BF2S Forums Sniper effectiveness doubters look here...

Tushers wrote:

YAY Snipers FTW or medics IDK whos gonna win the claymore war...i think i rly rly want the snipers to win ugh... to many fucking questions...

should i quit being a support noob?
ops wrong quote

Last edited by SoC./Omega (2006-07-16 10:18:23)

Aegis wrote:

.....You weren't killing anything useful like armor or jeeps... you know, the things that take the people to cap flags. Being a "God amongst snipers" still leaves you with an inability to do anything but pick off a few guys at range.....

Hmm,the people that try to cap a flag usually run into my claymores,the first claymore kill is my wake up call to get there and neutralize the flag-cappers.

And if you choose the M95 you have the ability to pick off anything except tanks!!Just check my M95 anti-material damge chart in the featured post section.
I took down dozens of attack and transport choppers with the M95,a few days ago I shot down some noob who was trying to hover around in his F-35.

And when getting 35/0 in a round isn't effective and helpful for the team then I don't know what is.
Don't bash the sniper class if you don't know what you are talking about.

Yes, every kit CAN be useless but snipers more so but the good snipers are more useful...

CHroNo wrote:

but did you win the round
nah
most sniper whore have shitty W/L Ratio
that just prove how useless sniper rifles can be

That statement is just bullshit,as if one player could make a difference in winning the round.
If your team sucks you are going to lose,no matter how good you are,no matter what class.
That doesn't prove anything about sniper rifles.

And I don't claim to have a good W/L-ratio,it's not up to me to win the round by myself,there's still a team effort.
I just take care of one flag and try to keep my K/D-ratio as high as possible during the round,and that's still more effective than running from one flag to the next one and get killed dozens of times during the process.

I use the sniper class all the time, and I destroy in close to med range combat. No-scope headshots, or one shot then a pistol kill. Plus claymores are instant kills.

usmarine2005 wrote:

I like you dude, and I like your posts.  But some of these guys have a point about capturing flags.

Snipers don't cap flags?O rly?
What about jetwhores?Haven't seen a guy a J-10 capping a flag yet...

I've been capping flags a bit more lately,when you got 2 claymores and a nice spot to hide it can work out,it helps when you are squadleader and people spawn on you in the right moment.
But usually I'd say that it's kinda risky to cap flags with long range equipment,not the main task of a sniper.
And as if the other f*ckin' classes would do their f*ckin' job!
Need ammo or first aid?Then you are sh*t out of luck with some of those sniperbashing "teamplayers"!

Besides,the topic gets kinda old...fact is:
People are just bashing the sniper class because the kills of a sniper are embarrassing for the victim.
You run into claymores?Noob!
You get hit from out of nowhere,have 2 bars left and just keep on standing around?Noob!
You spend unnecessary time in the gunner seat of a transport or a stinger site(as in being a target!)?Noob!
The list could go on and on....

I didn't say they don't, and I agree with the flyboys, but comparatively no, snipers do not cap flags, comparatively.

Widjerd wrote:

Todd_Angelo wrote:

assault
medic
medic
spec ops or AT
support
sniper

more like no sniper and stick an AT in there

Why? So that you have a second guy who has no long-range ability to speak of? The support player would make sure the AT never runs out of ammo and the medics are there to help if he gets hurt or killed when you come up against armour. A second AT would help with armour sure, but leave you vulnerable in other areas.

ShotYourSix wrote:

Nyte wrote:

If any of you want testimonials of me, go to the PlanetBattlefield forums.

People are commenting on how awesome of a squad leader I am.

In fact, just google me up (I've done it myself ) and you'll see a bunch of people saying I kick ass (which I do).

My god.  You really ARE as annoying as they said.  Guess I didn't believe them the first time.

Don't take him too seriously; I'm sure he doesn't either

Mj.Blindfisch wrote:

...a K/D-ratio of 1.8 with the sniper rifle doesn't sound like kicking ass to me.

Play like he plays, see what your KDR is like (see what your stats are like, period). It's hard.

Chikyuu Shoujo Arujuna wrote:

Mj.Blindfisch wrote:

.....a K/D-ratio of 1.8 with the sniper rifle doesn't sound like kicking ass to me.

but a KPM of 0.97 sounds kick ass to me.

