BF2S Forums Question for americans

cpt.fass1 wrote:

I'm going to try to make this as neutral as I can.

Why is it that almost all the American's who are prowar and for rebuilding a country in the middle east are against our government improving our lives?  We could be building better school and giving away higher education, health care plans, or dumping more money into our privatly owned companies(this is going to bring great flaming).  So why are we throwing money into a culture that will never accept our way of life and who are taught to hate the west because we formed a country that they never wantted in the middle of their culture? Now I really want to know the mind set of the people who think this "war on Terror" is a great idea, please no flaming.



Under the guise of Freedom we bring war to an other country, the terrorist could say the same exact thing. They could say that they were trying to destroy our financle instutions to make all american's debt free which would technically make us free, Right?

Nobody has every asked the U.S.A. to police the world and they don't get angry at us when we keep to ourselves, look at the clinton years we had so many more allies.

You, Sir, have rekindled my faith in the american people.. +1

Your country would never have been attacked had your government not pursued such aggressive foreign policies and it's refreshing to hear an american saying your money could be better spent.

You'll get the usual, ultra nationalist jocks (whittsend, kr@cker etc) who WILL NOT hear anything bad against their nation, even if it is discussed in a debate forum, and their associated uber defensive remarks but do as I do and imagine they live in the hills, with rifles under their pillows and neo nazi propaganda on their walls. It's probably quite close to the mark.

I had so much respect for Clinton; from an outsiders perspective he appeared a president who actually cared more about what was going on in the US as opposed to the rest of the world.

Anyway good post!

RicardoBlanco wrote:

I had so much respect for Clinton; from an outsiders perspective he appeared a president who actually cared more about what was going on in the US as opposed to the rest of the world.

Don't you mean he cared more about his intern?

I hate to point this out but there plenty of attacks during the Clinton years and the 9/11 attack came before Bush had much opportunity to pursue 'aggressive foreign policies'. Also, Clinton used the military both in Kosovo AND in Iraq, so trying to lay 'policing the world' on the doorstep of the current administration is simply disingenuous.

TheEqualizer wrote:

RicardoBlanco wrote:

I had so much respect for Clinton; from an outsiders perspective he appeared a president who actually cared more about what was going on in the US as opposed to the rest of the world.

Don't you mean he cared more about his intern?

Lol, her too, guess it was his way of winding down after a busy day in the office...works for me!

Read a book called

America's Secret War by George Friedman

Very very good, interesting, neutral, and explains all the neccesary lies and the real reasons for the war.

for one thing, it's smoke and miirrors misdirection, now, all the fighting is happening on the terrorist's home turf, as opposed to them brining it to ours like they have for decades.....sssshhhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone


there are plenty of plans out there by us bloodthirsty war mongering neo-cons, but since they take power out of the hands of the government, like privatizing the school system, they are furiously opposed by the libs and their buddies in the press, you'll also find that the tax cuts encourage private/small business ownership, or even dennis haster's fair tax bill, if enacted it would have eventually resulted in the elimination of the IRS, which is one of the tools that the more liberal parties use to keep a stranglehold on the american corporate sector

as for the war on terror, if we don't go and make some changes, the rest of our history will be more of the same, diplomacy and negotiations accomplish nothing with these people, appeasement tactics, like clinton used with north korea, only result in them wanting to be appeased more, the only things that have been proven to combat islamic jihaadism are education and freedom, during the times that the likes of Iran and Iraq were known as the free and educated leaders of the muslim world, they were the most peaceful, then you end up with the Ayatollah Kohmeini (sp I know) oppressing people in the name of religion, and Hussein, oppressing people in the name of his ego and legacy, telling people who can and can't go to work, who gets to go to school, what they are taught in school, when the Taliban was removed from power in Afghanistan school books were found teaching that the life of an Arab is worth twice the life of anyone else, the Khoran, which explicitly states that it is you duty to kill those who don't convert, is the main course of study, the only way to combat this is to open the doors for everyone to have the same access to everything, the fighting over there has never stopped, the question was whether or not we wanted to get involved

it's ridiculous to blame american culture which has only been around for a couple of centuries, for the violence and oppression that has existed among Islamic culture for millenia

and technically, Kuwait did ask us to be the world police


America...FUCK YEAH!!

being named as a negative by someon that respects someon like clinton is a compliment

damn, i started writing this when the topic was new

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-07-14 09:02:41)

put the money in the hands of the people, quit taking it and redistributing it

What people don't understand is that Middle Eastern countries teach there children from an early age to hate Westerners.  i.e. Europe and America.  This will not stop they want to force their beliefs on the world.  If you don't follow them they will kill you.( look at China if your are found to be Christian you will be put to death)  We can not sit back and wait for them to obtain the technology to start destroying our cites in Europe and the U.S. 

