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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,756|5223|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

accept some RESPONSIBILITY.
I'd be really happy to stop exporting coal, gas and beef. Then I'm sure Australia's emissions would be right on.

You can go tell Indians they can't have lights or refrigerators, the Chinese they can't have heating and the Japanese they can't have a steel industry - they can all figure out an alternative themselves - while you enjoy your coal and oil powered lifestyle living in a steel and concrete apartment and beef lunches in one of the most densely populated and carbon intensive countries in the world.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2570
your consumer emissions are still way higher than the average, dilbert. read the report. 1.4% of global emissions with industry/exports subtracted.

how can you justify emitting so much relative to the global population size? can't you account for your own privilege?

punching down on dirt-poor peasants who dare to cook with inefficient stoves isn't good enough. it's you, your people, your countrymen, your civilization, your western way of life that has contributed the vast bulk of greenhouse emissions over the last century or so.

i've eaten red meat about 3 times, that i can recall, in the last 6 months. your obsession with diet is misguided. i highly doubt the entirety of your vegetarian/vegan foodstuffs are grown and sourced locally. you partake in global supply chains and deforestation crops too. do better chap! the indian peasants seem to have 'ethical' food sourcing sorted out.

Last edited by uziq (2021-11-18 00:34:41)

uziq
Member
+426|2570
Ah no, their population growth slows, not the same as a cut. Words are complex I know.
when the birth-rate drops below 2 and stays that way – as it seems to have done for the last generation of westerners – then the population drops.

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-10/Birth-rate-drops-to-all-time-low-in-England-and-Wales--W5DTQLFhzq/img/ae4f081fdd98486db37da70aa78beb2f/ae4f081fdd98486db37da70aa78beb2f.png

https://www.ons.gov.uk/chartimage?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/birthsummarytablesenglandandwales/2019/e7fe0cc0

numbers are complex, i know.

the death rate will increase dramatically over the next century as the boomers and their big families die out, and the birth rate will continue to slow or stabilize. most advanced nations' populations will stabilize – and then decline.

it's almost like there have been large-scale studies and forecasts about global population. none of them exhibit continual and exponential growth forever.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,756|5223|eXtreme to the maX
Erm except the population isn't dropping, thanks to immigration, so actually nothing is achieved.

most advanced nations' populations will stabilize – and then decline
And they'll all be displaced and then some by Indians and asians so it won't matter.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2570
lol. you really do display the entire potpourri of fascist right-wing tendencies around population. it's amazing – like a full deck of cards.

you've got the vague, vestigial and victorian malthusian stuff going on (people are breeding too much and putting strain on resources), mixed with a wellsian twist in which an underclass of morlocks seem to occupy most of your fears. you've got great replacement theory in there, the idée du jour for all cultural conservatives and islamophobes and xenophobes. it wouldn't surprise me if, somewhere in the back of your imagination, you harbour some incel-lite views, as well, about the scarcity of available women because all the goodlooking and empty-headed 'chads' picking them up. population really is something like an hysteria for you.

global population is not forecasted to grow forever. we probably will need discussion about birth-rate control and family planning in the future, but the ingress of immigrant populations to support the labour force/ageing population is hardly tipping the balance. immigrants tend to migrate to developed countries, which, in the right scenario, if we actually got our acts together, would be the ones in the best place to transition to green and low-carbon societies. duh.

again, the proximate concern here is the use of fossil fuels. diverting to talk of population is just distracting from the real pressing issue. your government are intending to massively upscale their fossil-fuel exports in the next FIVE years. the great global population squeeze or the great white replacement are not happening in the same timescale.

take some responsibility.

Last edited by uziq (2021-11-18 01:47:10)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,756|5223|eXtreme to the maX
Problem is third world countries over-produce themselves, they then migrate to first world countries - which would otherwise see population reductions - and adopt CO2 intensive first world lifestyles, and so the cycle repeats.

There's no hint at all of the global population growth slowing, plenty of wishful thinking but no evidence at all.

https://www.futuretimeline.net/subject/images/world-population-graph-2050-2100.jpg

diverting to talk of population is just distracting from the real pressing issue
No, CO2 is tied to population, population IS the pressing issue.

https://overpopulation-project.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/population-vs-co2.png
#Freed Britney !
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+507|2837
I disagree about population growth being a bad thing. Reproduction is a fundamental aspect of life. What kind of nightmare reality do we want to live in where people are denied one of life's greatest joys?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+426|2570
dilbert doesn't have children so, of course, the biggest problem is people having children. he's turned his reproductive failure in life into a great heroic virtue.

just think, if rich and developed countries like australia used their luxury-lifestyles to take the lead, we could begin to decouple population growth from co2 emissions. we have the technology and countries like australia have the wealth. they just don't want to give up their huge exports income.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,756|5223|eXtreme to the maX
If people would just stop consuming our resources we wouldn't be selling them.

