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Beatdown Patrol
Member
+1|5856

atlvolunteer wrote:

According to the Free Dictionary, terrorism is defined as:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorism
I looked it up on Websters also, but it gave a vague definition:
the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
Neither, however, specify that a civilian target is necessary for the act to be considered terrorism.
Strange.  I checked the exact link that you posted and it says the following:

Noun    1.  Terrorism - the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear.

I would also look at the Wikipedia definition as well.  It lists several key criteria towards the bottom that you will probably find very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

- Beatdown

Last edited by Beatdown Patrol (2006-01-26 22:23:05)

Beatdown Patrol
Member
+1|5856

Horseman 77 wrote:

Smart people here no ? Beatdown is a lawyer or something in law enforcement? Wealth of knowledge.
::chuckle::  Neither, although I am constantly told that I should be a lawyer due to my methods of forming an argument and persuasive writing.  Living 15 miles from Washington DC probably helps too because this region is soaked in politics.

- Beatdown
Beatdown Patrol
Member
+1|5856

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Thanks again for the stirring debate. Just wanted to reply to this one statement.

I do not justify the actions of this administration in the middle east. Not in the least bit. There are some things I agree with, some I don't, but overall I do not approve of the invasion/liberation.

But two things cannot be denied.

1. The people of Iraq are now experiencing more freedom then they have since the country was established.

2. Leaving now would only make things worse for the Iraqis.
Yes...both are very true, especially number 2.  While I hate the fact that the US is in this situation, to leave now would be an even worse decision than going over there in the first place.  Our reputation is on the line, especially given the fact that following Desert Storm, the US completely abandoned the Kurds after Papa Bush told them to rise up against their oppressors.  ::shaking head::  We left those people with their asses hanging out in the wind...and they paid for it with their lives.

- Beatdown

Last edited by Beatdown Patrol (2006-01-26 22:39:48)

Ogopogo15
Mobile AA Whore
+1|5856|San Diego
I know it got way off topic by page 7,  but I just wanted to put some input.

I remember it was a big thing on TV as a kid I saw a lot of TV images of  WACO.  I believe didnt an ATF agent die,  and finally they decided to demolish the whole compound using like an APC?  Didnt the compound somehow catch on fire burning everyone inside when a teargas gernade was fired?  I remember I think Janet reno the attorney gen ordered it to be demolished.  I also think,  that David Koresh proclaimed himself as Jesus Christ.

I felt that Justice was served,  and I consider myself to be a moderate.  I believe the reason the Government let it be shown on TV was it was a quiet reminder to any nutjobs that this is what we are going to do to you.  Although that they burned to deaths wasnt quite what I expected. 

I felt the operation was a little bit heavyhanded,  by what I saw. 

I felt that the operation could have had better planning,  obviously I dont know any tactics,  but I felt that the operation was botched,  and rushed probably.  One of the main reasons was an ATF agent died,  and on national TV.

It was odd,  that they let the place burn,  and used a lot of people,  although we know David Koresh had lots of illegal weapons,  and it caught on fire.

20
California
News Images & I think a 60 minute documentry like a 10 year anniversiy special.
Student
No
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|5889|Atlanta, GA USA

Beatdown Patrol wrote:

atlvolunteer wrote:

According to the Free Dictionary, terrorism is defined as:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorism
I looked it up on Websters also, but it gave a vague definition:
the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
Neither, however, specify that a civilian target is necessary for the act to be considered terrorism.
Strange.  I checked the exact link that you posted and it says the following:

Noun    1.  Terrorism - the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear.

I would also look at the Wikipedia definition as well.  It lists several key criteria towards the bottom that you will probably find very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

- Beatdown
Hmmm.  We're both right!  The link actually lists a definition from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, which is the one I posted.  I didn't notice that below that, under Thesaurus, it lists another definition, the one you posted.
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|5853

Ogopogo15 wrote:

I felt that Justice was served,  and I consider myself to be a moderate.  I believe the reason the Government let it be shown on TV was it was a quiet reminder to any nutjobs that this is what we are going to do to you.  Although that they burned to deaths wasnt quite what I expected.
How was justice served? Has it been proven that Koresh abused a single child? Has it been proven that he commited a single, solitary crime besides owning those weapons? For the record, none of the weapons he owned are considered "illegal". Not a single damn one; I can go out today and place an order for anything and everything he had in there but I'd have to pay thousands upon thousands in taxes. That's all Koresh was guilty of, not paying the ridiculous tax on those weapons.

Shall I remind you people again that until 2002 the ATF was a TAX COLLECTION AGENCY. Not law enforcement officers, tax collectors. Tax collectors with assault weapons.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+507|2837
In right wing online circles the Branch Davidians have been rehabilitated. How does that make you feel? How do you feel about Waco?


https://old.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/c … _children/
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,936|5889|USA

Comments in the abc article summarize some of the feelings neatly:

FedUp • 4 years ago • edited
I still think that a better solution could have been found. But in the time of Janet Reno and the Clinton Administration we saw some terrible things happen to American citizens. Waco, Ruby Ridge, and Elian Gonzalez come to mind. Force was the name of the game with at the time.
Mason Kelsey  FedUp • 4 years ago
[…] no matter what was done it would have been viewed as wrong by someone.
e: One of the hard-sticking conspiracy theories at the time was that the breaches had been strategically placed in the building to improve the effect of incendiary weapons. Because of that, it was intended to get as many children out as possible (to save face), and then to torch the place to cover up government mishandling of the siege.

There was a lot of bad blood between conservative gun nuts and the government at the time.

It's a little weird to see the right wing swing fully into support of police, no matter what, and both groups running around with Punisher skulls like a bunch of edgy junior high schoolers.

Some of the same people who were so anti-government at the time, but thinking that we should execute more prisoners, at the discretion of the government! How do you even begin to process that.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2021-10-25 16:41:16)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+507|2837

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Some of the same people who were so anti-government at the time, but thinking that we should execute more prisoners, at the discretion of the government! How do you even begin to process that.
Pig people.

Do you remember the guys that took over the bird sanctuary because the government was prosecuting people for poaching? I actually have some respect for the leader of that group since he stuck by his beliefs and defended Black Lives Matter and defund the police.

"Ammon Bundy Comes Out in Support of BLM, Calls to Defund the Police"
Ammon Bundy, an anti-government activist who lead the 41-day armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge back in 2016, expressed support for the Black Lives Matter movement and for defunding the police in a recent Facebook video.

He said in the video that he had considered attending, near his home in Boise, Idaho, “a rally with the Black Lives Matter in support of defunding the police because yes the police need to be defunded.” He decided not to attend the rally, citing concerns about potential violence from fellow “Patriots” who have criticized his stance on the issue.

Anyone who doesn’t understand his support for the movement “must have a problem,” he said.

“You must have a problem in your mind if you think that somehow the Black Lives Matter is more dangerous than the police,” he said. “You must have a problem in your mind if you think that Antifa is the one going to take your freedom.”
...
He criticized his followers for supporting law enforcement and the military “even when they’re doing terrible things across the world.”

“I’m not saying that everything they’re doing and every person in it — don’t get me wrong – are doing that, but there needs to be a defunding of government in general, and especially the police forces because they’re the ones who are actually going to seek and destroy us.”
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ammon-b … 17142.html

The logical consistency of a radical antigovernmental extremist...amazing.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,936|5889|USA

Probably a stab in the back to some of his supporters.

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