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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

You're being really obtuse.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5027|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

For the umpteenth time, you are evading a moral responsibility if you don't whistleblow, especially on issues that could hurt or kill people. You like to pretend that engineers are god's gift to Earth but you can really you lot can be about as selfish as it gets.
Literally every product on the market carries some risk of injury or death, you're probably holding a microwave emitter which is frying your head or could burn your house down if the battery goes pop right now. Apparently you're fine with the balance of risk and reward.

Should I quit my job and go on a crusade to tell people using a mobile has some marginal degree of risk? They've known it for decades and don't care.

Same situation for literally every other product in the world.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

Bad analogy, radiofrequency radiation has been often discussed in terms of health risk for years. A better analogy would be trojan products like cars especially prone to bursting in flame more than others (especially in cases with documented internal contention over known issues). Of course I'm not absolving marketing and corporate brass of their own responsibility, but the engineers can't pretend that none of it is on them and still present their profession as some incorruptible apex of human achievement, holy moly.

"If only all world leaders were engineers, all human problems would be resolved" get real.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5027|eXtreme to the maX
So you're fine with the risk that any of your electronic devices could burst into flames at any moment?
Presumably you store them in an asbestos box with a halon system when they're not in use?
But what if the halon system malfunctions and asphyxiates your whole household while you're asleep?
Shouldn't you store it in the garage?
But that makes it easier for terrorists to steal and use in a mass casualty event like gassing a cinema, what then?
Shouldn't cinemas be mandated to have halon detectors?
But should govt be mandating cinemas introduce halon detectors which cost money, reduce profits and can themselves catch fire?
Maybe it would be easier to ban electronic devices - think of the children.

Engineers do make mistakes, can be reckless and careless, bullied into taking the wrong decision and are caught out by unexpected unknowns, but most problems are down to the balance between acceptable risk and unacceptable risk and who decides where the line is drawn against the profit motive and what the public thinks about it after the event.

And I assume Californians no longer buy anything since pretty well everything causes cancer now.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-01-17 18:56:00)

#FreeBritney
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

The California warnings present their own problem. Trace amounts of a material known to the State of California to cause cancer is pretty much a meme. The legions of indistinguishable warnings probably diminishes the effect of the warnings on items that should definitely have them. This too has been much discussed.

There is a difference between everyday material hazards in everyday items that otherwise pass muster, and blatant negligence that goes into the design of some products, though. You can't pretend otherwise. A choking hazard the button eye of a teddy bear presents is in no way comparable to stuffing it with nails and broken glass. I guess the engineers who helped set up T-shirt factories that dump waste downstream into poor communities are not culpable either?

"BuT mY JoB!"
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5027|eXtreme to the maX
I don't think its anyone's job to stuff teddy bears with broken anything.

Probably they are culpable, depends on the situation.
Every process produces waste with varying degrees of toxicity - can you say for sure your sewage is completely harmless once it reaches the sea? Have you done due diligence? Audited your sewage service? Do you care?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-01-17 20:52:06)

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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

Sewage treatment involves biosolids refining, heavy treatment, landfill disposal of other solids, and release of processed liquids. Ongoing problems with sewage processing around the state include occasional overflows due to rainfalls of of sewage and stormwater into bodies of water (recently https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 … 154149001/ ; not my county). I do my part by not wasting water where I can and flushing only what should be flushed.

So, have you? What kind of renewable energy do you have installed? Do you collect water? Are you legally allowed to? If not, have you petitioned the city? Applied for a permit? Did You Do Your Due Dilligence?

Anyway, a green dick measuring contest is completely beside the point. I would also hazard (heh) that sewage services are probably more critical to the functioning of modern society than $5 t-shirt imports from Indonesia.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5027|eXtreme to the maX
Well think of the work an engineer has to go through to develop a sewage system, at the minimum possible cost, minimum possible risk, just meeting the design life in the minimum possible time when the understanding and design tools are still evolving.

From my inbox today.

The Institution of Mechanical Engineers' Process Industries Division warmly welcomes you to their webinar on Advanced Analysis in the Durability Assessment of Piping Systems Susceptible to Flow Induced Vibration.
       
