BF2S Forums Race relations thread

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

When has the reactionary crackdown ever been lighter than the original violence?

beautiful logic!

why is the libertarian justifying state repression and crackdowns? why are you condoning the use of force by a government upon its citizens at all?

you need to examine your political ideology. it's due for an update. maybe reach for another impressive-sounding label. fascist is one.

Why is highlighting a universal truth condoning it? I am saying the reaction was inevitable, and was expected and embraced. They knew what they were doing when they tossed molotov cocktails at police officers. There's no innocence or ignorance to fall back on.

No one has tossed Molotov cocktails at police. Firecrackers sure.

They call it being street smart Mac

uziq wrote:

the vast majority of protests are peaceful, precisely civil disobedience. trump's ploy to make out that 'antifa' are organizing nationwide to loot and pillage handily skirts over, and thus dismisses, the legitimate concerns and peaceful protests of most people. the entire racial aspect has hardly been acknowledged by trump or the white house: it's all lefty this, fake news that, antifa terrorism, blah blah blah.

there are countless videos in this thread alone where police are dispersing peaceful protestors by force. trump just cleared out a peaceful protest, sanctioned and allowed, within the limits of a curfew, using teargas and stun grenades, so that he could take a stroll for a photo-opportunity. how is that democracy? where was the riot? where was the looting? your democratic rights, your fundamental american right to civil disobedience, are being trampled by gung-ho policing and now the military. not good.

yes, all those people self-defending themselves with guns (or a bow-and-arrow, or a machete) turned out so well. bludgeoned half into comas and kicked into a pile of bloodied bones. what we need are all those fatsos with AR-15s who liked the photo-op at the capitol building to come out and spray down some crowds! the pro-gun arguments work so well! or maybe some more pissed off people in st. louis should shoot at the police! yes, yes! more guns, not less!

what sort of libertarian, are you, anyway? one in support of police shooting people stood peacefully on their own property? one where protestors are dismissed and people being knocked over by cops shrugged at? funny sort of liberty you espouse. you sound more like an authoritarian who is out to filch and line his own pockets from those with whom you curry favour.

bruh they got fucked up because they had a bow-and-arrow or sword or whatever and not an ar15 lmao. i just saw a video of some some dude trying to break into an asian dudes store the other night and the asian dude came out pointing an ar-15 at the dude one handed whilst filming with the other hand. he didn't shoot him but the otherwise "tough" looter was basically crying like a bitch on the ground and begging him to not shoot. if he didn't have a gun i'm sure that dude and others would have loved to gang up on him and kick him in the head while he's on the ground.

i'm not condoning violence but if these ppl realize there's consequences (possibly deadly) to their violent looting i can guarantee you'll see a lot less of this shit. don't violently fuck around with ppls livelihoods and small businesses etc. i personally know of a shop owner in santa monica that was quietly sitting inside his business with armed family members when it was popping off out there. thankfully he was safe/nothing happened but at least he was prepared.

and a lot of this shit is organized to a certain degree btw. they've found literal random crates of bricks set up/dropped off in multiple cities.

these ppl are confused like a lot of u hate cops and think we live in a police state or something yet you think the ppl shouldn't be armed and only cops to have guns wtf

Last edited by lil_droo (2020-06-02 09:43:28)

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

We aren't France. We don't look at rioting as a rite of passage.

your country was founded in rioting and commemorates said rebellion.

what the FUCK are you talking about? 'civil disobedience' is one of the very central tenets of the american 'philosophy'. it's right there in thoreau.

my god you are one illiterate bootlicking piglet..

Who's the thick one here? Who's been the one ranting that no one needs guns and that right wing people with guns are a danger and that the only people that should have weapons are cops? You, you dumb fuck.