Well said. It's even higher if you check recent activity (1.30 for the last month).

Mj.Blindfisch, for roughly equal periods your infantry KPM is 0.69 to Nyte's 1.39. Chiky's is 1.3, BushViper's is 1.49, Volx's is 3.01.

Aegis wrote:

Snipers = mostly useless.

Mostly? Hmmm, maybe. At least you didn't say completely

Aegis wrote:

BF2 is a game of armored mobility, period.

On some maps sure. But I've outscored guys in armour and helos on the same map and I'm not even that good.

Aegis wrote:

So what if you got 25 kills in a round? You weren't killing anything useful like armor or jeeps... you know, the things that take the people to cap flags. Being a "God amongst snipers" still leaves you with an inability to do anything but pick off a few guys at range.

A few guys?

As far as flags go, what're your flag points like? Oh and what's the most flags you've capped in a single round? In fact let's just see your stats; I'm going to presume you go armour a lot.

CHroNo wrote:

but did you win the round
nah
most sniper whore have shitty W/L Ratio
that just prove how useless sniper rifles can be

What is a bad win/loss ratio? What's a good win/loss ratio? Does win/loss ratio even matter? Apparently not much.

Just because you're one of the better players in the world it's not appropriate to apply your standard to everyone who plays... apply them even to the cream of the crop and some will come up short You could be just as critical (legitimately) of virtually anyone who plays any class and prefers to go infantry... like show me a medic or assault player who's single-handedly responsible for their team's win. If there are any it'll be a small, and very select, group. This is a TEAM game, as a rule nobody wins the game for their team by themselves, with a few obvious exceptions like good pilots in a J-10 on Wake or something like that.

Oh and P.S., you have to be a whore if you do something too much eh? What's your whorage du jour then?

jonsimon wrote:

...No-scope headshots...

Sorry, but that's luck.

usmarine2005 wrote:

I didn't say they don't, and I agree with the flyboys, but comparatively no, snipers do not cap flags, comparatively.

That's true: most snipers DO NOT cap flags (much or at all).

But not all; and it's the sweeping generalisations that we're trying to counter here.

He he, thats some nice HTML there sharpshot.. BB code for this forum

Snipers are not amazingly useful, (My opinion obviously) The next least useful kit is Engineer (After dropping mines) Reasons for this? Mainly because a sniper will usually wait near a flag for the enemy to attack, when they do he will try and take out as many as possible, however he will rarely take them all out due to the act that at least one will be in a vehicle and secondly if a lone infantry man gets sniped, he'll know where you are and kill you 15 seconds later (+ travelling time)

I think that the most useful kit is AT (But then i would becasue it's my sig kit) reasons being theres no one i have no-chance against, except maybe jets but they're in a class of their own. Some would say Medic but those shockpaddles aint gonna take down that APC.

Snipers fall in for alot of badmouthing because it doesnt really help the team in as much as help the funness of the game for other players. Forget Win Loss, it's not important, what is important is working toegtehr to achieve objectives and beat an oponent, being sniped from extreme range or accidnelty walking into a claymore is not being outclassed, it's a bit cheap really. What use is a sniper HONESTLY in a squad? A spotter? Lawl!

Mj.Blindfisch wrote:

That statement is just bullshit,as if one player could make a difference in winning the round.

Yes, he can.

"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world"

One person can win the round. One person can set off an entire chain of events, drastically influencing the game. Or just by skill (mr. Uber jet pilot, solo chopper guy, or a quick medic)

The sniper class may OR may not be useful.  The answer to the sniper question on the table is not inherently based upon the class, but on the particular person and how he uses it.  In a given match, a sniper may be valuable to the team, or he may well not.  Again, it comes down to the particular person and how he plays the game.

My question here is why is this topic so hotly debated?  I could give a fuck if snipers are useful or not.  I like the game, therefore I play it.  To each his own.  After all, that is what gaming is all about right?  Or has gaming moved on to a point where it is no longer about having fun?  To read some of the posts here, I would imagine many of you have forgotten what fun is.  BF2 has become a second job for many here.  Gotta get the points.  Gotta get those medals and ribbons.  Gotta look good so I can post a link to my stats.  Gotta fucking gotta fucking gotta........

