BF2S Forums Race relations thread

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

19% to 34% is a big swing in terms of population. But has the size London's total white population been growing or shrinking? I mean are there in fact more total white people in existence or has the total number been decreasing? There being more minorities in existence doesn't mean the white population died off to make space for them.

The percentage compared to total population changed. The gross number doesn't really matter.

The gross number of people matters. More people of one group being born doesn't mean another group is being genocided.

there's also demographic changes at work in the geography of the city. whereas london's east-end was full of white working-class cockneys, doing the really shit jobs for the City, porters and dock workers and taxi-men and so forth, now those jobs are taken up by immigrant labour on even cheaper wages. the london white working-class moved out to the leafier suburbs and greener pastures of essex and haringey, to the north-east. have they been 'destroyed' by immigrants? no. they enjoy a better life and no longer live in slums in the inner city.

Last edited by uziq (2020-06-12 05:41:54)

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

The percentage compared to total population changed. The gross number doesn't really matter.

The gross number of people matters. More people of one group being born doesn't mean another group is being genocided.

If, in 1990 there were 100 people in London, 80 of them were white and 20 were not. If, in 2020 there were 150 people in London, 99 would be white and 51 would not be. Gross numbers always fluctuate. Percentage is what gives you the real feeling.

Feelings aren't reality. It may feel different but that wouldn't change the fact that there are more white people in total.

we are basically arguing over why an old man might be more racist and reactionary, when that's pretty much just what old people do.

i don't agree with the premise that london has changed all that drastically in 50 years, let alone 20. monty python is a creation of a post-imperial, multi-ethnic society. they repeatedly made fun of the empire and based many of their skits on it. there's an entire episode of michael palin's 'ripping yarns' in which he is in a pith helmet and jodhpurs, for god's sake; and another when they are colonial officers at a manor house in the raj. british-pakistanis and british-indians were a thing in the 1970s.

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I bet Dilbert doesn't help the black cats.

I used to have a black cat, greatest cat of all time.

I almost got a black cat from a shelter that was so black you could only really see its eyes. It's name was Midnight which I just adored. I'm allergic to cats though. I do feed a stray cat that lives around the neighborhood that we named Porch Cat because it like to sit on the chairs on our porch.

uziq wrote:

i don't agree with the premise that london has changed all that drastically in 50 years, let alone 20. monty python is a creation of a post-imperial, multi-ethnic society. they repeatedly made fun of the empire and based many of their skits on it. there's an entire episode of michael palin's 'ripping yarns' in which he is in a pith helmet and jodhpurs, for god's sake; and another when they are colonial officers at a manor house in the raj. british-pakistanis and british-indians were a thing in the 1970s.

London has changed dramatically in 50 years.

Yes I'm sure the Cambridge footlights were thoroughly multicultural.

charity isn’t about the amounts you give

I'm sure they enjoy they enjoy being patronised, I thought you were the one who said what they needed most was redistribution of wealth?
Jump to it.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-06-12 06:42:14)

I'm not in favour of wealth redistribution, didn't I make it clear to Jay?
You are though, so what are you actually doing? The occasional chat with a poor person isn't really it.

https://twitter.com/hiiipowers/status/1 … 6070822913

maybe it is worth a listen uzi

They're protesting outside the US consulate, perfectly appropriate.

https://twitter.com/hiiipowers/status/1 … 3068781568

oh look here they are in the US

victory, at last

Come now I believe it's fairly obvious that I wrote about the import of the US context to protest against perceived racial inequality within one's own nation. A protest in front of the US consulate by what definitely sounds like Americans rather than kiwis does not strike me as anything resembling that. It's like international gatherings of diaspora when something happens in the home country, like hong kong émigrés marching in Europe during the protests there. That does not raise issue with me. A train running through Belgium graffiti'd with 'I can't breathe' has a very different message and meaning to it.

Accept your defeat graciously uzi

larssen's posts.

So apparently someone has graffitid 'I can't breathe' on a train in Belgium. I've heard flyers with these words were spread in London as well. Why do people insist on exporting this shit?

so apparently a bunch of new zealanders assembled en masse and started singing the lyrics of an african-american rapper who talks about growing up in los angeles. why do people insist on exporting this shit?

Oh i'm perfectly fine with protest about UK police violence in a UK context. I'm not fine with US social issues being exported to Europe. Crystal clear point.

but you're happy for people to protest in their own countries if they listen to a socially conscious US rapper who raps about the african-american experience? you're happy for people from other countries to assemble, so long as they do it outside the US embassy or consulate and direct their anger only at america? perhaps not such a crystal clear point.

you still haven't addressed really how all these struggles might be connected, and how a person in the UK or the netherlands might be given to (legitimate) anger and grievance by the killing of a black man in america. how the experiences are cognate, related. how western european countries have their own serious issues with systemic racism. no, you're annoyed that people say 'i can't breathe' in brussels. but apparently overjoyed when you hear kendrick lamar? make sense.

I also think it's a bit of a misreading - this is not a revolution. A venting of anger, yes, but no great insurrection. Much more has to happen for people to really rise up in a country.

lol whew. that one aged badly didn't it, what with the military being deployed to D.C. and now 15 straight nights of protest. just a temporary venting of anger guys! meanwhile MN is still turning out in large numbers to peacefully protest, statues have been toppled, new laws and legislations passed, police departments disbanded, senior police leaders resigning, the democrats 'took a knee', etc, etc.

seems to have been about as effective a period of civil disobedience and protest as anything seen since the mass mobilisations of the 1960s.

maybe check your posts and figure out what you think before you get breathless over kendrick lamar?

Last edited by uziq (2020-06-12 13:14:25)

When you say revolution I think 1789, 1848, 1917 etc. I think your judgment is clouded if this is to be termed a revolution.

There is no contradiction in my posts at all though I appreciate you digging back to find them.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-06-12 13:14:22)

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Larssen wrote:

victory, at last

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSdGrwVdWNo

Infinity War was so bad. The comic version was darker, made more sense, and didn't result in a bunch of people saying "Thanos Was Right"

infinity war was one of the best marvel movies, certainly better than the sequel