This isn't civil disobedience, this is rioting and looting. No one has any problem with the peaceful protesters making their point. March, chant, fine. When you start being aggressive towards others you lose all moral standing. When you start attacking and injuring people on the street, you lose moral standing. When you steal, and burn, you lose moral standing. This has been going on for seven days, and it's gone well beyond any meaningful protest related to the death of George Floyd. It is being used as a platform so morons like ken (notice he's been gone for several days?) can go LARP their feelings out about how much cops suck and deserve to die and how the capitalist system needs to burn. This is every leftist living out their wildest violent fantasies right now. If they could manage to assassinate Trump, this would be the perfect protest in their eyes.

This was one of those rare times when there was universal condemnation aimed at one target, the cop with his knee on the neck of George Floyd, and now it's just a shitshow. Now the law and order types want more law and order, and the anarchist types want more anarchy and hatred directed at cops because the cops... did their job stopping them. We're now more divided than we were before. Now we hate each other more.

Maybe one day, when you've built something worth defending, you'll understand why calling me a bootlicker doesn't injure me in the slightest. Maybe you'll understand that to build within a society, rules need to be established, that they serve a purpose, and that when people can indiscriminately commit violent acts, society disintegrates and nothing is worth building towards. Nihilism is not my religion.

Jay, you say you are for the NAP. You understand that reactive response is disproportional. You recognize that "we live in a society", that there is a social contract where certain liberties are relinquished for better collective security. But then you start your critique at the point of protest, instead of the catalyst.

What about the black bodies sent to the morgue by police officers? That is an aggression. Of course the response to THAT violence is disproportionate - the social contract, remember? People give up pieces of their own freedom for the collective security of others. The social contract is failing black people. You want black people to peacefully protest against a system that treats them as less than human. When they peacefully protest things like the national anthem at football games, people like you tell them that a football game is not the right avenue. When they peacefully protest in the streets, you tell them that protests are useless. When they fight back against an authoritarian power, you chide them for violence. Where is your criticism of the police?

You spend countless words, posts, breaths talking about the violent protests. You spend one sentence talking about the death of a black man at the hands of police. Look at your own comments - "police killing black people is bad, but don't destroy property". It's not "the destruction of property is bad, but the police need to stop killing black people". DESTRUCTION OF LIFE IS WORSE THAN DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY! You talk about building something worth defending, and maybe then people will understand. How are black people supposed to build something worth defending when our society does not even treat black people as equal human beings? How are black people supposed to build something worth defending when prosecutors arrest and charge black people at a higher rate for the same crimes as white people? How are black people supposed to build something worth defending when their votes are suppressed? When institutional racism in the form of redlining, voting laws, lending, justice, etc retard black peoples' ability to build something worth defending?

You sit on a mountain of white privilege. You and I, and all white Americans, have profited and succeeded off a racist system. The very least you can do is recognize the position we are in, and use that position to push for positive change. Instead, you are choosing to back that racist system, and use your white privilege to scold those black people. "Why can't you just peacefully protest"?

It's nice to know you're thinking about me when I'm not here.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

beautiful logic!

why is the libertarian justifying state repression and crackdowns? why are you condoning the use of force by a government upon its citizens at all?

you need to examine your political ideology. it's due for an update. maybe reach for another impressive-sounding label. fascist is one.

Why is highlighting a universal truth condoning it? I am saying the reaction was inevitable, and was expected and embraced. They knew what they were doing when they tossed molotov cocktails at police officers. There's no innocence or ignorance to fall back on.

No one has tossed Molotov cocktails at police. Firecrackers sure.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny … story.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7ny.com … d/6225018/

Jay wrote:

Larssen wrote:

Jay wrote:

And let the criminals dictate acceptable behavior? You don't know many cops, do you?

Had their culture not condoned excessive violence and apparently racist behaviour, there would be no riots such as this.

I would argue the police force exists to maintain calm, order and rule of law in your society, not provoke violent reprisals from enraged mobs. 'Protect and serve' seems bogus at this point but nonetheless it's their jobs to ensure this exact scenario does not occur.

