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War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+562|5792|Purplicious Wisconsin

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Geography is not your strong suit I guess
Afghanistan is close enough to the Middle East, fuck off.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+501|2798

War Man wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

In all seriousness, would you like to go to Afghanistan for round 2 with the Taliban/ISIS if someone put a button in front of you to make it happen?
To be honest anywhere in the Middle East sounds horrible. I may be pissed that the fighting there was all for nothing, but at the same time relieved at the possibility of the next war NOT being there.
I feel you. Where do you expect our next major war to be?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+501|2798
Saw this comment on Breitbart as an eulogy for the fallen Marines.
If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven's scenes. They will find the streets are guarded
By United States Marines
Why are we occupying heaven?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,926|5850|USA

With Vietnam also in mind, I think Americans would be generally pretty sick of war in another part of the world if we spent decades there too.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+501|2798
If we didn't learn after Vietnam, we never will.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,926|5850|USA

War Man wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Geography is not your strong suit I guess
Afghanistan is close enough to the Middle East, fuck off.
Not long ago, Dilbert labeled South Korea as "somewhere in Southeast Asia." Afghanistan is not a part of the Middle East. "Close enough" doesn't cut it. Mexico isn't a part of Central America, either.

This isn't all to be pedantic or anything. Very roughly generalizing geography like that isn't uncommon of bigots.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+501|2798
The religion, type of warfare, and phenotype of the people we fought in Afghanistan isn't too far off from the Middle East. It's not like he said Afghanistan is in Australia.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,926|5850|USA

I wonder what the next flavor-of-the-day region for our next forever-war will be, that Americans will be "relieved" to wash their hands of after?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+501|2798

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I wonder what the next flavor-of-the-day region for our next forever-war will be, that Americans will be "relieved" to wash their hands of after?
I am betting on Latin America. The cartels are militarized enough to make it interesting and we have an excuse of it being in our backyard.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,926|5850|USA

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The religion, type of warfare, and phenotype of the people we fought in Afghanistan isn't too far off from the Middle East. It's not like he said Afghanistan is in Australia.
I think one of the mistakes we make while doing our nation-building hobby is to disregard or generalize the culture(s) of the places we are occupying. Failing to understand attitudes, moods. "Afghanistan is close enough."

Very embarrassing misread of Afghanistan's ability and willingness to hold out against the Taliban from the people at the top. Meanwhile trainers, boots on the ground for years are interviewed saying that in no way was the Afghan army ready for any of that. One guy said his report was scrubbed because it made us look bad? We should investigate the last 20 years at least before committing to another land war.
uziq
Member
+419|2531
https://www.nplusonemag.com/online-only … rofitable/

re: embarrassing misread of afghanistan. i mean, the USA concocted the entire disaster in their 20th century policy. from the moment that kissinger cleared the hanging of pakistan's bhutto, ushering in an era of military dictatorship and islamo-fascism in pakistan and turning away from the relatively moderate and secular vision of the nation that came after partition, that entire dyad of pakistan–afghanistan has been uncontainable. the pakistani military intelligence services are literally a hangover from the 1970s and american cold war policy. the duplicity and mutual distrust has been there for decades.

fun fact: did you know the first ever jihadi manuals and terrorist training documents were funded and printed, courtesy of the university of nebraska?

https://www.globalissues.org/article/43 … s-of-jihad

Last edited by uziq (2021-08-27 22:30:33)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+501|2798
Do you think the University of Nebraska press still has those manuals available for purchase?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+419|2531
it's pretty funny that america got owned in a week because of textbook cold war blowback.

both the current state of pakistan and afghanistan are largely related to US cold war-era policies, covert CIA activities, and official statecraft.

the taliban beat you in a 20 year war using guerilla tactics that you taught them, using american taxpayer money and largesse, decades ago.

'americans have time but we have the watch'.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,926|5850|USA

Lots of self-owns to unpack without even having to go back that far.

Expanding war goals beyond punishment for terror attacks abroad was a self-own. Setting up Afghanistan's army as a jobs program of sorts and incidents of scrubbing trainer reports of underperformance because it MaKeS uS LoOk BaD, sad. Misreading and concluding Afghanistan's army in its state could defend Afghanistan, sad. Releasing Afghanistan to the care of a military force that could get steamrolled by the Taliban, sad. Abandoning yet another country to an opposing force at the conclusion of a forever war, sad.