Flow-induced vibration (FIV) in piping system presents a major durability and ultimately containment challenge in production and process facilities. This webinar will begin with a concise introduction to FIV and examine three commonly encountered FIV mechanisms; turbulence-induced vibration, multiphase flow induced vibration and acoustic induced vibration.

Screening tools for identifying FIV related risks, such as the Energy Institute AVIFF guidelines, will be discussed as a good initial assessment approach. The limits of these guidelines for some mechanisms will be explored. Where a high risk is identified by these screening methods, simulation-driven approaches can be used to predict the associated excitation forcing and resulting vibration response of the system. Using some relevant case studies and benchmarks, we will demonstrate how CFD, Acoustic FEA and Structural FEA simulations can deliver valuable insights that inform the re-design or modification of these piping systems to enhance their durability.

The talk will aim to give engineers involved in the design and operation of process piping systems a good overview of the range of engineering approaches to FIV risk management and the value that numerical simulation can add to this process.
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uziq
Member
+394|2373
do you have any idea how many of those emails learned societies/publishers/conference organizers send out? i do.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

The past page has been dilbert saying engineering is difficult and involved (which doesn't excuse their silence when there's an egregious problem that people should be made aware of), and that nobody's perfect (which affirms to me that maybe the profession's dangerous pride should be taken down a notch or two).

Doesn't it sound like such a great idea swapping out the "conceited elitists" in leadership positions with other conceited elitists who don't really understand how to work with people and are proud of it. The minute something goes wrong: "but my job!" aaaand swept under the rug.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5027|eXtreme to the maX
There's no 'dangerous pride' in engineering, thats mostly found in people who have no clue about what they're talking about but think they do.

This is what dangerous pride looks like.

Would you trust this man to fit a cooler to your CPU

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i1ojVuGqOrqc/v1/1000x-1.jpg
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+394|2373
i can't believe you've gotten 3 pages of mileage out of a 3-minute amuse bouche of a youtube video. it's impressive. the engineering ego will brook no argument!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

uziq wrote:

i can't believe you've gotten 3 pages of mileage out of a 3-minute amuse bouche of a youtube video. it's impressive. the engineering ego will brook no argument!
Seen a few taken down a peg or two by grizzled old contractors with stacks of data, measurements, and photo evidence. Heard the contrite voice messages, sometimes saved as trophies of a sort. "Yeah we've looked things over again and decided that your client isn't responsible for that $x amt disaster. Please give me a call" and stuff to that effect. Probably takes them a good few weeks to puff themselves up again to the point where they can float majestically above the blithering peons once again. It's the people in marketing, and purchasing, and art, and the suits who are the problems. Not us! Never us.

Really the last thing I want to see is some engineer waving the banner of their profession as better than everyone else in every way. Like seriously #@& off.

It was a funny video anyway. I kind of feel similarly exasperated with IT and I don't really want to get back into it as my primary job description.
uziq
Member
+394|2373
the video, to me, expresses the sort of lunacy you get in any large or complex enough organization. it's issues of project management. we have the same bullshit conflicts and absurdities even in publishing houses, you hardly need to be ultra-high-tech apple designing the next revolutionary gadget. conflicts of interest and giraffe designs by committee.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

Not being a people person does of course extend outside of engineering. Like seriously, who has representatives from another company over from clear across the state just to barb them with veiled insults all afternoon? Oh, deal fell through? Big surprise. "We're going out to lunch, feel free to wait in the lobby." What the f-.gif
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Would you trust this man to fit a cooler to your CPU

Sorry, but why would I hire a political strategist to install a CPU cooler.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5027|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i can't believe you've gotten 3 pages of mileage out of a 3-minute amuse bouche of a youtube video. it's impressive. the engineering ego will brook no argument!