To more directly answer your question I have many, many friends in the police. Difference is, I live in a country where they understand their role. If you want to be the doorkicker, join an anti-terror unit or the military but stay away from the police.

Violence begets violence, and the main lesson our cops will draw is that they need to be even more heavily armed and react even stronger at the beginning of a protest before it gets out of hand. The police care, first and foremost, about protecting their own. They're taught to control every situation, and if that means using force, they will do so. It is our job as a society to hold them accountable and change their behavior, but that's less likely to occur when they are having people bash the windows of their car and setting it on fire with them still in it. You want life respected? Respect life then, universally. There was a strong criminal justice reform movement making progress in this country. That has now evaporated.

you are so full of shit, it's hilarious.

how did the black people murdered by police err by 'not respecting life' in the first place?

cops' lesson from this is to be 'more brutal' and less tolerant? really? errrrrrrrr

Last edited by uziq (2020-06-02 09:49:38)

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

your country was founded in rioting and commemorates said rebellion.

what the FUCK are you talking about? 'civil disobedience' is one of the very central tenets of the american 'philosophy'. it's right there in thoreau.

my god you are one illiterate bootlicking piglet..

Who's the thick one here? Who's been the one ranting that no one needs guns and that right wing people with guns are a danger and that the only people that should have weapons are cops? You, you dumb fuck.

This isn't civil disobedience, this is rioting and looting. No one has any problem with the peaceful protesters making their point. March, chant, fine. When you start being aggressive towards others you lose all moral standing. When you start attacking and injuring people on the street, you lose moral standing. When you steal, and burn, you lose moral standing. This has been going on for seven days, and it's gone well beyond any meaningful protest related to the death of George Floyd. It is being used as a platform so morons like ken (notice he's been gone for several days?) can go LARP their feelings out about how much cops suck and deserve to die and how the capitalist system needs to burn. This is every leftist living out their wildest violent fantasies right now. If they could manage to assassinate Trump, this would be the perfect protest in their eyes.

This was one of those rare times when there was universal condemnation aimed at one target, the cop with his knee on the neck of George Floyd, and now it's just a shitshow. Now the law and order types want more law and order, and the anarchist types want more anarchy and hatred directed at cops because the cops... did their job stopping them. We're now more divided than we were before. Now we hate each other more.

Maybe one day, when you've built something worth defending, you'll understand why calling me a bootlicker doesn't injure me in the slightest. Maybe you'll understand that to build within a society, rules need to be established, that they serve a purpose, and that when people can indiscriminately commit violent acts, society disintegrates and nothing is worth building towards. Nihilism is not my religion.

Jay, you say you are for the NAP. You understand that reactive response is disproportional. You recognize that "we live in a society", that there is a social contract where certain liberties are relinquished for better collective security. But then you start your critique at the point of protest, instead of the catalyst.

What about the black bodies sent to the morgue by police officers? That is an aggression. Of course the response to THAT violence is disproportionate - the social contract, remember? People give up pieces of their own freedom for the collective security of others. The social contract is failing black people. You want black people to peacefully protest against a system that treats them as less than human. When they peacefully protest things like the national anthem at football games, people like you tell them that a football game is not the right avenue. When they peacefully protest in the streets, you tell them that protests are useless. When they fight back against an authoritarian power, you chide them for violence. Where is your criticism of the police?

You spend countless words, posts, breaths talking about the violent protests. You spend one sentence talking about the death of a black man at the hands of police. Look at your own comments - "police killing black people is bad, but don't destroy property". It's not "the destruction of property is bad, but the police need to stop killing black people". DESTRUCTION OF LIFE IS WORSE THAN DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY! You talk about building something worth defending, and maybe then people will understand. How are black people supposed to build something worth defending when our society does not even treat black people as equal human beings? How are black people supposed to build something worth defending when prosecutors arrest and charge black people at a higher rate for the same crimes as white people? How are black people supposed to build something worth defending when their votes are suppressed? When institutional racism in the form of redlining, voting laws, lending, justice, etc retard black peoples' ability to build something worth defending?