I don't know if "getting owned" though is fully the right term. It's like your group is dropping out of a server and your remaining allies are either drunk or don't know how to play. Easy pickings for the hardened campers on the other side. Not of course to make excuses for American (or British) mistakes.

crying bald eagle.gif
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+562|5792|Purplicious Wisconsin

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

War Man wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Geography is not your strong suit I guess
Afghanistan is close enough to the Middle East, fuck off.
Not long ago, Dilbert labeled South Korea as "somewhere in Southeast Asia." Afghanistan is not a part of the Middle East. "Close enough" doesn't cut it. Mexico isn't a part of Central America, either.

This isn't all to be pedantic or anything. Very roughly generalizing geography like that isn't uncommon of bigots.
Oh I'm a bigot now? Afghanistan is literally right next to Iran, is that the end of the eastern most side of Middle East for you or do I need to go more west? I am not dilbert if you hadn't noticed and I remember laughing when he said southeast Asia as he wasn't even fucking close, Afghanistan at least is close.

Next you'll be telling me Ireland and Britain aren't Europe because they aren't on the mainland continent.

Last edited by War Man (2021-08-28 10:34:43)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,718|5815|Oxferd Ohire
one isnt europe cause they voted to leave
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+562|5792|Purplicious Wisconsin

RTHKI wrote:

one isnt europe cause they voted to leave
If you are following that kind of logic. If say, Wales and/or Scotland were to secede from UK and join EU, would Britain be considered European?
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+765|5763|United States of America
I'll be honest, TIL Afghanistan isn't considered ME cause the 2000s always seemed like "war in the middle east" encompassed both Iraq and Afghanistan
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,926|5850|USA

War Man wrote:

Oh I'm a bigot now?
I didn't say that, and I don't think you are. But a lot of that inaccurate "over there" or "close enough" generalization stuff (be better) is a feature of those attitudes.

Afghanistan is literally right next to Iran, is that the end of the eastern most side of Middle East for you or do I need to go more west? I am not dilbert if you hadn't noticed and I remember laughing when he said southeast Asia as he wasn't even fucking close, Afghanistan at least is close.

Next you'll be telling me Ireland and Britain aren't Europe because they aren't on the mainland continent.
Mexico is right next to Guatemala, but is not a part of Central America. Afghanistan does border the Middle East (Iran, which also borders Turkmenistan, Pakistan). UK and Ireland are indeed considered a part of Europe (Western Europe), regardless of EU stuff. Pakistan, India a part of South Asia. Afghanistan is a part of the Far East. Indonesia is 80-something percent Muslim, but not considered a part of the Middle East.

See also merging of Near East, Middle East regions.

- https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/wha … -east.html
- https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/whi … tries.html

If you want to lump more countries together, I guess you could use the Bush Era "Greater Middle East" (also @desertfox, war in the middle east, regional theater(?)) which also incorporates wider North Africa and all the way up to Kazakhstan, lmao.

This really was intended as an aside, and I don't see myself covering it again in this context.
uziq
Member
+419|2531
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+501|2798
Last military airplane left Afghanistan. The war is officially over. It's actually hard to believe it happened.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+501|2798
Wikipedia on Tuesday updated its page ‘War in Afghanistan’ and listed the result of the 20-year conflict as a “Taliban victory”.

A blog post titled “The Taliban’s victory proves the West has failed to learn the lessons of the past” which was written by Effie G. H. Pedaliu at the London School of Economics, has been cited as a primary source in the edit.

Articles from the New York Times, Fox News, Politico, BBC News, The Washington Post, Radio France Internationale and Deutsche Welle referencing the Taliban victory have also been included in the web resource’s footnotes, News Week reported.

It’s a description that is unlikely to sit well with many Americans, particularly given Wikipedia’s status as the world’s largest and most popular reference website.
https://g7t9m5v9.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/ttttttttt.jpg
That's wrong. We didn't actually lose. A loss with a 16 KDR is not a loss.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,926|5850|USA

That one meme with the guy sweating it out over two buttons on a console.

"We didn't lose."
"Biden ran with his tail between his legs."

*wipes brow*
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+645|5369|Washington St.
If the Taliban didn't win who did?

And if you ask a republican that question and at any time they mention the name "Biden" the automatic answer is, the Taliban won.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,926|5850|USA

Not to discount the achievements of asymmetric warfare, etc., but you could probably compare the Taliban victory to water rushing in to fill the void left by a disinterested and/or incompetent defense force. Or a family of possums moving into your old shed and hissing at the family dog from the rafters.

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