Dilbert_X wrote:

Who knows what the truth is in that particular fuck up.
#FreeBritney
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5027|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Really the last thing I want to see is some engineer waving the banner of their profession as better than everyone else in every way. Like seriously #@& off.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Engineers do make mistakes, can be reckless and careless, bullied into taking the wrong decision and are caught out by unexpected unknowns, but most problems are down to the balance between acceptable risk and unacceptable risk and who decides where the line is drawn against the profit motive and what the public thinks about it after the event.
Not sure why you're still droning on at this point.
#FreeBritney
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5027|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Would you trust this man to fit a cooler to your CPU

Sorry, but why would I hire a political strategist to install a CPU cooler.
Why would you hire a history nerd to be a political/economic/military/medical strategist?

I'm sure if you asked him he'd say fitting a cooler to a CPU must be easy because nerds can do it and he can do it in a jiffy with his eyes shut without even reading up on it or consulting an expert.
Just boot in safe mode so you don't get electrocuted, whip open the case and off you go.
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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+452|2641
Historians are the best equipped people to be political, economic, and military strategist.

Also

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9586586112/hB57EAF5E/animal-plato-after-deciding-only-philosophers-could-be-kings-everyone-is-stupid-except
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Would you trust this man to fit a cooler to your CPU

Sorry, but why would I hire a political strategist to install a CPU cooler.
Why would you hire a history nerd to be a political/economic/military/medical strategist?

I'm sure if you asked him he'd say fitting a cooler to a CPU must be easy because nerds can do it and he can do it in a jiffy with his eyes shut without even reading up on it or consulting an expert.
Just boot in safe mode so you don't get electrocuted, whip open the case and off you go.
What in the gargle-argle are you talking about. How does history have zero connection to politics, economics, military strategy and epidemiology? Things that have happened are extraordinarily relevant to these things.

Also what the heck are you on about with safe mode and electrocution and cpu coolers. He probably could install one. It's not that hard. If you discount paste application, it's practically like sticking lego bricks together these days.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+452|2641
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41iU3A4e2aL._AC_SS350_.jpg
I still own an Ipod from 2006. The battery died but I got it replaced with a new one. I wish it had bluetooth. If it did I would probably use it.

Apple no longer makes classic ipods. They never made one with bluetooth. They still sell iTouches though.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mOcatpXAL._AC_SX425_.jpg
Starting at $199 you can get an iTouch that includes with the base model bluetooth, a camera, wifi, and apps. What is the difference between an iPhone and an iTouch? Probably technical specifications but otherwise it is an entry level phone that can't take a sim card. Apple makes no dedicated music listening devices.

They need to bring back the Zune
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/714HdFEp+oS._AC_SY741_.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

Was checking around to see if I could simply patch my system, known cpu bottleneck and all, with a RAM upgrade to get rid of memory limitations I've been running up against. Turns out the kit I was eyeballing (link) is as much or more than equivalent kits of DDR4. Motherboard is limited to 4 sticks, 8GB per stick and these were listed on configurator compatibility.

Pay more for lesser ram to pay less overall than for a more comprehensive upgrade, or pay less for better ram then pay more for a comprehensive upgrade. Irksome FWP.



Sigh, I could do a lot with 32GB right now and the out-of-ram crashes it could avoid over my current 16GB. But if I had to RMA those sticks it would entirely not be worth my time for that price.

Meanwhile, AMD availability like "you have received a notification,":

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+452|2641
What are you doing that you need 32 GB?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,890|5693|USA

Work tabs, music tabs, large-size game mods with uncompressed assets, adobe cs, video editing, etc. Frequently pushed into the range where the rig starts to chug a bit and programs become unstable. The folksy wisdom of 16GB being The Sweet Spot for "power users" is becoming a little obsolete, though persists on some forums. The real answer is it depends. As I'm working right now, a little over half my available is consumed, and I've barely gotten started. With a lot of stuff running at once, the "recommended specs" become a bit misleading.

Additionally, RAM is at a price point right now where you might as well. Just not DDR3 apparently. You can get a good 2x16GB DDR4 kit for well under $200, whereas some 2x8GB kits aren't much cheaper.

32 is going to be my bare minimum for a system replacement, in 1 or 2 dimms to leave room for future upgrades. As per ush, I would like to keep my next system running for at least ten years.

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