Think of the children.
#Freed Britney !
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,756|5223|eXtreme to the maX
"Senator Joe Manchin is a walking conflict of interest," said Craig Holman, a lobbyist specialising in government ethics for non-profit watchdog Public Citizen.

"And it shows up in his efforts to try to sabotage the clean climate policies of President Biden.

"He is making a fortune – and his family is making a fortune – off of dirty energy, and yet he is in a position of determining the American policy when it comes to climate change."

Senator Manchin, who chairs the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources, is the sole reason a program to rapidly replace coal- and gas-fired power plants with wind, solar and nuclear energy was cut from the Build Back Better plan.

The 50-50 split in the Senate, however, means he — or another senator — can essentially veto the Democrats' entire agenda.

"That puts him in a far more powerful position than even President Biden or anyone else," Mr Holman said.

"And he is exercising that undue influence."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-19/ … /100596598

uziq can go bother this Munchkin guy.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2570
i have written at grotesque length about how the global system of politics and power is based on the fossil-fuel economy.

no shit that politicians are corrupted or paid huge sums by lobbyists. that's because the oil corporations are the most powerful businesses on the planet.

iF peOpLe juSt stOp buYinG tHeiR peTroL tHeN theY'LL gO aWay
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,756|5223|eXtreme to the maX
Consumers can turn the tide.

Solar power in Australia outstrips coal-fired electricity for first time
This article is more than 2 months old
For a fleeting moment on the weekend more than half the nation’s electricity generation came from solar power, but experts say Australia is still a long way from peak renewable energy

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n … first-time

Up to five of Australia’s remaining 16 coal power plants could be financially unviable by 2025 due to a flood of cheap solar and wind energy entering the electricity grid, a new report suggests.

An analysis by two groups – the consultants Green Energy Markets and the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis (Ieefa) – found previous estimates had understated the amount of renewable energy likely to enter the national electricity market in the next five years, and its ramifications for the ageing coal fleet.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n … le-by-2025

Amazing

Just as if people stopped buying cocaine the south american drug cartels would be out of business.

uziq wrote:

But I need someone to take my decisions for me
There there son, it will all be OK, the big boys will take it from here.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2570
the south american drug cartels are an institution in their own right. they won't stop existing if people stop buying cocaine. they have already diversified into many other lines of business. as long as things are banned and illegal, there will be criminal enterprises to service them. the cartels main export by volume for many years was actually marijuana.

who do i need to make decisions for me? seeing the need for top-down, policy-directed action is not exactly the same as being helpless. consumer choice cannot shut down coal-fired power stations.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,756|5223|eXtreme to the maX
People putting solar panels on their roofs and making contracts with green energy suppliers has shut down coal fired power stations.

Also voting for govts which promote wind and solar power.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2570
yes, well done, now you're finally seeing how i consider you 'responsible' for your polity when it comes to collective decisions. that's because your government is an elected one and is open to vote or petition.

your attitude is frankly bizarre. 'i need someone to take my decisions for me'. any number of harmful or abhorrent practices have been banned by legislation. 'individual choice' is a pretty strange mantra when we are talking about literally the entire global economic system.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,756|5223|eXtreme to the maX
The global economic system is driven by consumers.

Bizarre that you won't take responsibility for the consequences of your personal choices.

Just continue sitting in your steel and concrete apartment, enjoying coal fired power, eating industrially produced food thanks to diesel tractors, planning your next cartel-supplied drug bender and sneering that everything that happens in the world is someone else's fault.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2570
i've never avoided responsibility and culpability for my climate emissions? you seem confused. i have been trying to point out that it's precisely not the fault of 'indians and chinese and overbreeding races'. it's US. and i would only vote for a political party that had a meaningful green agenda.

the global economic system is based on control of and access to fossil fuels, as they have historically been the key to energy and industry and thus to development. the notion that we can fix the energy crisis using 'buyer power' and 'consumer boycotts' is hilarious. you completely underestimate the gigantic stake that oil companies and governments have in protecting their fossil-fuel stakes and incomes. you need to involve power and geopolitics in your simple consumer-supplier model.

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