You sit on a mountain of white privilege. You and I, and all white Americans, have profited and succeeded off a racist system. The very least you can do is recognize the position we are in, and use that position to push for positive change. Instead, you are choosing to back that racist system, and use your white privilege to scold those black people. "Why can't you just peacefully protest"?

It's nice to know you're thinking about me when I'm not here.

Here's the fundamental disconnect, ken. Time = money. I mean this in a literal sense. When I look at my car, I see a grille, headlights, an engine etc. but I also see the thousands of hours of labor, weeks of my life, that I am trading for it. When I look at a business, and yes, even a faceless corporate business, I see the lives of dozens, hundreds or thousands of people who have expended effort to build those businesses. Is burning down a business that took a lifetime to build the same as a life being lost? No, but it's really fucking close.

I want black people to have the same experience with the criminal justice system that I do. I truly want that. I don't see them as an incorrigible lot destined to fill our jails. I'm fully aware that they've had a rough time in this country, but not everything can be blamed on systemic racism or slavery. You want me to admit my privilege? Sure, i'll do that. I'm glad that I don't have to worry about getting pulled over excessively or getting dirty looks when I walk down the street. The times when I've been in the minority and have experienced it directed at me have made me very uncomfortable. I would hate to have to live like that 24/7.

And most of my ire is not directed at the black protesters. From what I've seen on TV, they've generally been the most peaceable and law abiding. It's the white 20 somethings and teenagers that I'm condemning. They're all out there trying to fuck shit up without a care in the world. They're bored, and it's fun to burn stuff. Fuck them. They've completely overshadowed what should've been a talk about the criminal justice system and instead made it about themselves. You wanna talk about white privilege? Start with them.

as jay is mindlessly repeating, trump is casually mixing and blurring rioters with protestors. the right to protest peacefully without being tear-gassed is first amendment. it's the core of american civic life. trump demeaning them, calumniating them and threatening them with the military is just about the most tyrannical rhetoric imaginable. and people like jay are totally fine with it. the 'fiercely independent libertarians', to boot. you'd think they would have freedom uppermost tin their minds. nope.

RTHKI wrote:

The right and police are casually ignoring the line between rioting and protesting. They'll suck a cop off as long as they can make the left look bad.
something something the left does the same with communist dictators

Conservative forums started against the cops but now that protest started it's just calling protesters rioters and complaining about democrat politicians.

All of the libertarian reddit subs are totally against the protesters and support the military putting down the protest. They were against the tyranny of having to wear a mask outside but are okay with the government shooting protesters as if we are Iran or China.

Time and again Libertarians turn out to be fakes only interested in not paying taxes. Libertarian hypocrisy is rivaled only by Evangelicals.

this old man i was talking to last night at andrias was saying how stuff like this happens every 25ish yrs or so. i guess it's a generational thing. makes sense tho cause u had the watts riots in the 60's and then the king riots etc.

things will blow over and eventually things will be back to normal. the IG influencers will be back to posting pics with their ass out on vacation in the bahamas instead of the black tile posts. some of the white hipsters rioting will go back to working at starbucks or finish their up arts degree (if they don't rack up too bad of a criminal record) and posting on twitter. black people will start making good trap music again and move on with their lives (i mostly just want smokepurpp to drop his new album but he put that shit on hold). right wingers will go back to complaining about people complaining about global warming and gun rights and shit and mail in voting.

we're all gonna make it. everythings gonna b ok hun

I am not saying there is going to be a revolution though that would make good T.V. Things won't just go back to normal though. We have Great Depression levels of unemployment and schools are cancelled. People literally have nothing to go back to unlike in the economy of the 60's and 90's. And the fact that we have a president who is encouraging using the military to suppress protestors is more than unusual.

At the very least things are going to get worse before they get better.

We also still have a pandemic which is going to start dropping protestors, police, and their families in 2 weeks. This season of America didn't drop that storyline.