What did we do to deserve 9/11?  What did the UK do to deserve the subway and bus bombings.  What did India do to deserve their train bombings?  Nothing it is about religion.  We believe in freedom of religion and they don't.

I will be very happy when we get a new President (after elections) and nothing changes.  Terrorists will still be attacking people and many people will die.  Who are you gonna blame then when Bush isn't there to even blame. 

Also Iraq enjoys their new life its the insurgents that are trying to destabilize it because the beliefs of freedom being so close to home scares them.

Edit: wrote this before seeing kr@cker's post there is some retouchig on topics he discussed

Last edited by Colfax (2006-07-14 09:10:16)

I'm all for closing up our borders and stopping all aid to foreign countries. No apreciates it anyways so I say fuck 'em.

me too, and get the hell out if you don't like it, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya

You all make reasonable points, but are missing one of the core parts of the question:  How can the U.S. Government justify $BILLIONS in spending and aid to foregin countries (as well as throwing open the doors to illegal aliens) when we have U.S. Citizens that can't pay for their own meds, we have schools that fail to teach children because we don't pay teachers enough, police & emergency personnel who are undertrained & ill equipped (as well as underpaid) and no where near enough research into getting off an oil based economy?

That's the basic issue.  It's time we stopped spending our cash on folks who would rather kill us than anything else.

kr@cker wrote:

for one thing, it's smoke and miirrors misdirection, now, all the fighting is happening on the terrorist's home turf, as opposed to them brining it to ours like they have for decades.....sssshhhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone


there are plenty of plans out there by us bloodthirsty war mongering neo-cons, but since they take power out of the hands of the government, like privatizing the school system, they are furiously opposed by the libs and their buddies in the press, you'll also find that the tax cuts encourage private/small business ownership, or even dennis haster's fair tax bill, if enacted it would have eventually resulted in the elimination of the IRS, which is one of the tools that the more liberal parties use to keep a stranglehold on the american corporate sector

as for the war on terror, if we don't go and make some changes, the rest of our history will be more of the same, diplomacy and negotiations accomplish nothing with these people, appeasement tactics, like clinton used with north korea, only result in them wanting to be appeased more, the only things that have been proven to combat islamic jihaadism are education and freedom, during the times that the likes of Iran and Iraq were known as the free and educated leaders of the muslim world, they were the most peaceful, then you end up with the Ayatollah Kohmeini (sp I know) oppressing people in the name of religion, and Hussein, oppressing people in the name of his ego and legacy, telling people who can and can't go to work, who gets to go to school, what they are taught in school, when the Taliban was removed from power in Afghanistan school books were found teaching that the life of an Arab is worth twice the life of anyone else, the Khoran, which explicitly states that it is you duty to kill those who don't convert, is the main course of study, the only way to combat this is to open the doors for everyone to have the same access to everything, the fighting over there has never stopped, the question was whether or not we wanted to get involved

it's ridiculous to blame american culture which has only been around for a couple of centuries, for the violence and oppression that has existed among Islamic culture for millenia

and technically, Kuwait did ask us to be the world police


America...FUCK YEAH!!

being named as a negative by someon that respects someon like clinton is a compliment

damn, i started writing this when the topic was new

Kracker, please explain your philosophy on why we were attacked in the first place.  Second, can you ever remember a time in American history when we were despised, hated and had our military stretched to points that we cannot handle another conflict, or god forbid a national emergency at home where troops could be used.  This President and his "Cowboy diplomacy" has placed us in this situation.  I will concede it was not all his doing.  But, his demeanor and aggressive posture on foreign matters has made us all look bad.  I will also concede during the last election there were not a lot of choices.  Okay the last two elections.  I also have to say I cringe everytime he speaks to the foreign press.  He is supposed to represent the US people when most  10th grade students could do a better job at public speaking.