unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

Of greatest interest to me in any adaptation or remake isn't so much how accurate it is to source material, as how well it can tell *a* story and stand on its own. If I could watch the live action of this start to finish and it would be rather average for the genre, with a somewhat cohesive plot, that would be fine.

Shows start to bug me when characters make decisions that don't make sense for the characters to make. The noticeable fingers in the pie, writers taking over and "forcing" things to happen. Game of Thrones, for instance. I don't think you can call me unreasonable on that now.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3689
The issue with adaptions that leads to the stuff I detailed on the last page is probably that it is very expensive to make a t.v. show. Plenty of Youtubers can make long videos explaining what the show creators and others have said about the show since the 90's but none of these youtube people have 10 million dollars to make their adaption.

Instead you get Harvey Weinstein fronting the money to get a chance to feel up a girl auditioning for the female lead.
https://i.etsystatic.com/13912301/r/il/d65c72/3341836885/il_fullxfull.3341836885_m57g.jpg
Then the weirdos like Weinstein make a decision to rewrite vast parts of the story in order to make the chilling silent antagonist a whiny main character. And of course he has the money so who is to tell him no?


Characters doing something out of um character can sometimes be forgiven since people do strange things all of the time.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

Imagine the disappointment of some Star Wars fans when stoic, unforgiving Vader was depicted as always whining about stuff as a teenage Jedi. Not a whole lot of recourse for that, still canon. The meditation capsule, actually a sulking chamber. lmao
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3689
https://i.redd.it/6rym0j84f5181.jpg

In the anime a character has gynecomastia after being given an experimental drug in prison after being framed for a crime he didn't commit. In the Netflix show they made the character fully trans which is way off.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3422
his name is robert paulson
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

What wrongs of the anime specifically is that? That a character who wasn't transgender (didn't watch the anime, just assuming) wasn't depicted transgender? I think it's probably worse to fold those very two different things into a single "transgender" package. "Gynecomastia as an unwanted side-effect? Very obviously transgender!" *progressiveness stops*

Also yes, definitely fight club vibes.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3689
The "Green Birds (Church)" scene from the Cowboy Bebop Anime is one of the most iconic from the show. Here is a comparison between the Netflix live action vs the Anime.


The low quality of the live action one isn't the thing that bothers me...the rewriting of the entire story...fucking hurts man.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

What a thankless task, making a live-action adaptation of an anime. Gamers and anime nerds are among the worst fans, I think. Lots of unnecessary changes probably, but even close adaptations of stuff have been picked apart. "Lazy filmmakers, stolen ideas. Already seen this stuff. Could've changed it up a bit!" "The floor tiles aren't in the same spots!"
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3689
Did you even watch the video or did you assume people were mad about floor tiles?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

Watched it. Yeah, there were storytelling differences there. My point is that people are unpleasable either way.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3689
Does this look good to you?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,736|6707|Oxferd Ohire
It's cancelled. You must be happy
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Larssen
Member
+99|1857
I'd like to petition netflix and hollywood to never try making anime crossovers again because it doesn't work. It's already a form of visual storytelling that absolutely doesn't and will never translate well to the 'real world'. The fact that it is anime allows artists lots of creative liberty inserting absurdities and alternative facts/realities that only pass suspension of disbelief because it's an anime.

There have been a few too many attempts at crossovers from that genre into filmmaking and each. and. every. one. is. shit.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3689
This is the best episode of Cowboy Bebop. It's episode 5 of 23.
https://youtu.be/ixOh7KzfF2M

So grounded. It is really unlike so many other flamboyant anime. It's very much like Akira in it's serious tone. The episode is only 24 minutes please watch it.


