a big deal? But nearly 3.000 dead in 9-11 is? Sorry Sir but you seem to have your head up your ass. Should I get a life? Sure I'll get another one when you admit that Almighty America Inc. has fucked up sometimes and will fuck up again. I'll bash back tomorrow, I gotta go now cuse Polar bears are attacking my town    (not really dumbass)

I never said it wasn't a big deal. I've always believed that the Japan bombings count as the single largest terrorist attack in history. As justified as it was it most certainly falls into the category of terrorism. But that doesn't mean I would've done differently had I been the one to make the choice.

I would never say that America has done no wrong. I get hounded by right wingers that I'm anti-american yet at the same time bitched at by left wingers.

dshak wrote:

the war would have been won without the US? give me a break. how was that going anyway before we got in? lets see, all of Europe was defeated and occupied except for GB, which was pinned back to its little island and being bombarded like crazy. The Russians didn't turn the tide until Germany actually HAD a second front to worry about,not to mention there's no way the Russians would have been able to hold out on two fronts of their own with japan running unchecked until we stuck our noses in. Hell I'm not even convince that if we hadn't jumped in another agreement wouldn't have been reached between the Soviets and Germany, Stalin didn't give a rats ass about western Europe.

its a pretty shaky position to say Germany would have lost to Russia without us, I don't think there is any way you can argue that, but I KNOW there was no Russian, European, Asian, or any other answer for the Empire of Japan. people tend to forget that the japanese were some bad mothers with a pretty nice little war machine of their own, ask someone from china someday if you need a second opinion.

sorry, but the US is the ONLY reason the allies won WWII. period.

Not rly true. When Germany was crashed and Japan were pressing by the US, Japanese forces still have abot 2 million troops in occuped China. US just didnt have too much men force in this sector. So, later after victory in Europe Russia sent their ground forces to crash the Japanese in China. It wasnt too hard because of mad number of T-34. So, not only U.S. was against Japan.

I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING AGAINST U.S., I JUST CORRECT HISTORICAL FACTS.
\
And you are saying that only because of US Allies won the war? HuH? You makes me laugh man. I can tell you that allies won , no not even because of USSR or leadership or stuff like that. Just because of communist system. Thing they did is they set NKVD squads behind the regular forces and if someone would retreat they will be shot. So they were standing because of fear. I'm not saying that US didnt play their role at all, but saying that BECAUSE OF U.S. ALLIES WON showing no respect to other countries and to people who actually were there. I can tell you next, everybody knows that there were an agreement between Stalin and Hitler about being neutral. And USSR wouldnt even fight. But there had place a Hitler mistake. He thought that he crashed fores in Western Europ and than England were blocked. So he goes against USSR. USSR governmend didnt beleave to spy's reports that Hitler will attack. And didnt even mobilize the forces. USSR wasnt ready. And Hitler thot that he will complete in 3 mounts but stuck here in Eastern Europe. Now lets say that Hitler choose another plan and instead of USSR his and Japan forces attacked U.S. You think U.S. would hold? Hmmm I dont think so. Germans had the best war machine and technology at that time. So as you said Russians couldnt held 2 fronts. Same here, the U.S. couldnt hold their positions and probably independance without Russians. Also I must say that U.S. were able to open the second front much earlier, which could help to save many soldiers lives ion Eastern front. So whatever you say but Russia played major role in this war, simply  because they hold down Germans on East and Germans werent able to send more troops to the west and Africa. And paid for it with more than 25 millions dead officially and who knows how many ppl died in jails etc. So w/e value of patriotism you have you cant kill the facts. War were won mostly because of Russia. So what I want to say is if Russians coudnt hold that long, biggest part of Europe and maybe world could speak a German. And dont say anymore sentences like: WON BEcAUSE OF U.S.
ALLIES WON BECAUSE OF UNITY.

Last edited by Dr.Battlefield (2005-11-22 13:45:18)

Dr.Battlefield wrote:

dshak wrote:

the war would have been won without the US? give me a break. how was that going anyway before we got in? lets see, all of Europe was defeated and occupied except for GB, which was pinned back to its little island and being bombarded like crazy. The Russians didn't turn the tide until Germany actually HAD a second front to worry about,not to mention there's no way the Russians would have been able to hold out on two fronts of their own with japan running unchecked until we stuck our noses in. Hell I'm not even convince that if we hadn't jumped in another agreement wouldn't have been reached between the Soviets and Germany, Stalin didn't give a rats ass about western Europe.

its a pretty shaky position to say Germany would have lost to Russia without us, I don't think there is any way you can argue that, but I KNOW there was no Russian, European, Asian, or any other answer for the Empire of Japan. people tend to forget that the japanese were some bad mothers with a pretty nice little war machine of their own, ask someone from china someday if you need a second opinion.

sorry, but the US is the ONLY reason the allies won WWII. period.

Not rly true. When Germany was crashed and Japan were pressing by the US, Japanese forces still have abot 2 million troops in occuped China. US just didnt have too much men force in this sector. So, later after victory in Europe Russia sent their ground forces to crash the Japanese in China. It wasnt too hard because of mad number of T-34. So, not only U.S. was against Japan.

I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING AGAINST U.S., I JUST CORRECT HISTORICAL FACTS.
\
And you are saying that only because of US Allies won the war? HuH? You makes me laugh man. I can tell you that allies won , no not even because of USSR or leadership or stuff like that. Just because of communist system. Thing they did is they set NKVD squads behind the regular forces and if someone would retreat they will be shot. So they were standing because of fear. I'm not saying that US didnt play their role at all, but saying that BECAUSE OF U.S. ALLIES WON showing no respect to other countries and to people who actually were there. I can tell you next, everybody knows that there were an agreement between Stalin and Hitler about being neutral. And USSR wouldnt even fight. But there had place a Hitler mistake. He thought that he crashed fores in Western Europ and than England were blocked. So he goes against USSR. USSR governmend didnt beleave to spy's reports that Hitler will attack. And didnt even mobilize the forces. USSR wasnt ready. And Hitler thot that he will complete in 3 mounts but stuck here in Eastern Europe. Now lets say that Hitler choose another plan and instead of USSR his and Japan forces attacked U.S. You think U.S. would hold? Hmmm I dont think so. Germans had the best war machine and technology at that time. So as you said Russians couldnt held 2 fronts. Same here, the U.S. couldnt hold their positions and probably independance without Russians. Also I must say that U.S. were able to open the second front much earlier, which could help to save many soldiers lives ion Eastern front. So whatever you say but Russia played major role in this war, simply  because they hold down Germans on East and Germans werent able to send more troops to the west and Africa. And paid for it with more than 25 millions dead officially and who knows how many ppl died in jails etc. So w/e value of patriotism you have you cant kill the facts. War were won mostly because of Russia. So what I want to say is if Russians coudnt hold that long, biggest part of Europe and maybe world could speak a German. And dont say anymore sentences like: WON BEcAUSE OF U.S.
ALLIES WON BECAUSE OF UNITY.

Germany had the U.S.S.R. in a bad way. they lost there Agracultarel, Oil productin and most of there Industrail Areas. The lost ALL there Cold weather Ports. The USA kept them alive with Ice Breakers on the Murmansk Run and Fed them and kept the supplied or it would have been Bye Bye Ivan.