When did this game become less about having some fun for a few hours and become all about ME.  Thats what I see here in the forums time and time again.  ME ME ME ME ME! 

Jesus fucking christ people, forget about all this shit and go have some fun playing the goddamn game, or have you forgotten that it is just a fucking video game.

Eh......seem to have gotten a quite a bit off tangent there.  I'll stop at that.

Last edited by ShotYourSix (2006-07-16 15:18:39)

Wow, so many points and angles to measure effectiveness.  I do love a debate.  Well, here's some thoughts I've been having.

Aegis wrote:

Snipers = mostly useless. BF2 is a game of armored mobility, period.

So what if you got 25 kills in a round? You weren't killing anything useful like armor or jeeps... you know, the things that take the people to cap flags. Being a "God amongst snipers" still leaves you with an inability to do anything but pick off a few guys at range. Feel free to wave as your bullets *plink* off the skin of my MiG or my M1A1. The sniper never has been, and never will be anything more than a niche role in this world of BF2. 'Tis fun tho.

Armored mobility isn't the end all, be all to the game.  A few reasons:

1.  Armored mobility isn't really very "mobile."  Yes, it gets to flags quicker, but it's generally a larger, juicier target against aircraft, and clever guerrilla tactics from more mobile AT and spec-ops.
2.  Armor is generally better at being a support asset to ground troops.

Given that your stats aren't easily accessed, and your post was considerably more well thought out than this following "armor advocate" (vehicle, more precisely), let's do a quick comparison:

ig88 wrote:

the only thing a sniper is useful for is shooting people out of a jet or chopper w/ m95 which is gay as well which is why snipers are gay as hell!

Hmm...  I have half the captured CPs as ig88, half the capture assists as ig88, two-thirds the defended CPs as ig88, and all that at half the total time that ig88 has.

Notability's:

Half of my total time is as a sniper.
An eighth of his total time is sniper.
About a half of his time is vehicle time.
About a fifth of my time is vehicle time.
Team Win/Loss ratio is similar.  However, team win/loss is usually kinda hard to judge solely upon one player, but we'll compare anyways.

Conclusion:

As a part time sniper, I think I compare with ig88 in usefulness.  If he can't see that, then you might as well change his statement to:

"The only thing a armor/helicopter whore is useful for is spawn-raping, which is gay, as well.  Which is why vehicle whores are gay as hell!"

However, given that I'm not one to knock the usefulness of pretty much anything in the game, I can't back this statement seriously.

Anyways, let's do a comparison to an obviously skilled player, who said the following:

CHroNO wrote:

but did you win the round
nah
most sniper whore have shitty W/L Ratio
that just prove how useless sniper rifles can be

I have a little under half the captured CPs as CHroNo, a little over half the capture assists as CHroNo, a little under the same defended CPs as CHroNo, and all that at half the total time that CHroNo has.

Notability's:

Half of my total time is as a sniper.
Half of his total time is filling "team" roles of medic and support.
About a third of his time is vehicle time.
About a fifth of my time is vehicle time.
His Team Win/Loss ratio is higher.

With the exception of WLR, our flag capturing/defending stats are very comparable.

usmarine2005 wrote:

....  But some of these guys have a point about capturing flags.

Yes, I agree, but if you look at the comparisons I put above, they really don't have a leg to stand on when making that claim.

Am I disagreeing with you that some snipers aren't very helpful towards their teams?  Not at all.

In fact, most new (green) snipers start out with the kit, because they're trying to not die all the time, and they can slowly (albeit, very slowly) work their way into whatever role they're wanting to fill.  However, in my opinion, the sniper kit is probably one of the hardest kits to be effective with, and takes considerably longer time to become "good" with.  On the other hand, I think the medic kit is probably the best "starter" kit to play, and is relatively easy to become "good" at.  Of course, this is all just my opinion.

------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion:

Most people who say that the sniper kit "sucks," are usually making a general comparison against the majority based upon what they've experienced from their point of views when playing their preferred kit.  However, when statements, like the above, are mentioned, and can be rebutted with examples... does that mean that their broad interpretations are correct?

I leave that for you to answer yourself.