And then
Spoiler (highlight to read):
This is the first appearance of the main villain of the story. The antagonist only shows up for three episodes and his total screen to is less than 15 minutes. Making this mysterious and scary villain into what the live action did... criminal.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

Larssen wrote:

I'd like to petition netflix and hollywood to never try making anime crossovers again because it doesn't work. It's already a form of visual storytelling that absolutely doesn't and will never translate well to the 'real world'. The fact that it is anime allows artists lots of creative liberty inserting absurdities and alternative facts/realities that only pass suspension of disbelief because it's an anime.

There have been a few too many attempts at crossovers from that genre into filmmaking and each. and. every. one. is. shit.
Why live action anime fails is well explored by comic book, anime, and movie writers. A lot bring up that cartoons don't transition smoothly into live action because of reasons you mentioned.

In addition, the whitewashing in western cinema, for very not innocently innocuous reasons, is notorious and doesn't do the adaptations any favors from a critical standpoint. Of course, if we're talking about aliens and mutants, any human you cast in the role could be considered race- or even species-bending.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

A comparison to converting between one medium to another: the loss of fidelity each time a thing is run through Google Translate. Comparing source to port can be about as off-putting as reading subtitles that don't match the dialog.

Book-based movies too can be problematic. Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, Clan of the Cave Bear.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3689
Not all comics adapt well to screen.
https://kbimages1-a.akamaihd.net/d7ec038d-f87f-4a3b-b8a0-7a73112f9a91/1200/1200/False/archie-comics-digest-255.jpg
Superhero comics are a subset of comics that do well on screen. Something like the Cowboy Bebop video I linked above can translate well to television. The people who did the Netflix show just screwed it up.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

Archie is like it's own complete vibe, I dunno man.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Dredd translated well, fanbase too small.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USATODAY/GenericImages/2012/09/21/USATDreddReview-4_3.jpg?quality=50&width=640

https://hips.hearstapps.com/digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/12/03/comics_judge_dredd_promo.jpg?resize=480:*

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-12-11 00:18:48)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

I love how live action movies always try and subdue comic colors.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Well the first one didn't

https://andygaudion93.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/judge-dredd-1995.jpg

There were many good features of that film in terms of truetotheoriginalness.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3422

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

A comparison to converting between one medium to another: the loss of fidelity each time a thing is run through Google Translate. Comparing source to port can be about as off-putting as reading subtitles that don't match the dialog.

Book-based movies too can be problematic. Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, Clan of the Cave Bear.
it's a bad analogy. 'adaptation' is not 'conversion'. you don't expect perfect fidelity or 1:1 translation. thinking about a creative process in terms of data signal:noise or literalism is a wrongheaded way to go about it, i think. every medium has its own unique felicities and the end-product should change to reflect that.

even literary translation, as opposed to communicative translation, is not a simple matter. translating a novel or poem from french to english, or from german to japanese, is not a simple matter of getting the right words in the right order. there's higher-level creative processes going on, artistic decisions, questions of tone, style, temperament; you're translating a culture and a worldview as well as a bunch of syntactical units with parseable meanings.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

The analogy was made because nerds are expecting perfect fidelity. They are upset when it isn't a 1:1 conversion. It's unreasonable to expect that sort of thing when turning an animation into a live-action movie or vice versa, converting books into movies, or even robo-translating as the rudimentary analogy.

I'm aware that translations made by multilingual people who do that sort of thing for a living aren't 1:1 either because of reasons, but the potential is there for more thought being put into it. Still, some nerd will point out how something that was said in the original Japanese version (itself a corruption of the oRiGiNaL cOmIc) was ruined by a dub.

Like I said before, adapting this stuff is sometimes a thankless task.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

This isn't to say though that every change made in one of these things is actually well thought out, planned, "purely for the good of the medium." Sometimes the nerds have a point, and a tweak made by a director of an adaptation comes back to bite him in the butt as a plot hole in one of the sequels.

Historical advisors, fashion advisors, military advisers: well used to being ignored as well.

"Give me exotic music, I want something that nobody's ever heard before!"
*creates exotic sounds after exhaustive research*
"OK now tweak this to sound completely western."

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